Colonialism v. Immigration v. National Borders v. Compassion – What’s the Solution?

JBG

Liberal democrat
Jan 8, 2012
400
242
193
New York City area
The 1700's and the 1800's were the high-water marks for open immigration, and the expansion of European colonial empires. Motivated, entrepreneurial people left Europe and to a lesser extent Asia in droves for the New World countries of the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. As thinly populated (due to smallpox's effect on the native population) opened for settlement and trans-oceanic travel became routine the people came. The new worlds had little to offer other than land and opportunity. There were few objections because the migrations didn't cost much to the host countries. And they gained a source of cheap labor.

Colonialism was spurred by opportunities to import valued items, as well as, unfortunately, slave labor. People rationalized colonialism as improving the lot of natives. Christianity was to solve the problems of the world. In fact, it rationalized exploitation and racism. Conceding that, however, the living conditions of people who were not tribal chiefs or royalty was deplorable. When the colonial system went "bust" in the post WW II era, many, aided by air and fast ocean travel wanted to come. And the West had a high standard of living, as well as a welfare "safety net."

Pre-Congress of Vienna, and post 1914 life in Europe was a mess. What is now the "Third World" was always a mess but its people had no access to or knowledge of the West. Now, the U.S., Europe, Australia and Israel are beleaguered by the waves of people who want something better. However, by and large, they lack the education and/or work ethic needed to succeed in 21st Century society.

"Compassion" dictates throwing open the gates. Common sense dictates ensuring that the influx is manageable and that we get the best people. This, unfortunately, entails policies that most thinking people consider heartless. The tension between people who emphasize "heart" and those who emphasize "head" is enormous and divides people from their friends and colleagues.

Independence in the 1950's and 1960's has come with large amounts of aid. And private help. Think "We Are the World." And the "world" has nothing to show for it. Taxpayers in the more affluent countries cannot be expected to open their homes, hands and hearts endlessly. Perhaps the way to go is large-scale international aid, administered by the West. Sort of like a Peace Corp. on a large scale. We cannot shirk our moral duties to the world. However, for obvious reasons, in doing this we cannot respect the right of kleptocratic leaders to "self-determination."
 
The immigrants who come here don't think they are immigrants but the rightful owners of this land who were wrongfully dispossessed
 
The 1700's and the 1800's were the high-water marks for open immigration, and the expansion of European colonial empires. Motivated, entrepreneurial people left Europe and to a lesser extent Asia in droves for the New World countries of the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. As thinly populated (due to smallpox's effect on the native population) opened for settlement and trans-oceanic travel became routine the people came. The new worlds had little to offer other than land and opportunity. There were few objections because the migrations didn't cost much to the host countries. And they gained a source of cheap labor.

Colonialism was spurred by opportunities to import valued items, as well as, unfortunately, slave labor. People rationalized colonialism as improving the lot of natives. Christianity was to solve the problems of the world. In fact, it rationalized exploitation and racism. Conceding that, however, the living conditions of people who were not tribal chiefs or royalty was deplorable. When the colonial system went "bust" in the post WW II era, many, aided by air and fast ocean travel wanted to come. And the West had a high standard of living, as well as a welfare "safety net."

Pre-Congress of Vienna, and post 1914 life in Europe was a mess. What is now the "Third World" was always a mess but its people had no access to or knowledge of the West. Now, the U.S., Europe, Australia and Israel are beleaguered by the waves of people who want something better. However, by and large, they lack the education and/or work ethic needed to succeed in 21st Century society.

"Compassion" dictates throwing open the gates. Common sense dictates ensuring that the influx is manageable and that we get the best people. This, unfortunately, entails policies that most thinking people consider heartless. The tension between people who emphasize "heart" and those who emphasize "head" is enormous and divides people from their friends and colleagues.

Independence in the 1950's and 1960's has come with large amounts of aid. And private help. Think "We Are the World." And the "world" has nothing to show for it. Taxpayers in the more affluent countries cannot be expected to open their homes, hands and hearts endlessly. Perhaps the way to go is large-scale international aid, administered by the West. Sort of like a Peace Corp. on a large scale. We cannot shirk our moral duties to the world. However, for obvious reasons, in doing this we cannot respect the right of kleptocratic leaders to "self-determination."

The best way would be for countries like the US to realize that smaller poorer countries need help.

Look at the EU. They managed to take poor post-Communist countries and make them richer countries by actually helping them.

The US did it with Japan, South Korea, Germany and the like.

The current view is that you should fuck over your neighbors and then pretend that this will somehow make your country richer because..... because.... I don't know.
 
The 1700's and the 1800's were the high-water marks for open immigration, and the expansion of European colonial empires. Motivated, entrepreneurial people left Europe and to a lesser extent Asia in droves for the New World countries of the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. As thinly populated (due to smallpox's effect on the native population) opened for settlement and trans-oceanic travel became routine the people came. The new worlds had little to offer other than land and opportunity. There were few objections because the migrations didn't cost much to the host countries. And they gained a source of cheap labor.

Colonialism was spurred by opportunities to import valued items, as well as, unfortunately, slave labor. People rationalized colonialism as improving the lot of natives. Christianity was to solve the problems of the world. In fact, it rationalized exploitation and racism. Conceding that, however, the living conditions of people who were not tribal chiefs or royalty was deplorable. When the colonial system went "bust" in the post WW II era, many, aided by air and fast ocean travel wanted to come. And the West had a high standard of living, as well as a welfare "safety net."

Pre-Congress of Vienna, and post 1914 life in Europe was a mess. What is now the "Third World" was always a mess but its people had no access to or knowledge of the West. Now, the U.S., Europe, Australia and Israel are beleaguered by the waves of people who want something better. However, by and large, they lack the education and/or work ethic needed to succeed in 21st Century society.

"Compassion" dictates throwing open the gates. Common sense dictates ensuring that the influx is manageable and that we get the best people. This, unfortunately, entails policies that most thinking people consider heartless. The tension between people who emphasize "heart" and those who emphasize "head" is enormous and divides people from their friends and colleagues.

Independence in the 1950's and 1960's has come with large amounts of aid. And private help. Think "We Are the World." And the "world" has nothing to show for it. Taxpayers in the more affluent countries cannot be expected to open their homes, hands and hearts endlessly. Perhaps the way to go is large-scale international aid, administered by the West. Sort of like a Peace Corp. on a large scale. We cannot shirk our moral duties to the world. However, for obvious reasons, in doing this we cannot respect the right of kleptocratic leaders to "self-determination."
On an individual level it is a good thing to demonstrate compassion. Americans who have been fortunate should give back in some way to less fortunate people IMO. I do that personally and recommend volunteering and giving back. On a government level it is very dangerous to set policy based on compassion because things quickly spin out of control as the needy pour into the country overwhelming health, housing, education, and welfare services. US citizens especially at the low end would suffer the most. They would understandably get angry as non-citizens gain benefits as they lose theirs.

If we were to abolish ICE, open the borders and MOST IMPORTANTLY send the message that the welcome mat is out to the desperate, then get ready for the immigrant tsunami and the end of America as we know it. For the most part, these are not the best and brightest. These are the poor, uneducated, unhealthy outcasts of third world countries who will be having large families and consuming government resources their entire lives.

No I'm not a Racist, I just call it like it is. That is an accurate description of the vast majority of who is showing up at the border now. Democrats see a burgeoning voter base and an endless grip on power. Anyone with common sense sees the end of America.
 
What’s the Solution?

enforce the laws on the books and stop creating new ones.

or at least prove you can enforce current immigration laws BEFORE creating new ones.
 
Every other developed country in the world has strict immigration laws. Why shouldn't the U.S.?
 
What’s the Solution?

enforce the laws on the books and stop creating new ones.

or at least prove you can enforce current immigration laws BEFORE creating new ones.

I agree however the left doesn’t want those laws enforced, they set up sanctuary cities, hinder ICE agents just doing their jobs. The right is wanting to forgo due process and add more laws. We have two diametrically opposing views, the interesting thing is with gun control the left wants more laws and regs and the right wants less restrictions.

There is a happy medium to both issues, however the political atmosphere will not allow for compromise, neither side will give an inch.
 
The 1700's and the 1800's were the high-water marks for open immigration, and the expansion of European colonial empires. Motivated, entrepreneurial people left Europe and to a lesser extent Asia in droves for the New World countries of the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. As thinly populated (due to smallpox's effect on the native population) opened for settlement and trans-oceanic travel became routine the people came. The new worlds had little to offer other than land and opportunity. There were few objections because the migrations didn't cost much to the host countries. And they gained a source of cheap labor.

Colonialism was spurred by opportunities to import valued items, as well as, unfortunately, slave labor. People rationalized colonialism as improving the lot of natives. Christianity was to solve the problems of the world. In fact, it rationalized exploitation and racism. Conceding that, however, the living conditions of people who were not tribal chiefs or royalty was deplorable. When the colonial system went "bust" in the post WW II era, many, aided by air and fast ocean travel wanted to come. And the West had a high standard of living, as well as a welfare "safety net."

Pre-Congress of Vienna, and post 1914 life in Europe was a mess. What is now the "Third World" was always a mess but its people had no access to or knowledge of the West. Now, the U.S., Europe, Australia and Israel are beleaguered by the waves of people who want something better. However, by and large, they lack the education and/or work ethic needed to succeed in 21st Century society.

"Compassion" dictates throwing open the gates. Common sense dictates ensuring that the influx is manageable and that we get the best people. This, unfortunately, entails policies that most thinking people consider heartless. The tension between people who emphasize "heart" and those who emphasize "head" is enormous and divides people from their friends and colleagues.

Independence in the 1950's and 1960's has come with large amounts of aid. And private help. Think "We Are the World." And the "world" has nothing to show for it. Taxpayers in the more affluent countries cannot be expected to open their homes, hands and hearts endlessly. Perhaps the way to go is large-scale international aid, administered by the West. Sort of like a Peace Corp. on a large scale. We cannot shirk our moral duties to the world. However, for obvious reasons, in doing this we cannot respect the right of kleptocratic leaders to "self-determination."

The best way would be for countries like the US to realize that smaller poorer countries need help.

Look at the EU. They managed to take poor post-Communist countries and make them richer countries by actually helping them.

The US did it with Japan, South Korea, Germany and the like.

The current view is that you should fuck over your neighbors and then pretend that this will somehow make your country richer because..... because.... I don't know.

The US didn't make Japan, South Korea and Germany rich. They made themselves rich. The people there had the right culture for accumulating wealth. Cultures in North Africa and the Middle East have the culture for squandering wealth.
 
What’s the Solution?

enforce the laws on the books and stop creating new ones.

or at least prove you can enforce current immigration laws BEFORE creating new ones.

Surely the solution would be to try and figure out what works within what you consider to be acceptable behavior.

Probably the best solution would be to try and help those countries below to advance economically. A stronger Mexico is a stronger USA.

Just as in 2004 when 8 nations joined the EU, the EU got stronger, Germany got stronger, every nation in the EU got a lot stronger and a lot richer.
 
Independence in the 1950's and 1960's has come with large amounts of aid. And private help. Think "We Are the World." And the "world" has nothing to show for it. Taxpayers in the more affluent countries cannot be expected to open their homes, hands and hearts endlessly. Perhaps the way to go is large-scale international aid, administered by the West. Sort of like a Peace Corp. on a large scale. We cannot shirk our moral duties to the world. However, for obvious reasons, in doing this we cannot respect the right of kleptocratic leaders to "self-determination."

The best way would be for countries like the US to realize that smaller poorer countries need help.

Look at the EU. They managed to take poor post-Communist countries and make them richer countries by actually helping them.

The US did it with Japan, South Korea, Germany and the like.

The current view is that you should fuck over your neighbors and then pretend that this will somehow make your country richer because..... because.... I don't know.
Re-read the last paragraph of my post. I agree with you.
 
Independence in the 1950's and 1960's has come with large amounts of aid. And private help. Think "We Are the World." And the "world" has nothing to show for it. Taxpayers in the more affluent countries cannot be expected to open their homes, hands and hearts endlessly. Perhaps the way to go is large-scale international aid, administered by the West. Sort of like a Peace Corp. on a large scale. We cannot shirk our moral duties to the world. However, for obvious reasons, in doing this we cannot respect the right of kleptocratic leaders to "self-determination."

The best way would be for countries like the US to realize that smaller poorer countries need help.

Look at the EU. They managed to take poor post-Communist countries and make them richer countries by actually helping them.

The US did it with Japan, South Korea, Germany and the like.

The current view is that you should fuck over your neighbors and then pretend that this will somehow make your country richer because..... because.... I don't know.
Re-read the last paragraph of my post. I agree with you.

And I wasn't criticizing what you said, or supporting it, but providing my own opinion on it.
 
The solution is we build shelters for the illegals on every registered democrats' property, beginning with De Niro's property then Michael Moore's.

Problem solved.
 
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The solution is we build shelters for the illegals on every registered democrats' property, beginning with De Niro's property then Michael Moore's.

Problem solved.
We got a great view of Democrat "compassion" when those first busloads of immigrants were dropped off in Martha's Vineyard, didn't we? BHAHAHAHAHA. Obama and the other Elites shipped them out the next day.
 

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