Contraception - a discussion

[HUGGY]

The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.

Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?

Where is the morality when disease is spread?

Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?

The Catholic Church is not a moral enterprise. It is a criminal enterprise. They oppose birth control solely for the purpose of creating more Catholics. They have been perpetrating a fraud since inception by promising a wonderful afterlife if you give everything to them in this life. That's called fraud. Fraud is a criminal activity.

 

[BluePhantom]

You know what I find funny about the whole argument of Catholics and birth control. The bible doesn't say a damn thing about it one way or the other. Not using birth control was probably dreamed up by a couple of guys in the Vatican that thought it would be a good way to fill pews. It has no basis in the christian faith.

This is basically correct. Many will say it comes from the verse "It's better to cast your seed in the belly of a whore than to spill it upon the road" but contrary to popular belief that's nowhere in the Bible. Read from the first page to the last page in whatever version you wish and you won't find it anywhere. Now there are stories that have been interpreted as saying something similar but in reality it's a misunderstanding of ancient culture.

"According to Ancient Near Eastern culture, it would have been the responsibility of Onan to impregnate his dead brother's wife that his brother's line might continue. Selfishly, Onan did not wish any of his offspring to bear any name other than his own; and so while he did, in fact, take up the responsibility of sexual relations with his brother's wife, he would not ejaculate inside her but instead practiced the withdrawal method of birth control. God punished Onan for his wickedness and greed by putting him to death (and not, as is popularly believed, for masturbating). The rest of the narrative features the wife, Tamar, posing as a prostitute and seducing Onan's father, Judah. By him, she conceives and bears a son from whom Christ would descend. And God does not strike Judah or punish him in any way in the narrative."

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[earlycuyler]

The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.

Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?

Where is the morality when disease is spread?

Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?

The Churches take on morality is theirs and theirs alone. As for the birth control issue-

Sexual & Reproductive Health Services in Long Beach - Long Beach Health Center - Planned Parenthood

Medicaid accepted.

Medi-Cal accepted.

If you are uninsured, you may qualify for a state-funded program or a lower fee scale. Please bring the following documents:

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Fees for services are based on your household income.

You will not be turned away because of your inability to pay.

We accept the following forms of payment:

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The following insurance plans are accepted at this health center: Aetna, Blue Shield of California and certain HMO plans by referral. If you wish to use your health insurance, please call our appointment line to verify coverage prior to your visit.

Paying for Services - Planned Parenthood - Southern Finger Lakes
PPSFL has many payment options available for patients to receive high quality
services regardless of income level, including no cost or low cost.

All info from the planned parenthood website with link provided. End of inaccessible birth control lie. As to the food and water issue, The Catholic Church alone, has done more to get more food and water to starving people then you have or ever will. Its there right to provide there employees what the will.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Legal codes enforce matters properly defined in philosophy as ethical or moral. "Thou shall not steal" is a moral imperative (or a Commandment from God) and codified in the Penal Code of all states. Government does enforce morality.

Laws against theft and murder were around a long time before Moses wrote them on a rock. Did we forget that Moses was forced to flee Egypt for murdering someone? Theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral but because it infringes on the rights of others.

Of course there were prohibitions against theft and murder before Moses, that was expressed in my post (Moral Imperative).

Can you clarify your remark, specifically, "theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral" with an example of when theft is moral or amoral?

 

[syrenn]

Legal codes enforce matters properly defined in philosophy as ethical or moral. "Thou shall not steal" is a moral imperative (or a Commandment from God) and codified in the Penal Code of all states. Government does enforce morality.

Laws against theft and murder were around a long time before Moses wrote them on a rock. Did we forget that Moses was forced to flee Egypt for murdering someone? Theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral but because it infringes on the rights of others.

Of course there were prohibitions against theft and murder before Moses, that was expressed in my post (Moral Imperative).

Can you clarify your remark, specifically, "theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral" with an example of when theft is moral or amoral?

moral theft... stealing the car keys off a drunk driver.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.

Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?

Where is the morality when disease is spread?

Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?

The Churches take on morality is theirs and theirs alone. As for the birth control issue-

Sexual & Reproductive Health Services in Long Beach - Long Beach Health Center - Planned Parenthood

Medicaid accepted.

Medi-Cal accepted.

If you are uninsured, you may qualify for a state-funded program or a lower fee scale. Please bring the following documents:

photo ID

Fees for services are based on your household income.

You will not be turned away because of your inability to pay.

We accept the following forms of payment:

cash
major credit/debit cards

The following insurance plans are accepted at this health center: Aetna, Blue Shield of California and certain HMO plans by referral. If you wish to use your health insurance, please call our appointment line to verify coverage prior to your visit.

Paying for Services - Planned Parenthood - Southern Finger Lakes
PPSFL has many payment options available for patients to receive high quality
services regardless of income level, including no cost or low cost.

All info from the planned parenthood website with link provided. End of inaccessible birth control lie. As to the food and water issue, The Catholic Church alone, has done more to get more food and water to starving people then you have or ever will. Its there right to provide there employees what the will.

The point I made regarding food and clean water, as well as disease, was focused specifically on current events in Africa. Not only is the Catholic Church opposed to contraception but the Bush Adminsitrtion was opposed to any efforts to protect pregnanat women (and their unborn children) from disease - water born & AIDS - and poor prenatal nutrition.

I have no doubt the Catholic Church engages in good works and I have no problem with their moral objection to abortion. What I object to, strongly, is stupidity. How is preventing a child's conception a moral issue and how is it any business of the church. The answer is quite simple, more births = more Catholics = more power and money.

 

[WillowTree]

So, in your opinion, a church which engages in animal sacrifice or practices polyandry/polygamy should be beyond the reach of law?

There is a difference between disallowing a behavior and forcing someone into a behavior.

So the church is disabllowing its members from using birth control, the punishment for doing so will be the loss of entry into heaven. How is that different than forcing a behavior?

cause the church don't come into your bedroom. idiot. a great many catholics do purchase and use birth control.. they're smarter than obie wan though, they have enough sense not to demand that the church pay for it. boy is he dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[WillowTree]

The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.

Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?

Where is the morality when disease is spread?

Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?

The Churches take on morality is theirs and theirs alone. As for the birth control issue-

Sexual & Reproductive Health Services in Long Beach - Long Beach Health Center - Planned Parenthood

Medicaid accepted.

Medi-Cal accepted.

If you are uninsured, you may qualify for a state-funded program or a lower fee scale. Please bring the following documents:

photo ID

Fees for services are based on your household income.

You will not be turned away because of your inability to pay.

We accept the following forms of payment:

cash
major credit/debit cards

The following insurance plans are accepted at this health center: Aetna, Blue Shield of California and certain HMO plans by referral. If you wish to use your health insurance, please call our appointment line to verify coverage prior to your visit.

Paying for Services - Planned Parenthood - Southern Finger Lakes
PPSFL has many payment options available for patients to receive high quality
services regardless of income level, including no cost or low cost.

All info from the planned parenthood website with link provided. End of inaccessible birth control lie. As to the food and water issue, The Catholic Church alone, has done more to get more food and water to starving people then you have or ever will. Its there right to provide there employees what the will.

The point I made regarding food and clean water, as well as disease, was focused specifically on current events in Africa. Not only is the Catholic Church opposed to contraception but the Bush Adminsitrtion was opposed to any efforts to protect pregnanat women (and their unborn children) from disease - water born & AIDS - and poor prenatal nutrition.

I have no doubt the Catholic Church engages in good works and I have no problem with their moral objection to abortion. What I object to, strongly, is stupidity. How is preventing a child's conception a moral issue and how is it any business of the church. The answer is quite simple, more births = more Catholics = more power and money.

you make it their business when you try to tell them they have to pay for it stupid.. damn how many weeks have we been talking about this issue and you still can't gasp the problem?

 

[Londoner]

Conservatives want to put a government bureaucrat between doctors and women.

Republicans have no problem adding government to the equation when it suits their values. They love Government when they're the ones in charge.

(Attention Republicans: Move the State out of the way. Let people be judged by God)

Republicans want to put their greasy Washington bureaucrat hands inside the wombs of woman. They want to turn women into incubators for their moral agenda.

They don't understand Jesus. He rejected the iron fist of Rome. Jesus opposed the moral authority of the State on behalf of the individual. (You fucking morons - your brand of State imposed religion is the opposite of what Christ stood for. You people are getting your religion from a political party, which has seized American Christianity. It's so sad to see so many useful idiots. Jesus weeps for you)

Conservatives don't care about freedom. They care about using Washington to impose their values on free individuals.

The whole point of the Enlightenment Liberalism that swept over Europe in the 17th century was to give the individual freedom from the moral state.

Republicans are growing the biggest government of all. They make Orwell look optimistic.

Welcome to the American Dark Ages, where the Big Government Washington Church will legislate the free body into a moral prison.

 

[kaz]

i find it much more interesting that the religious right pushes for abortion to become illegal, because life is sacred, while at the same time opposing universal health care.

its extremely hypocritical to say life is sacred when your willing to fight to protect an unborn life, but not willing to fight to protect people who have already been born.

when you force women to have children they may not want, in many cases they become dependent on the state for services such as medicaid, food stamp, welfare, the foster system, etc etc.

Wow, when I think a liberal can't make a more idiotic argument, one of you comes through in a big way. Anyone who thinks murder is illegal is a hypocrite if they won't give the victim healthcare paid for with other people's money through forced confiscation. I mean wow.

I personally don't think abortion is murder, but as an argument, this is just jerking off. It's taking two self serving liberal views and saying anyone who doesn't support them both is a hypocrite. Liberalism: Raising stupid to a whole new level...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

 

[kaz]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Republicans are against women's health because they don't believe government should provide them with free contraception with money confiscated by government guns.

You don't think that's making contraception an issue? Seriously?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.

Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?

Where is the morality when disease is spread?

Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?

The Churches take on morality is theirs and theirs alone. As for the birth control issue-

Sexual & Reproductive Health Services in Long Beach - Long Beach Health Center - Planned Parenthood

Medicaid accepted.

Medi-Cal accepted.

If you are uninsured, you may qualify for a state-funded program or a lower fee scale. Please bring the following documents:

photo ID

Fees for services are based on your household income.

You will not be turned away because of your inability to pay.

We accept the following forms of payment:

cash
major credit/debit cards

The following insurance plans are accepted at this health center: Aetna, Blue Shield of California and certain HMO plans by referral. If you wish to use your health insurance, please call our appointment line to verify coverage prior to your visit.

Paying for Services - Planned Parenthood - Southern Finger Lakes
PPSFL has many payment options available for patients to receive high quality
services regardless of income level, including no cost or low cost.

All info from the planned parenthood website with link provided. End of inaccessible birth control lie. As to the food and water issue, The Catholic Church alone, has done more to get more food and water to starving people then you have or ever will. Its there right to provide there employees what the will.

The point I made regarding food and clean water, as well as disease, was focused specifically on current events in Africa. Not only is the Catholic Church opposed to contraception but the Bush Adminsitrtion was opposed to any efforts to protect pregnanat women (and their unborn children) from disease - water born & AIDS - and poor prenatal nutrition.

I have no doubt the Catholic Church engages in good works and I have no problem with their moral objection to abortion. What I object to, strongly, is stupidity. How is preventing a child's conception a moral issue and how is it any business of the church. The answer is quite simple, more births = more Catholics = more power and money.

What the frack have you been smoking? The Bush administration expanded aid to Africa and threw a lot of money behind the effort to stop the spread of AIDS. He did a lot of things wrong, but that is one thing he got right, you should give yourself a wedgie for lying about it.

By the way, how is a preventing pregnancy not a moral issue? Do you think it was immoral for the US government to sterilize people without their knowledge simply because many progressives thought it was a good idea?

 

[sydji22]

The Catholic church should concern themselves with trying to keep their house in order.
The pervert priests throughout the existence of the church should be of greater concern than what people think about contraception.

Fortunately the Catholic Church has been losing its power, and because of the pervert priest scandals, its money for some time now.

They are nothing more than hypocrites in a big way.

 

[rightwinger]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Ummmmm....it seems they are

Cracked that door a little bit and social conservatives came running through

 

[rightwinger]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Republicans are against women's health because they don't believe government should provide them with free contraception with money confiscated by government guns.

You don't think that's making contraception an issue? Seriously?

All that for a little pill?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Conservatives want to put a government bureaucrat between doctors and women.

Conservatives want no such thing, progressives do. Just like the progressives who claim to be liberals who want entire agencies between them. Unless you start speaking out against the DEA and its practice of monitoring prescriptions and pharmacies or the entire concept of the government telling doctors what services they have to provide, and what they cannot do, you have no ground to stand when you whine about people you disagree with doing things you do not like.

Republicans have no problem adding government to the equation when it suits their values. They love Government when they're the ones in charge.

Which explains why Ron Paul consistently votes for increasing government power.

(Attention Republicans: Move the State out of the way. Let people be judged by God)

Attention idiots, the state is not stopping God from doing anything.

Republicans want to put their greasy Washington bureaucrat hands inside the wombs of woman. They want to turn women into incubators for their moral agenda.

I have found that most heterosexual men like putting their hands, and other parts of their body, in women as often as possible. In fact, I have found the non heterosexual women often like the same thing. If you don't like sex I suggest you stop whinging about the people who do.

They don't understand Jesus. He rejected the iron fist of Rome. Jesus opposed the moral authority of the State on behalf of the individual. (You fucking morons - your brand of State imposed religion is the opposite of what Christ stood for. You people are getting your religion from a political party, which has seized American Christianity. It's so sad to see so many useful idiots. Jesus weeps for you)

I don't get my religion from anyone but God.

Conservatives don't care about freedom. They care about using Washington to impose their values on free individuals.

Unlike the people who want to force free individuals to buy things they don't want or need?

The whole point of the Enlightenment Liberalism that swept over Europe in the 17th century was to give the individual freedom from the moral state.

No it wasn't, but thanks for proving you are ignorant beyond belief.

Republicans are growing the biggest government of all. They make Orwell look optimistic.

And they constantly get help from Democrats.

Welcome to the American Dark Ages, where the Big Government Washington Church will legislate the free body into a moral prison.

Which explains why you support Obamacare exactly how?

 

[kaz]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Ummmmm....it seems they are

Cracked that door a little bit and social conservatives came running through

By opposing Democrats forcing insurance companies to pay for contraceptives...Republicans...made it an issue. I wouldn't have let government pay for your mother's contraceptives with confiscated money, but I'd have written her a check...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Republicans are against women's health because they don't believe government should provide them with free contraception with money confiscated by government guns.

You don't think that's making contraception an issue? Seriously?

Seriously.

 

[kaz]

Conservatives want to put a government bureaucrat between doctors and women

I'm for legal abortion, but I'm against government providing women with free contraception. Is that a mind fuck or what?