Conspiracy theorists...

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Theories' started by Steerpike, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. Steerpike
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    Steerpike VIP Member

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    The most common fallback position for conspiracy theorist to take is that the rest of us just haven't educated ourselves or we'd know what they know.

    That's nonsense in my case, because I like conspiracy theories. I think they're fun. I've read all of the moon landing conspiracy theories, the 9/11 conspiracy theories, the Alex Jones web sites, and god knows how many other theories. I even have a copy of Alex Jones' movie ENDGAME. So it's not a matter of not having heard the theories and seen the "evidence."

    But you've got to have enough sense to sort through the evidence and claims and see what makes sense and what doesn't. There is a lot of mythology behind the 9/11 conspiracy theory claims, but as much as conspiracy theorists want you to read their sources and respond to them, they usually won't do the same in return. For example, if you post the White Paper from Implosion World that debunks the idea of a controlled demolition, conspiracy theorists either fall silent or fall back on tired mantras like "corporate media" and "puppet" or whatever. No substantive rebuttal at all.

    We can see if the conspiracy theorists here are any different. Here's the White Paper:

    http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf

    Conspiracy theories thrive on what is perceived as a lack of explanation from other sources...but instead of jumping to reasonable conclusions, they jump to the most outlandish ones.

    If my garage was damaged six feet above the ground, and I told my neighbor who came over to ask about it, that a guy in a Ford Taurus backed into it, he might well see that my explanation for what happened is missing something. How does he proceed from there?

    If he's not a conspiracy theorist, he might think I'm lying about it because I'm after the insurance money, or maybe I did something stupid when I was drunk and don't want to tell him about it. Or if he didn't think I was a liar he might assume there was something strapped to the roof of the Taurus and that hit my garage, since the car couldn't cause the damage at that height.

    But if my neighbor was a conspiracy theorist, the fact that my explanation didn't jive would be taken as proof that the Illuminati had hidden gold in the walls of my garage long ago and were now trying to get access to it to further their schemes.

    Worse yet, if I showed my neighbor a video I took of the Taurus backing into it with something strapped to the hood, he'd say it was faked and I was covering for the Illuminati.

    With conspiracy theorists, any perceived inconsistency in information right at the outset of an event, or any missing information, is adopted immediately as proof of the conspiracy, and once a certain stance is adopted, no later evidence can dissuade the conspiracy theorists.

    That's why the white paper I posted above won't even cause a conspiracy theorist to bat an eye. Facts and reason aren't important. The only thing important is furtherance of the conspiracy. And the only way a conspiracy theorist can continue to delude himself into adhering to the theory is by convincing himself that he knows something that others don't know, and he is smarter than they are. That's why most of what you get out of conspiracy theorists here and elsewhere are lame comments like "you're controlled by the media" or "you're a puppet," etc. At the end of the day, that's all they've got left.
     
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  2. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    I Bohemian Grove sect of the scientologist branch of the illuminati sent you here to divide and conquer, didn't they?


    I've got my eye on YOU, fella.


    :razz:
     
  3. Steerpike
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    Steerpike VIP Member

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    Nah, the Peoples Front of Judea sent me. Or was it the Popular Front...?
     
  4. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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  5. eots
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    eots no fly list

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    WHAT A STUPID LITTLE STORY.. AND YOUR WHITE PAPER LINK DOESNT WORK

    Its intresting tha these myopic conspiracy theory types include fighter piolets ,top level cia.fbi and milatery intel agents ,heads of nuclear programs
    nassa programs.. etc etc

    http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
    Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: http://www.pogo.org/


    "[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. …

    Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. …

    The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ...

    The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. ...

    We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand. We stand ready to do our part." http://www.pogo.org/


    Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CAA.


    John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.18-year FBI career.


    Mark Conrad, JD – Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations. Former Federal Sky Marshall. 27-year U.S. Customs career. Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents. Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Troy University.


    Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.


    Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. (See also individual statement above.)


    Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI. (See also individual statement above.)


    Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA. Retired Navy SEAL. (See also individual statement above.)


    David Forbes – Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard. Over 30 years experience in law enforcement, commercial and industrial security-related risk management, and service sector business management. Currently Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analyst, BoydForbes, Inc.


    Melvin A. Goodman – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976. Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004. Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations. (See also individual statement above.)


    Mark Graf – Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy. Former Chairman of the Rocky Flats (DOE) Physical Security Systems Working Group from 1990 through 1995.


    Gilbert M. Graham – Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


    Diane Kleiman – Former Special Agent, US Customs.


    Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran. (See also individual statement above.)


    Lynne A. Larkin – Former CIA Operations Officer. Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.


    David MacMichael, PhD – Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.


    Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. (See also individual statement above.)


    Theodore J. Pahle – Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency. His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence. He is a Middle East and Latin American operations specialist. Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as a contract instructor.


    Behrooz Sarshar – Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.


    Brian F. Sullivan – Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA. Retired Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police.


    Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) – Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics – Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. 24-year Navy career in the fields of aviation and counterterrorism. Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and counterterrorism.


    Jane A. Turner – Retired Special Agent, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


    John B. Vincent – Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. 27-year FBI career.


    Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD – Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.


    Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves. She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia. She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan. She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001. One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003. (See also individual statement above.)


    Matthew J. Zipoli – Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE. Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory



    U.S. FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS



    Aug. 21, 2007: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation
    PDF Version Article on OpEdNews

    Summary: James Quintiere, Ph.D., former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division, called for an independent review of the World Trade Center Twin Tower collapse investigation. "I wish that there would be a peer review of this," he said, referring to the NIST investigation. "I think all the records that NIST has assembled should be archived. I would really like to see someone else take a look at what they've done; both structurally and from a fire point of view. ... I think the official conclusion that NIST arrived at is questionable."
     
  6. LOki
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    LOki The Yaweh of Mischief

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    Works for me.

    Maybe the internets thinks you can't handle the truth. :cool:
     
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  7. eots
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    eots no fly list

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    or maybe its been replaced with a working link
     
  8. Steerpike
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    Steerpike VIP Member

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    Works fine for me on two different computers. Do you have a PDF reader installed?
     
  9. Steerpike
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    Steerpike VIP Member

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    No I tried it right after I posted it to make sure it worked. Who knows, maybe it was down for a little while.
     
  10. eots
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    eots no fly list

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    I LOOKED AT YOUR SITE...no wonder the response is puppet ..its basically a rehash of the hears/popular mechanics propaganda piece that omits key evidence and witness testimony that quotes nist and 911 commission reports that have since been denounced by those involved in these investigations with no mention of this fact...compared to the experience expertise and credibility of those featured at patriots question 911..its a cartoonish joke
    and you have presented nothing that would diminish the opinions they represent...and clearly your little fantasy of the conspiracy theorist is wholly inaccurate there is no denying the intelligence ,skill .research ability, rational thinking and mental stability required to take the positions and responsibility these patriots have
     

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