Coal fired plants

[bripat9643]

Using this rule the Obama Administration is in the process of shutting down over 100 coal fired electric generating plants and causing the operating costs of the rest to increase.

Clean Air Mercury Rule | US EPA

Now mind you this is an election year so Kind Obama has ask the EPA to wait till NEXT year to actually close the plants and increase 60 percent of the Countries electric bills.

As I mentioned earlier, if you had read your own link, you would have seen the Clean Air Mercury Rule was established in...2005.

Who was President in 2005? Hmmmmm. It's on the tip of my tongue...

It wasn't at the instigation of the Bush Administration. The EPA is a rogue agency that largely operates on its own agenda.

Also, you seem to assume these plants will be shut down and...that's the end of the story. Less power for the masses.

Stupid assumption.

https://www.progress-energy.com/com...ponsibility-report/customers/powersystem.page

In 2009, Progress Energy announced our plan to permanently shut down 11 coal-fired units, totaling nearly 1,500 MW, at four sites in North Carolina by the end of 2017. These units are our remaining coal-fired power plants in the state that do not have flue-gas desulfurization controls (scrubbers). The plan represents about 30 percent of the company’s coal-fired power generation fleet in North Carolina.

And that is where you would have the story end. 1500 MW less power.

Lose 1500 dirty power, gain 2200 cleaner power. Natural gas is the wave of the future. The price has plummeted by more than two thirds in recent years.

Apparently you believe new power plants are free. They cost money, and that means all of Progress Energy's customers will be paying more for electricity. Natural gas is still more expensive than coal, and if we convert all our generating capacity to natural gas, the resource will be consumed that much more quickly

Warmist turds never consider the consequences of their idiotic agenda, ever.

 

[konradv]

Acciedents happen, but the risk is small. It would take 100 light bulbs to equal the amount in one old time thermometer. Also, for valid comparison you'd have to give us figures on fish "accidently" eaten or air "accidently" breathed!

And they've been banning Mercury thermometers for this very reason. So who's telling the truth here? The "Mercury's not a problem in CFLs" crowd or the "Mercury in a thermometer or fish is going to kill you" crowd.

Love your doublethink KommieKonnie.

More mercury comes from cremating the dead than comes from coal fired power plants, but you don't see the warmist cult members campaigning to have the practice of cremation ended.

Gee, another uncited factoid!!! Why should we believe you, if you're too cowardly to tell us your sources?

 

[g5000]

Using this rule the Obama Administration is in the process of shutting down over 100 coal fired electric generating plants and causing the operating costs of the rest to increase.

Clean Air Mercury Rule | US EPA

Now mind you this is an election year so Kind Obama has ask the EPA to wait till NEXT year to actually close the plants and increase 60 percent of the Countries electric bills.

As I mentioned earlier, if you had read your own link, you would have seen the Clean Air Mercury Rule was established in...2005.

Who was President in 2005? Hmmmmm. It's on the tip of my tongue...

It wasn't at the instigation of the Bush Administration. The EPA is a rogue agency that largely operates on its own agenda.

Also, you seem to assume these plants will be shut down and...that's the end of the story. Less power for the masses.

Stupid assumption.

https://www.progress-energy.com/com...ponsibility-report/customers/powersystem.page

In 2009, Progress Energy announced our plan to permanently shut down 11 coal-fired units, totaling nearly 1,500 MW, at four sites in North Carolina by the end of 2017. These units are our remaining coal-fired power plants in the state that do not have flue-gas desulfurization controls (scrubbers). The plan represents about 30 percent of the company’s coal-fired power generation fleet in North Carolina.

And that is where you would have the story end. 1500 MW less power.

Lose 1500 dirty power, gain 2200 cleaner power. Natural gas is the wave of the future. The price has plummeted by more than two thirds in recent years.

Apparently you believe new power plants are free. They cost money, and that means all of Progress Energy's customers will be paying more for electricity. Natural gas is still more expensive than coal, and if we convert all our generating capacity to natural gas, the resource will be consumed that much more quickly

Warmist turds never consider the consequences of their idiotic agenda, ever.

I will address the last comment first, because it is a stupid assumption. You completely undermine yourself when you make shit up about someone.

As for the rest, do you think a 50 year old power plant will last forever? You ever hear of the term "diminishing returns"?

I don't know what Universe you live in, but the one I live in requires new power plants to be built every once in a while.

And I guess you are completely clueless as to the abundance of gas or you would not have made the idiotic "consumed that much more quickly" comment.

 

[konradv]

So, breathing in mercury vapor from a coal fired power plant is bad.

Breathing in mercury vapor from an incinerator is bad.

Breathing in mercury vapor from a broken thermometer is bad.

Eating mercury in fish or other seafood is bad.

Breathing in mercury vapor from a broken CFL is... not bad?

I dunno. I'm just sensing some sort of intellectual incongruity here.

Got trouble reading? Breathing in mercury is always bad. What I was saying is that in normal use, CFLs and thermometers AREN'T bad, but mercury-laced fish IS. Broken CFLs and thermometers equate to spoiled fish, NOT that which someone would eat.

but yet you want potential mercury spills put in every light socket, but remove all mercury thermometers and coal fired plants to prevent any mercury vapors from those.

What mercury spills? You're being more alarmist than you claim environmemtalists are. Thermometers held 100X the mercury found in CFLs and the air from coal-fired plants is impossible to avoid. ONCE AGAIN..., FAIL!!!

 

[Big Fitz]

As I mentioned earlier, if you had read your own link, you would have seen the Clean Air Mercury Rule was established in...2005.

Who was President in 2005? Hmmmmm. It's on the tip of my tongue...

It wasn't at the instigation of the Bush Administration. The EPA is a rogue agency that largely operates on its own agenda.

Also, you seem to assume these plants will be shut down and...that's the end of the story. Less power for the masses.

Stupid assumption.

https://www.progress-energy.com/com...ponsibility-report/customers/powersystem.page



And that is where you would have the story end. 1500 MW less power.

Lose 1500 dirty power, gain 2200 cleaner power. Natural gas is the wave of the future. The price has plummeted by more than two thirds in recent years.

Apparently you believe new power plants are free. They cost money, and that means all of Progress Energy's customers will be paying more for electricity. Natural gas is still more expensive than coal, and if we convert all our generating capacity to natural gas, the resource will be consumed that much more quickly

Warmist turds never consider the consequences of their idiotic agenda, ever.

I will address the last comment first, because it is a stupid assumption. You completely undermine yourself when you make shit up about someone.

As for the rest, do you think a 50 year old power plant will last forever? You ever hear of the term "diminishing returns"?

I don't know what Universe you live in, but the one I live in requires new power plants to be built every once in a while.

And I guess you are completely clueless as to the abundance of gas or you would not have made the idiotic "consumed that much more quickly" comment.

So build new coal and nuclear plants, the two best forms of electrical generation outside of hydro or possibly geothermal.

 

[Big Fitz]

Got trouble reading? Breathing in mercury is always bad. What I was saying is that in normal use, CFLs and thermometers AREN'T bad, but mercury-laced fish IS. Broken CFLs and thermometers equate to spoiled fish, NOT that which someone would eat.

but yet you want potential mercury spills put in every light socket, but remove all mercury thermometers and coal fired plants to prevent any mercury vapors from those.

What mercury spills? You're being more alarmist than you claim environmemtalists are. Thermometers held 100X the mercury found in CFLs and the air from coal-fired plants is impossible to avoid. ONCE AGAIN..., FAIL!!!

Oh I see. You say it is so, therefore it must be.

And as intelligent.

 

[g5000]

Natural gas is still more expensive than coal,

Sounds to me like you have not checked your facts recently. As I said, the price of natural gas has plummetedin recent years: U.S. Natural Gas Prices

Gas
Currently supplies around 15% of the global electricity demand.
Cents/kW-h: 3.9 - 4.4 Cents/kW-h

Coal
Currently supplies around 38% of the global electricity demand.
Cents/kW-h: 4.8 - 5.5 Cents/kW-h

Directory:Cents Per Kilowatt-Hour - PESWiki

 

[g5000]

So build new coal and nuclear plants, the two best forms of electrical generation outside of hydro or possibly geothermal.

Nuclear is by far the most expensive conventional power source. And its price is exceeded in the alternative power source world only by solar.

The problem with alternative energy is capacity. It just does not produce the amount we need, and probably never will.

Gas is the cheapest of coal, gas, and nuclear.

And bripat has been screaming about costs.

But I am not opposed to nuclear power. I used to work in that field.

 

[konradv]

but yet you want potential mercury spills put in every light socket, but remove all mercury thermometers and coal fired plants to prevent any mercury vapors from those.

What mercury spills? You're being more alarmist than you claim environmemtalists are. Thermometers held 100X the mercury found in CFLs and the air from coal-fired plants is impossible to avoid. ONCE AGAIN..., FAIL!!!

Oh I see. You say it is so, therefore it must be.

And as intelligent.

As intelligent? That's damning with faint praise. I'd say "light-years" more intelligent. After all, I'm not the one that can't tell the difference between mercury sealed in a glass bulb vs. mercury in food!!!

 

[g5000]

I see the overwhelming scientific evidence that was asked for which says proximity to coal plants kills people is being conveniently ignored.

 

[bripat9643]

More mercury comes from cremating the dead than comes from coal fired power plants, but you don't see the warmist cult members campaigning to have the practice of cremation ended.

Gee, another uncited factoid!!! Why should we believe you, if you're too cowardly to tell us your sources?

Slight correction: cremation emits about half the amount of mercury that coal fired power plants emit. However, forest fires emit just as much.

Willie Soon and Paul Driessen: The Myth of Killer Mercury - WSJ.com

How do America's coal-burning power plants fit into the picture? They emit an estimated 41-48 tons of mercury per year. But U.S. forest fires emit at least 44 tons per year; cremation of human remains discharges 26 tons; Chinese power plants eject 400 tons; and volcanoes, subsea vents, geysers and other sources spew out 9,000-10,000 additional tons per year.

 

[g5000]

California levelized energy costs for different generation technologies in US dollars per megawatt hour (2007) Advanced Nuclear 067 67 Coal 074 74–88 Gas 087 87–346 Geothermal 067 67 Hydro power 048 48–86 Wind power 060 60 Solar 116 116–312 Biomass 047 47–117 Fuel Cell 086 86–111 Wave Power 611 611

Yep. Only costs up to 300% more than coal. Good trade off.

Three problems with your quote. First, you did not provide source link. But don't worry, I found it: Cost of electricity by source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Second, you cherry picked 2007 figures, despite my repeated statements that gas has dropped in price in recent years.

Third, your quote cites California prices from five years ago, not current national prices. I provided national prices which clearly show natural gas is cheaper.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Another idiot that thinks people have companies just to hire people, and government MUST run the show.

YOU know zero of the founding much less true liberty.

Idiot.

What the fuck are you babbling about you God damned imbecile? Did you even read what I said? Did you absorb too much raisin bran through your asshole? Because that's an awful lot of diarrhea pouring out of your mouth. Obviously I'm not the one who thinks that companies exist just to hire people. I'm not the one who said that as soon as companies have cash on hand, they'll hire more people. Stop being such a hack.

 

[Big Fitz]

What mercury spills? You're being more alarmist than you claim environmemtalists are. Thermometers held 100X the mercury found in CFLs and the air from coal-fired plants is impossible to avoid. ONCE AGAIN..., FAIL!!!

Oh I see. You say it is so, therefore it must be.

And as intelligent.

As intelligent? That's damning with faint praise. I'd say "light-years" more intelligent. After all, I'm not the one that can't tell the difference between mercury sealed in a glass bulb vs. mercury in food!!!

well well... who's altering the comparison?

We're discussing mercury CONSUMED. Eating it or breathing it in makes no difference. I can see why you want to move the goalposts since it's blatant to everyone that you only oppose certain TYPES of mercury pollution that support your ecofascism.

Sealed glass thermometers? banned. CFLs? Forced on the public. Both are sealed till they break, dumbfuck. But only one is a danger to the public, huh?

Nope. Again, no doublethink here.

 

[g5000]

Republican Party platform:

Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Hydropower

Alternate power sources must enter the mainstream. The technology behind solar energy has improved significantly in recent years, and the commercial development of wind power promises major benefits both in costs and in environmental protection. Republicans support these and other alternative energy sources, including geothermal and hydropower, and anticipate technological developments that will increase their economic viability. We therefore advocate a long-term energy tax credit equally applicable to all renewable power sources.

Republicans support measures to modernize the nation’s electricity grid to provide American consumers and businesses with more affordable, reliable power. We will work to unleash innovation so entrepreneurs can develop technologies for a more advanced and robust United States transmission system that meets our growing energy demands.

Clean Coal

Although alternate fuels will shape our energy future, coal – America’s most affordable and abundant energy resource and the source of most of our electricity – remains a strategic national resource that must play a major role in energy independence. We look to innovative technology to transform America’s coal supplies into clean fuels capable of powering motor vehicles and aircraft. We support coal-to-liquid and gasification initiatives, just as we support investment in the development and deployment of carbon capture and storage technologies, which can reduce emissions. We firmly oppose efforts by Democrats to block the construction of new coal-fired power plants. No strategy for reducing energy costs will be viable without a commitment to continued coal production and utilization.

Natural Gas

Natural gas is plentiful in North America, but we can extract more and do a better job of distributing it nationwide to cook our food, heat our homes, and serve as a growing option as a transportation fuel. Both independently and in cooperation with alternative fuels, natural gas will be an essential part of any long-term energy solution. We must ensure it gets to consumers safely and quickly.

 

[bripat9643]

That's the 2008 platform, which I find appalling. It's the product of that numskull John McCain. However, that was long before global warming was exposed as a hoax and a fraud.

Republican Party platform:

Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Hydropower

Alternate power sources must enter the mainstream. The technology behind solar energy has improved significantly in recent years, and the commercial development of wind power promises major benefits both in costs and in environmental protection. Republicans support these and other alternative energy sources, including geothermal and hydropower, and anticipate technological developments that will increase their economic viability. We therefore advocate a long-term energy tax credit equally applicable to all renewable power sources.

Republicans support measures to modernize the nation’s electricity grid to provide American consumers and businesses with more affordable, reliable power. We will work to unleash innovation so entrepreneurs can develop technologies for a more advanced and robust United States transmission system that meets our growing energy demands.

Clean Coal

Although alternate fuels will shape our energy future, coal – America’s most affordable and abundant energy resource and the source of most of our electricity – remains a strategic national resource that must play a major role in energy independence. We look to innovative technology to transform America’s coal supplies into clean fuels capable of powering motor vehicles and aircraft. We support coal-to-liquid and gasification initiatives, just as we support investment in the development and deployment of carbon capture and storage technologies, which can reduce emissions. We firmly oppose efforts by Democrats to block the construction of new coal-fired power plants. No strategy for reducing energy costs will be viable without a commitment to continued coal production and utilization.

Natural Gas

Natural gas is plentiful in North America, but we can extract more and do a better job of distributing it nationwide to cook our food, heat our homes, and serve as a growing option as a transportation fuel. Both independently and in cooperation with alternative fuels, natural gas will be an essential part of any long-term energy solution. We must ensure it gets to consumers safely and quickly.

 

[The T]

Another idiot that thinks people have companies just to hire people, and government MUST run the show.

YOU know zero of the founding much less true liberty.

Idiot.

What the fuck are you babbling about you God damned imbecile? Did you even read what I said? Did you absorb too much raisin bran through your asshole? Because that's an awful lot of diarrhea pouring out of your mouth. Obviously I'm not the one who thinks that companies exist just to hire people. I'm not the one who said that as soon as companies have cash on hand, they'll hire more people. Stop being such a hack.

I don't expect a worthless unthinking sheep as you to think for yourself muchless know squat of the Founders or the founding documents. You prefer to remain a backbencher Statist creep.

 

[bripat9643]

Bump

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Coal plants closing: Why coal plants closing means higher electricity prices - Chicago Tribune

I can't find the original article but it is in one of the older threads, Here is one though that tells us what is coming.

The only thing that's coming, is......Teabaggers (in voluntary-denial) are being.....​

....SUCKERED; one-more-TIME!!!!!​

"The first auction ended with no sale because BLM rejected Peabody’s lowball offer of $0.90 a ton. The winning price in Thursday’s sale? $1.11 per ton.

Again: $1.11 per ton.

The price of a ton of Powder River Basin coal on U.S. spot markets? $9.15 per ton, as of May 11.

The price of a ton of coal exported to China? It averaged $97.28 per ton [PDF] in 2011. It’s now up to $123 per ton.

And exports are only likely to go up."

 

[healthmyths]

Using this rule the Obama Administration is in the process of shutting down over 100 coal fired electric generating plants and causing the operating costs of the rest to increase.

Clean Air Mercury Rule | US EPA

Now mind you this is an election year so Kind Obama has ask the EPA to wait till NEXT year to actually close the plants and increase 60 percent of the Countries electric bills.

The kookaid drinkers are a lost cause.. simply cause they are dummies.. but you independents that helped Obama get elected..
ADMIT IT -- you never expected Obama would:
1) do everything possible to destroy American way of life..
2) Actually called our military "killers" for "killing civilians"
3) Said he wanted to bankrupt electric utilities! (That good for business.. your light bill?)
Obama wants electric utilities to go bankrupt ...HE SAID so!
"So, if somebody wants to build a coal[electric utility] plant, they can it’s just that it will bankrupt them,!"
Obama: We’ll bankrupt any new coal plants « Hot Air

4) Discourages energy independence i.e. telling Brazil "we'll be their best customers"!
5) Very happy to throw away $100 billion a year in Federal/State/local and raise local
property taxes by destroying the industry that pays those taxes!