Coal fired plants

[bripat9643]

Notice that your source refers to "atmospheric sources." The largest source of Mercury is thermal vents at the bottom of the ocean. I haven't noted that environmental wackos like you have proposed that we stop eating fish caught in the ocean.

It would appear you aren't genuinely concerned about Mercury poisoning, just shutting down coal fired power plants.

Awww now a little mercury never hurt anyone.
in my state it is ok to eat one meal of fresh caught fish a month for a healthy adult anyway.

95% of all the Mercury in the environment comes from natural sources, and 80% of the remainder comes from sources outside of the U.S. So what is cutting back on 1% of the Mercury going to do for the environment? That's a great reason to double the cost of electricity for every man, woman and child in this country.

Hey Professor, I'd sure like to know where you get your information from. Rush Limbaugh?

Natural sources, such as volcanoes, are responsible for approximately half of atmospheric mercury emissions. The human-generated half can be divided into the following estimated percentages:

65% from stationary combustion, of which coal-fired power plants are the largest aggregate source (40% of U.S. mercury emissions in 1999). This includes power plants fueled with gas where the mercury has not been removed. Emissions from coal combustion are between one and two orders of magnitude higher than emissions from oil combustion, depending on the country.

11% from gold production. The three largest point sources for mercury emissions in the U.S. are the three largest gold mines. Hydrogeochemical release of mercury from gold-mine tailings has been accounted as a significant source of atmospheric mercury in eastern Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

 

[uscitizen]

Notice that your source refers to "atmospheric sources." The largest source of Mercury is thermal vents at the bottom of the ocean. I haven't noted that environmental wackos like you have proposed that we stop eating fish caught in the ocean.

It would appear you aren't genuinely concerned about Mercury poisoning, just shutting down coal fired power plants.

95% of all the Mercury in the environment comes from natural sources, and 80% of the remainder comes from sources outside of the U.S. So what is cutting back on 1% of the Mercury going to do for the environment? That's a great reason to double the cost of electricity for every man, woman and child in this country.

Hey Professor, I'd sure like to know where you get your information from. Rush Limbaugh?

Natural sources, such as volcanoes, are responsible for approximately half of atmospheric mercury emissions. The human-generated half can be divided into the following estimated percentages:

65% from stationary combustion, of which coal-fired power plants are the largest aggregate source (40% of U.S. mercury emissions in 1999). This includes power plants fueled with gas where the mercury has not been removed. Emissions from coal combustion are between one and two orders of magnitude higher than emissions from oil combustion, depending on the country.

11% from gold production. The three largest point sources for mercury emissions in the U.S. are the three largest gold mines. Hydrogeochemical release of mercury from gold-mine tailings has been accounted as a significant source of atmospheric mercury in eastern Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

Umm there are no volcanic vents in the streams and rivers of the state I live it and yet the fish all have mercury in them.
I guess it flows up the Mississippi river to KY?

 

[skookerasbil]

This is a good thread for identifying those who dont own anything..........sit in front of their PC for 16 hours a day!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

The Republicans are now pro mercury poisoning.

Why am I not surprised?

The most naive mofu on the whole board proves it again............

 

[Steelplate]

Can you imagine this Marxist Macaca cocksucker getting a second term? Imagine the Executive orders he'll put out when he doesn't have to pretend he's an American anymore

Candidate #1 for Biggest racist douche on the board.

I don't think he can take the title away from Yidnar though.

How is calling Obama a Marxist Macaca cocksucker, in any way racist?

Yeah....

Macaca (genus), the macaque, a group of Old World monkey species

 

[bripat9643]

Umm there are no volcanic vents in the streams and rivers of the state I live it and yet the fish all have mercury in them.
I guess it flows up the Mississippi river to KY?

Evidence?

Since you're so concerned about Mercury poisoning, when did you stop eating fish from the ocean?

 

[Old Rocks]

Using this rule the Obama Administration is in the process of shutting down over 100 coal fired electric generating plants and causing the operating costs of the rest to increase.

Clean Air Mercury Rule | US EPA

Now mind you this is an election year so Kind Obama has ask the EPA to wait till NEXT year to actually close the plants and increase 60 percent of the Countries electric bills.

Ah, so nice to have all that mercury in the air. So good for the neurological development of the children of this nation.

We have plenty of alternatives to the coal fired plants. The dirtiest ones should be shut down immediatly. Anyone of them that is grandfathered in on the pre-1975 standards should be shut down. And more stringent regulations applied to the rest of them, until the alternatives are in place to generate the needed power, then they should be shut down.

As we see more and more consequences of the warming of the globe, we will have a choice. A phased out termination of fossil fuel use, or, a decade or so later than the phased out process would have been done, an adrupt and wrenching cessation of the use of fossil fuels.

Given the present idiocy on this issue by so many, we will get the wrenching alternative. And the more severe consequences that go with that extra decade or so of fossil fuel use.

 

[Decepticon]

The gov subsidies the fossil fuel industry at a rate 5 TIMES what renewables get. If renewables got the same subsidies that the fossil fuel industry gets, electricity would be cheaper than what we pay for fossil fuel generated elec. right now.

So, yeah, shutting down old inefficient plants makes sense. This is just one way to do it.

Or perhaps you think we should subsidize the buggy whip industry too?

 

[Old Rocks]

Umm there are no volcanic vents in the streams and rivers of the state I live it and yet the fish all have mercury in them.
I guess it flows up the Mississippi river to KY?

Evidence?

Since you're so concerned about Mercury poisoning, when did you stop eating fish from the ocean?

In this, as everything else, once again you demonstrate what a dumb fuck you are, Pattycake. The information is readily available.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/marine/img/mm_paper.pdf

The key points presented in the following pages of this review are:
1) Methylmercury is a worldwide pollutant originating largely from the burning of fossil
fuels, primarily in the generation of electrical power;2) It’s estimated that should all anthropogenic sources of mercury pollution be
eliminated, it would require more than 50 years for methymercury in fish to return to
pre-industrial levels;
3) Methylmercury is a potent neurotoxin that can cause birth defects, learning
disabilities, blindness, paralysis, loss of muscular control and death;
4) Methylmercury bio-accumulates through the food chain with the primary source of
and risk to human health being the consumption of fish (freshwater and marine);
5) Methylmercury in many freshwater and marine fish has been documented at levels
that exceed those generally agreed upon by federal agencies (EPA and FDA), state
agencies and recently by the National Academy of Sciences (National Research
Council) and methylmercury constitutes a health risk that should be limited or
avoided by man;

 

[uscitizen]

The gov subsidies the fossil fuel industry at a rate 5 TIMES what renewables get. If renewables got the same subsidies that the fossil fuel industry gets, electricity would be cheaper than what we pay for fossil fuel generated elec. right now.

So, yeah, shutting down old inefficient plants makes sense. This is just one way to do it.

Or perhaps you think we should subsidize the buggy whip industry too?

We do, the Amish have religious tax exemptions.

 

[bripat9643]

Ah, so nice to have all that mercury in the air. So good for the neurological development of the children of this nation.

The same morons who claim to be so concerned about mercury poisoning children won't hesitate to feed their kids a nice helping of Salmon or Grouper that was caught in an ocean filled with Mercury.

We have plenty of alternatives to the coal fired plants. The dirtiest ones should be shut down immediatly. Anyone of them that is grandfathered in on the pre-1975 standards should be shut down. And more stringent regulations applied to the rest of them, until the alternatives are in place to generate the needed power, then they should be shut down.

The alternatives are all far more expensive. This move by the Obama administration is likely to double the cost of electricity. That means every poor family will have to spend $100-$200 more on electricity rather than on nutritious food for their children, or on orthodontia or books.

The proponents of this measure are lying their asses off when they claim they are motivated by concern for children. They couldn't give a rats ass about children, especially children in poor families.

As we see more and more consequences of the warming of the globe, we will have a choice. A phased out termination of fossil fuel use, or, a decade or so later than the phased out process would have been done, an adrupt and wrenching cessation of the use of fossil fuels.

Do we? Can you produce a single case of someone being poisoned by mercury?

Given the present idiocy on this issue by so many, we will get the wrenching alternative. And the more severe consequences that go with that extra decade or so of fossil fuel use.

So you want to impose the "wrenching alternative" now rather than later?

Talk about idiocies.

 

[bripat9643]

You're a moron, Rocks in the Head.

95% of all Mercury comes from thermal vents at the bottom of the ocean. This fact has been known ever since they were discovered. Whining about the small percentage that comes from U.S. coal fired power plants only shows what a colossal hypocrite you are. The Mercury that comes from power plants is no different than the kind that comes from the vents at the bottom of the ocean. Mercury levels in the ocean far exceed anything found in fresh water. If you were genuinely concerned about mercury, you would never eat shrimp, lobster or anything caught in the sea ever again.

You're a hack and a liar.

http://www.akdart.com/enviro6.html

As independent natural scientist Dr. Willie Soon and CFACT policy advisor Paul Driessen pointed out in their Wall Street Journal and Investor’s Business Daily articles, and in Dr. Soon’s 85-page critique of EPA’s draft rules, US power plants account for only 0.5% of the mercury in US air. Thus, even if EPA’s new rules eventually do eliminate 90% of mercury from power plant emission streams, that’s still only 90% of 0.5% – ie, almost zero benefit. The rest of the mercury in US air comes from natural and foreign sources, such as forest fires, Chinese power plants and the cremation of human remains (from tooth fillings that contain mercury and silver).

EPA fails to recognize that mercury is abundant in the earth’s crust. It is absorbed by trees through their roots – and released into the atmosphere when the trees are burned in forest fires, fireplaces and wood-burning stoves. In fact, US forest fires annually emit as much mercury as all US coal-burning electrical power plants. Mercury and other “pollutants” are also released by geysers, volcanoes and subsea vents, which tap directly into subsurface rock formations containing these substances.

The agency compounds these errors by claiming fish contain dangerous levels of mercury that threatens the health and mental acuity of babies and children. In making this claim, the agency commits four more grievous errors. First, it ignores the fact that selenium in fish tissue is strongly attracted to mercury molecules and thus protects people against buildups of methylmercury, mercury’s more toxic form.

Second, EPA based its toxicity claims on a study of Faroe Islanders, who eat few fruits and vegetables, but feast on pilot whale meat and blubber that is high in mercury and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) – but very low in selenium. Third, it ignored a 17-year Seychelles Islands evaluation, which found “no measurable cognitive or behavioral effects” in children who eat five to twelve servings of fish per week.

Fourth, it used computer models to generate linear extrapolations from known or assumed toxic levels down to much lower levels. Not only is this method contrary to sound science and epidemiology; it resulted in politicized “safety” levels that are twice as restrictive as Canadian and World Health Organization mercury standards, three times more restrictive than US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, and four times tougher than US Food and Drug Administration recommendations. No wonder the Centers for Disease Control says blood mercury levels in US women and children are already well below excessively “safe” levels set by EPA.

Simply put, EPA grossly exaggerated the health benefits of its proposed mercury rules – and then claimed additional mercury benefits based on double counting of reductions in particulate matter. It also ignored the adverse effects that its rules will inflict. Not only is EPA’s anti-mercury campaign scaring mothers and children into not eating nutritious fish that is rich in Omega-3 fatty acids. It is also raising electricity heating, air conditioning and food costs, impairing electrical reliability, costing jobs, and thereby harming the health and welfare of countless Americans.

Umm there are no volcanic vents in the streams and rivers of the state I live it and yet the fish all have mercury in them.
I guess it flows up the Mississippi river to KY?

Evidence?

Since you're so concerned about Mercury poisoning, when did you stop eating fish from the ocean?

In this, as everything else, once again you demonstrate what a dumb fuck you are, Pattycake. The information is readily available.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/marine/img/mm_paper.pdf

The key points presented in the following pages of this review are:
1) Methylmercury is a worldwide pollutant originating largely from the burning of fossil
fuels, primarily in the generation of electrical power;2) It’s estimated that should all anthropogenic sources of mercury pollution be
eliminated, it would require more than 50 years for methymercury in fish to return to
pre-industrial levels;
3) Methylmercury is a potent neurotoxin that can cause birth defects, learning
disabilities, blindness, paralysis, loss of muscular control and death;
4) Methylmercury bio-accumulates through the food chain with the primary source of
and risk to human health being the consumption of fish (freshwater and marine);
5) Methylmercury in many freshwater and marine fish has been documented at levels
that exceed those generally agreed upon by federal agencies (EPA and FDA), state
agencies and recently by the National Academy of Sciences (National Research
Council) and methylmercury constitutes a health risk that should be limited or
avoided by man;

 

[Big Fitz]

Awww now a little mercury never hurt anyone.
in my state it is ok to eat one meal of fresh caught fish a month for a healthy adult anyway.

And have it in every lightbulb you own.

Been eating lightbulbs lately?

Break one, dumbfuck and enjoy the mercury vapors that come from it. Compare the intake of that to eating fish or breathing it in the atmosphere.

 

[g5000]

Using this rule the Obama Administration is in the process of shutting down over 100 coal fired electric generating plants and causing the operating costs of the rest to increase.

Clean Air Mercury Rule | US EPA

From that link:

On March 15, 2005, EPA issued the Clean Air Mercury Rule to permanently cap and reduce mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants for the first time ever.

Damn that Obama! His Muslim overlords made him issue the Clean Air Mercury Rule in 2005!

THAT BASTARD! He must be a commie pinko fag. The fricking Democrats are killing us, I tell you! We need to get the motherfucker who made that 2005 rule out of the White House post haste!!!!

 

[konradv]

And have it in every lightbulb you own.

Been eating lightbulbs lately?

Break one, dumbfuck and enjoy the mercury vapors that come from it. Compare the intake of that to eating fish or breathing it in the atmosphere.

Why would I want to break one? That's a false premise. To make a valid comparison, you need to treat each example the same, i.e. in normal use. I could just as easily ask you, "what about injecting fish broth into your veins?" It would make as much sense.

 

[bripat9643]

Why would I want to break one? That's a false premise. To make a valid comparison, you need to treat each example the same, i.e. in normal use. I could just as easily ask you, "what about injecting fish broth into your veins?" It would make as much sense.

Note that none of the turds who support destroying America's electric power infrastructure are about to stop eating salmon, lobster, shrimp, grouper, oysters, crab, or any other food from the sea.

They don't believe their own rhetoric about the dangers of Mercury.

 

[Big Fitz]

Been eating lightbulbs lately?

Break one, dumbfuck and enjoy the mercury vapors that come from it. Compare the intake of that to eating fish or breathing it in the atmosphere.

Why would I want to break one? That's a false premise. To make a valid comparison, you need to treat each example the same, i.e. in normal use. I could just as easily ask you, "what about injecting fish broth into your veins?" It would make as much sense.

uh huh... accidents never happen, huh?

 

[konradv]

Why would I want to break one? That's a false premise. To make a valid comparison, you need to treat each example the same, i.e. in normal use. I could just as easily ask you, "what about injecting fish broth into your veins?" It would make as much sense.

Note that none of the turds who support destroying America's electric power infrastructure are about to stop eating salmon, lobster, shrimp, grouper, oysters, crab, or any other food from the sea.

They don't believe their own rhetoric about the dangers of Mercury.

Where'd you get that info? Firstly, not everyone you oppose is in lockstep with each other. Secondly, many people HAVE cut down or eliminated sea food from their diet.

 

[konradv]

Break one, dumbfuck and enjoy the mercury vapors that come from it. Compare the intake of that to eating fish or breathing it in the atmosphere.

Why would I want to break one? That's a false premise. To make a valid comparison, you need to treat each example the same, i.e. in normal use. I could just as easily ask you, "what about injecting fish broth into your veins?" It would make as much sense.

uh huh... accidents never happen, huh?

Acciedents happen, but the risk is small. It would take 100 light bulbs to equal the amount in one old time thermometer. Also, for valid comparison you'd have to give us figures on fish "accidently" eaten or air "accidently" breathed!

 

[Big Fitz]

Why would I want to break one? That's a false premise. To make a valid comparison, you need to treat each example the same, i.e. in normal use. I could just as easily ask you, "what about injecting fish broth into your veins?" It would make as much sense.

Note that none of the turds who support destroying America's electric power infrastructure are about to stop eating salmon, lobster, shrimp, grouper, oysters, crab, or any other food from the sea.

They don't believe their own rhetoric about the dangers of Mercury.

Where'd you get that info? Firstly, not everyone you oppose is in lockstep with each other. Secondly, many people HAVE cut down or eliminated sea food from their diet.

Now I'd like to see the cost effectiveness study for those who DID cut seafood out of their diet. Is the harm to the seafood industry there? Is there a proven positive impact on people's health?

That said, I'd like to see a cost effectiveness study for this bullshit anti-coal, Malthusian policy that is being delayed for political reasons.

You know, it'd be funny if someone could push through a bill saying it must be implemented this year before September or rendered void. Force P-BO to live with the consequences of his obvious bad decision.