Compassion For The Cruel????

[Compost]

The previous teaching of the Church was that capital punishment is justified in certain situations. That made sense to me. Think Ted Bundy. He killed a bunch a women. He was caught. He escaped. He killed again. Arguably putting him to death saved the lives of who knows how many.

Therefore, it is difficult to go from that belief to what Francis is saying. But what if Francis is right? I'm not crazy about the notion of right and wrong evolving. That's a slippery slope. Still, it seems to me that the idea of killing someone or not killing them is worth thinking and praying about before deciding if I agree with John Paul II or Francis.

 

[irosie91]

The previous teaching of the Church was that capital punishment is justified in certain situations. That made sense to me. Think Ted Bundy. He killed a bunch a women. He was caught. He escaped. He killed again. Arguably putting him to death saved the lives of who knows how many.

Therefore, it is difficult to go from that belief to what Francis is saying. But what if Francis is right? I'm not crazy about the notion of right and wrong evolving. That's a slippery slope. Still, it seems to me that the idea of killing someone or not killing them is worth thinking and praying about before deciding if I agree with John Paul II or Francis.

is anyone interested on the muslim take on "TURN THE CHEEK" ? I learned all about it DECADES ago. In the standard Islamic take on
"TURN THE CHEEK"----that adage PROVES that the New Testament is
a GROSS FRAUD----because no REAL PROPHET----would come up with
such an idiotic idea. Rejoice-----muslims do accept Jesus as a REAL
PROPHET-----but you guys got him all screwed up-- (the magical wedding
wine is another PROOF)

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pope Francis….racing to keep up with mainline Protestant embrace of Marxism:

In the early Twenties the Communist Party made considerable gains in its program to infiltrate the churches.
This effort was led by such prominent "American" clergymen as Harry F. Ward ( "one of the leading collaborators of, and apologists for, the Soviet Union." ...), Jerome Davis, William B. Spofford, and Albert Rhys Williams. at the 1942 convention of the Federal Council of Churches called for: Ultimately, "a world government of delegated powers." Complete abandonment of U.S. isolationism. Strong immediate limitations on national sovereignty. International control of all armies and navies. A universal system of money.... Worldwide freedom of immigration. Progressive elimination of all tariff and quota restrictions on world trade .... A "democratically controlled" international bank .... http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue07/apostasy.htm




The Social Gospel enthusiasts switched the aim from labor rights to attacks on the “profit motive,” …capitalism.

“The church, therefore, in the opinion of the federation, must accept
the Marxist point of view…
The federation, therefore, wants the religious leaders to preach a religious creed, not based upon the Bible and in defense of the American way of life, but one that is based upon the atheistic foundations of the philosophy of Marx. The federation wants the ministers to declare their judgment against the social economic system under which Americans live and prosper today in favor of the Socialist system, which in Russia and the satellite countries has brought the peoples.”
Read the eBook Investigation of Communist activities in the New York City area. Hearings (Volume pt. 5-6, pp. 1969-2143) by United States. Congress. House. Committee on Un-Am online for free (page 22 of 24)\


100 million slaughtered....no big deal.



And, the result of embracing Marxism???
The percentage of Americans who attend and belong to a church has remained constant for over 70 years. But predominantly liberal mainline Protestant denominations have lost members for over 50 years. “From 1960 to 1988, mainline church membership declined from 31 million to 25 million, then fell to 21 million in 2005.[6][7] Today, they are a minority among American Protestants, claiming approximately 15 percent of American adults among their adherents.[8]” Mainline Protestant - Wikipedia





Catholics should be wary of this Pope.


Looking forward to white smoke from the Vatican.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. Does the pronouncement of Pope Francis mean that Jesus revoked the Old Testament rules….or does it mean that the Pope will say anything to burnish his Leftist creds?



Begin with this fact: the Old Testament clearly endorses capital punishment. I’ll prove it later….but accept it here. Now, if a Christian accepts the Trinity, how to believe that Jesus said one thing and his Father quite a different thing?

“In Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus taught, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished."

Just a few verses later, He extends the prohibition against murder to hatred and condemns haters to "the hell of fire" (v. 22), which is strange talk for someone who opposes capital punishment.



If Jesus elsewhere opposes capital punishment, then He is not only contradicting the Father, but even His own words.

[Here is Jesus] quoting the Old Testament, "For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,' and ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death'" (Matthew 15:4).

And, “for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."


Far from advocating pacifism, as this passage is often misused to do, Jesus here teaches Peter that using the sword (for murder) will only get the sword used against him (for execution).”
Did Jesus Support Capital Punishment?




"If no crime deserves the death penalty, then it is hard to see why it was fitting that Christ be put to death for our sins…." Professor Michael Pakaluk




Now....along comes the 'Punk Pink Pope,' Francis.....with this:
Francis, states: “ it is immoral to execute any murderer -- no matter how heinous the murder, no matter how many innocents he has murdered, no matter how incontrovertible the proof of guilt -- is an expression of emotion, not of reason or natural law or Christian theology or biblical theology.”


Seems to be starting his own franchise of Christianity.

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. “The Pope also writes that no matter how serious the crime that has been committed, "the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person."

…isn't every punishment an attack on the dignity of the punished? Of course it is, which is why progressives ultimately oppose all punishment, equating it with vengeance.” Pope Francis Rewrites Catholicism ... and the Bible

Pope Francis’ progressive interpretation of the Bible.

For Progressives, there is no 'evil,' so, no matter its iteration......it need not be punished.



11. Progressive judicial failure:
“Illinois has a crime problem, especially in Chicago. Unfortunately for the good people in the Land of Lincoln, criminals have no fear of the criminal justice system. Bad guys know Illinois practices “catch and release.” Crime Under Illinois' "Catch and Release" Justice System - The Truth About Guns

Last week: “Weekend toll: 71 shot — 12 fatally — in Chicago gun violence” Weekend toll: 71 shot — 12 fatally — in Chicago gun violence

That’s the Pope Francis System….

 

[irosie91]

Pope Francis….racing to keep up with mainline Protestant embrace of Marxism:

In the early Twenties the Communist Party made considerable gains in its program to infiltrate the churches.
This effort was led by such prominent "American" clergymen as Harry F. Ward ( "one of the leading collaborators of, and apologists for, the Soviet Union." ...), Jerome Davis, William B. Spofford, and Albert Rhys Williams. at the 1942 convention of the Federal Council of Churches called for: Ultimately, "a world government of delegated powers." Complete abandonment of U.S. isolationism. Strong immediate limitations on national sovereignty. International control of all armies and navies. A universal system of money.... Worldwide freedom of immigration. Progressive elimination of all tariff and quota restrictions on world trade .... A "democratically controlled" international bank .... http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue07/apostasy.htm




The Social Gospel enthusiasts switched the aim from labor rights to attacks on the “profit motive,” …capitalism.

“The church, therefore, in the opinion of the federation, must accept
the Marxist point of view…
The federation, therefore, wants the religious leaders to preach a religious creed, not based upon the Bible and in defense of the American way of life, but one that is based upon the atheistic foundations of the philosophy of Marx. The federation wants the ministers to declare their judgment against the social economic system under which Americans live and prosper today in favor of the Socialist system, which in Russia and the satellite countries has brought the peoples.”
Read the eBook Investigation of Communist activities in the New York City area. Hearings (Volume pt. 5-6, pp. 1969-2143) by United States. Congress. House. Committee on Un-Am online for free (page 22 of 24)\


100 million slaughtered....no big deal.



And, the result of embracing Marxism???
The percentage of Americans who attend and belong to a church has remained constant for over 70 years. But predominantly liberal mainline Protestant denominations have lost members for over 50 years. “From 1960 to 1988, mainline church membership declined from 31 million to 25 million, then fell to 21 million in 2005.[6][7] Today, they are a minority among American Protestants, claiming approximately 15 percent of American adults among their adherents.[8]” Mainline Protestant - Wikipedia





Catholics should be wary of this Pope.


Looking forward to white smoke from the Vatican.

^^^^^^^^SO TRUE

 

[irosie91]

9. Does the pronouncement of Pope Francis mean that Jesus revoked the Old Testament rules….or does it mean that the Pope will say anything to burnish his Leftist creds?



Begin with this fact: the Old Testament clearly endorses capital punishment. I’ll prove it later….but accept it here. Now, if a Christian accepts the Trinity, how to believe that Jesus said one thing and his Father quite a different thing?

“In Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus taught, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished."

Just a few verses later, He extends the prohibition against murder to hatred and condemns haters to "the hell of fire" (v. 22), which is strange talk for someone who opposes capital punishment.



If Jesus elsewhere opposes capital punishment, then He is not only contradicting the Father, but even His own words.

[Here is Jesus] quoting the Old Testament, "For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,' and ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death'" (Matthew 15:4).

And, “for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."


Far from advocating pacifism, as this passage is often misused to do, Jesus here teaches Peter that using the sword (for murder) will only get the sword used against him (for execution).”
Did Jesus Support Capital Punishment?




"If no crime deserves the death penalty, then it is hard to see why it was fitting that Christ be put to death for our sins…." Professor Michael Pakaluk




Now....along comes the 'Punk Pink Pope,' Francis.....with this:
Francis, states: “ it is immoral to execute any murderer -- no matter how heinous the murder, no matter how many innocents he has murdered, no matter how incontrovertible the proof of guilt -- is an expression of emotion, not of reason or natural law or Christian theology or biblical theology.”


Seems to be starting his own franchise of Christianity.

for the record-----BIBLICALLY---in order for a charge of MURDER to
be brought against a person-----HATRED must be a component in
the crime. Killing without hatred is called "manslaughter" and is
not a capital crime. This idea is a DEPARTURE from Babylonian
law which------depending on one's SOCIAL standing could render
a person who kills UNINTENTIONALLY-----guilty of a capital crime.
The US gets its MURDER definition from the OT (murder requires
MENS REA or, at least accomplished in the course of enacting a
felony---sorta an embellishement)

 

[PoliticalChic]

12. The death penalty “is fundamental to biblical morality. The injunction of putting murderers to death is the only law found in each one of the first five books of the Bible (the Torah)” Pope Francis Rewrites Catholicism ... and the Bible




13.Genesis 9:6 prescribed the death penalty for murder when it said that if a man “shed the blood” of another man, by man must his blood be shed. The only law repeated in all five of the books of the old testament.
The death penalty is a value, values are eternal, as opposed to customs or traditions, such as stoning for adultery.


Exodus 21:12-14

Leviticus 24:17 and 21

Numbers 35:16-18 and Numbers 35:31

Deuteronomy 19:11-13



There is no repudiation of these passages in the New Testament.

On the contrary,
Jesus taught, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished."
Matthew 5:17-18





14.“To add insult to injury, well-intentioned Christians will often attempt to comfort the families of murder victims by suggesting that “God works in mysterious ways” as if He were somehow responsible for allowing the murder to occur.

...God has clearly revealed that He has made man responsible for the righteous execution of judgment. Therefore God is not at fault for man’s failure to obey His Law that then results in the growth of criminal behavior and the enormous volume of human suffering it leaves in its wake."
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=223#null




Put that in your pipe, Francis the Fraud.

 

[PoliticalChic]

15. Dennis Prager:

“…there are a lot of people who desire to show compassion and mercy to the cruel. There is an uproar once again against capital punishment. And it’s an absolute argument for many. By that I mean, they argue no person should ever be executed – regardless of their behavior.

Those who are kind to the cruel, in the end will be cruel to the kind.

There is appropriate kindness and inappropriate kindness. There is appropriate vengeance and inappropriate vengeance. It depends on context. Once again… Context matters. And values matter!



If your values are along the lines that people are not responsible for their behavior, then therefore you should also think they should not be punished for them.

Or if you think punishment does nothing to deter undesirable behavior, then you are likely to act with kindness where punishment would have otherwise taken place.

I find that people who think this way have a hard time in general with the concepts surrounding accountability. They tend to focus on their “rights”, or to others “rights” – rather than on people’s obligations.

These concepts are not just academic. It spills over into nearly all aspects of life.” UI 050: Compassion for the Cruel? - Ultimate Issues: Life | God | Values : Inspired By The Wisdom of Dennis Prager



Pope Francis never learned these lessons.

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. “After 2,000 years of teaching that a moral use of capital punishment for murder is consistent with Catholic teaching, the pope announced that the catechism, the church fathers and St. Thomas Aquinas, among the other great Catholic theologians, were all wrong.

… remaking Catholicism in the image of leftism, just as mainstream Protestant leaders have been rendering much of mainstream Protestantism a branch of leftism, and non-Orthodox Jewish clergy and lay leaders have been rendering most non-Orthodox synagogues and lay institutions left-wing organizations.

… Pope Francis wrote, "today capital punishment is unacceptable, however serious the condemned's crime may have been."

Unacceptable? To whom? It is acceptable to about half of American Catholics and about half of the American people. But it is unacceptable to the elites of our time, the people who have the most contempt for Catholicism and every other Bible-based religion.” Pope Francis Rewrites Catholicism ... and the Bible




"This is a departure from what the document, approved under Pope John Paul II in 1992, says on the matter: “Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.”
Pope Francis: Death penalty is definitely and completely "inadmissible under any circumstances"



Clearly, one of the Popes is fallible.

"Trump Admin. Takes Federal Death Penalty to Supreme Court

The Trump administration is asking the Supreme Court to reinstate the federal death penalty.

...asking justices to permit the execution of men who, the government says, have committed "crimes of staggering brutality."

It further insisted that continued delay would "undermine [the] retributive and deterrent functions of the death penalty," an argument that the Court's conservatives have made in past.

It was this same concern for swift and certain justice that animated Attorney General William Barr's reinstatement of the federal death penalty in July. He instructed the Bureau of Prisons to prepare to execute five convicted murderers."

Trump Admin. Takes Federal Death Penalty to Supreme Court - Washington Free Beacon

 

[luchitociencia]

I don't know what is the fuss about what the Pope says.

In most countries Catholics are not fanatic people and neither keep their doctrine as it should be. For them is enough an image of the "Virgin" or a crucifix on their wall and they can cheat on their spouses, get drunk, play cards, steal, and more without problems.

Only small groups of Christians truly follow their faith, and they will accept the words of the Pope without questioning. But the rest of Catholics won't care at all. The majority of them feel they are Catholics solely because their parents took them to a church when they were infants to get baptized.

About criminals who receive jail sentences rather than capital punishment, this is also about the secular rules of the land, not so the religious beliefs. Countries which are theocratic, they might send you to death just by carrying lots of illegal drugs in your car trunk. Lol.

Religion still have influence in democratic governments because the authorities might have religious background of belief, however, the Christian position opposing capital punishment is clearly a misinterpretation of the words of the Messiah.