Cleveland police ask for open carry ban

[BuckToothMoron]

The Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association is asking the governor to suspend state law allowing the open carry of firearms for the duration of Republican National Convention.

Gov. John Kasich does not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws, spokeswoman Emmalee Kalmbach said.

Cleveland police union appeals for weapons ban

Not having the power to suspend state/constitutional rights would not stop -some- governors. Good job, John.

“We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something — I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Cleveland Police Union president Stephen Loomis told CNN.

Yes... lets just suspend rights whenever we think it is a good idea.

This is not unusual if anyone knows a little about history. It was even common in the good ole Wild West when nearly all people owned guns. Nor is it a suspension of the second amendment as some have suggested. And I own guns.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Yeah......and the one thing they don't do in that link....look at how well actual criminals followed those laws....but for you.....I did just that......

Tombstone is usually a place where they also make the claim about gun control in the old west......sadly for the anti gunners there was a famous shooting there...and a chronicle of the events that led up to that shooting......and how often the actual criminals ignored those laws when they simply decided not to obey them.......

The Shootout at the O.K. Corral didn't happen because criminals were obeying the gun laws twit...

Here you go...read up on the actual Tombstone situation and how the criminals actually ignored the gun control laws....killing land wounding the Earps....

Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of many people who ignored Tombstone gun control....and he was a good guy....

Joyce ordered Holliday removed from the saloon but would not return Holliday's revolver. But Holliday returned carrying a double-action revolver. Milt brandished a pistol and threatened Holliday, but Holliday shot Joyce in the palm, disarming him, and then shot Joyce's business partner William Parker in the big toe

-----

Boyle later testified he noticed Ike was armed and covered his gun for him. Boyle later said that Ike told him, "'As soon as the Earps and Doc Holliday showed themselves on the street, the ball would open—that they would have to fight'...

------

Later in the morning, Ike picked up his rifle and revolver from the West End Corral, where he had deposited his weapons and stabled his wagon and team after entering town.

By noon that day, Ike was still drinking and once-again armed in violation of the city ordinance against carrying firearms in the city.

--------

Tom McLaury's concealed weapon[edit]

Outside the court house where Ike was being fined, Wyatt almost walked into 28 year-old Tom McLaury as the two men were brought up short nose-to-nose. Tom, who had arrived in town the day before, was required by the well-known city ordinance to deposit his pistol when he first arrived in town. When Wyatt demanded, "Are you heeled or not?", McLaury said he was not armed. Wyatt testified that he saw arevolver in plain sight on the right hip of Tom's pants

----------

Billy and Frank stopped first at the Grand Hotel on Allen Street, and were greeted by Doc Holliday. They learned immediately after of their brothers' beatings by the Earps within the previous two hours. The incidents had generated a lot of talk in town. Angrily, Frank said he would not drink, and he and Billy left the saloon immediately to seek Tom.

By law, both Frank and Billy should have left their firearms at the Grand Hotel. Instead, they remained fully armed.[2]:49[57]:190

--------

Virgil testified afterward that he thought he saw all four men, Ike Clanton, Billy Clanton, Frank McLaury, and Tom McLaury, buying cartridges.[79] Wyatt said that he saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury in Spangenberger's gun and hardware store on 4th Street filling theirgun belts with cartridges


Hmmmmmmmm...doesn't seem like the Tombstone gun control laws worked so far...

Virgil initially avoided a confrontation with the newly arrived Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton, who had not yet deposited their weapons at a hotel or stable as the law required.

------------

At about 2:30 pm he saw Ike, Frank, Tom, and Billy gathered off Fremont street. Behan attempted to persuade Frank McLaury to give up his weapons, but Frank insisted that he would only give up his guns after City Marshal Virgil Earp and his brothers were disarmed.[81]

-----------

Citizens reported to Virgil on the Cowboys' movements that Ike and Tom had left their livery stable and returned to town while armed, in violation of the city ordinance.


Gun control only works for those who will obey the laws...law abiding citizens....so any gun control will completely fail at disarming criminals and mass shooters.

Thank you for making my point- the criminals were the ones with guns, not the law abiding citizens. So old Virgil and Wyatt were not at all confused about who was bad and who was good. Really, this is not that hard.

 

[2aguy]

The Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association is asking the governor to suspend state law allowing the open carry of firearms for the duration of Republican National Convention.

Gov. John Kasich does not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws, spokeswoman Emmalee Kalmbach said.

Cleveland police union appeals for weapons ban

Not having the power to suspend state/constitutional rights would not stop -some- governors. Good job, John.

“We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something — I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Cleveland Police Union president Stephen Loomis told CNN.

Yes... lets just suspend rights whenever we think it is a good idea.

This is not unusual if anyone knows a little about history. It was even common in the good ole Wild West when nearly all people owned guns. Nor is it a suspension of the second amendment as some have suggested. And I own guns.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Yeah......and the one thing they don't do in that link....look at how well actual criminals followed those laws....but for you.....I did just that......

Tombstone is usually a place where they also make the claim about gun control in the old west......sadly for the anti gunners there was a famous shooting there...and a chronicle of the events that led up to that shooting......and how often the actual criminals ignored those laws when they simply decided not to obey them.......

The Shootout at the O.K. Corral didn't happen because criminals were obeying the gun laws twit...

Here you go...read up on the actual Tombstone situation and how the criminals actually ignored the gun control laws....killing land wounding the Earps....

Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of many people who ignored Tombstone gun control....and he was a good guy....

Joyce ordered Holliday removed from the saloon but would not return Holliday's revolver. But Holliday returned carrying a double-action revolver. Milt brandished a pistol and threatened Holliday, but Holliday shot Joyce in the palm, disarming him, and then shot Joyce's business partner William Parker in the big toe

-----

Boyle later testified he noticed Ike was armed and covered his gun for him. Boyle later said that Ike told him, "'As soon as the Earps and Doc Holliday showed themselves on the street, the ball would open—that they would have to fight'...

------

Later in the morning, Ike picked up his rifle and revolver from the West End Corral, where he had deposited his weapons and stabled his wagon and team after entering town.

By noon that day, Ike was still drinking and once-again armed in violation of the city ordinance against carrying firearms in the city.

--------

Tom McLaury's concealed weapon[edit]

Outside the court house where Ike was being fined, Wyatt almost walked into 28 year-old Tom McLaury as the two men were brought up short nose-to-nose. Tom, who had arrived in town the day before, was required by the well-known city ordinance to deposit his pistol when he first arrived in town. When Wyatt demanded, "Are you heeled or not?", McLaury said he was not armed. Wyatt testified that he saw arevolver in plain sight on the right hip of Tom's pants

----------

Billy and Frank stopped first at the Grand Hotel on Allen Street, and were greeted by Doc Holliday. They learned immediately after of their brothers' beatings by the Earps within the previous two hours. The incidents had generated a lot of talk in town. Angrily, Frank said he would not drink, and he and Billy left the saloon immediately to seek Tom.

By law, both Frank and Billy should have left their firearms at the Grand Hotel. Instead, they remained fully armed.[2]:49[57]:190

--------

Virgil testified afterward that he thought he saw all four men, Ike Clanton, Billy Clanton, Frank McLaury, and Tom McLaury, buying cartridges.[79] Wyatt said that he saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury in Spangenberger's gun and hardware store on 4th Street filling theirgun belts with cartridges


Hmmmmmmmm...doesn't seem like the Tombstone gun control laws worked so far...

Virgil initially avoided a confrontation with the newly arrived Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton, who had not yet deposited their weapons at a hotel or stable as the law required.

------------

At about 2:30 pm he saw Ike, Frank, Tom, and Billy gathered off Fremont street. Behan attempted to persuade Frank McLaury to give up his weapons, but Frank insisted that he would only give up his guns after City Marshal Virgil Earp and his brothers were disarmed.[81]

-----------

Citizens reported to Virgil on the Cowboys' movements that Ike and Tom had left their livery stable and returned to town while armed, in violation of the city ordinance.


Gun control only works for those who will obey the laws...law abiding citizens....so any gun control will completely fail at disarming criminals and mass shooters.

Thank you for making my point- the criminals were the ones with guns, not the law abiding citizens. So old Virgil and Wyatt were not at all confused about who was bad and who was good. Really, this is not that hard.

The story of the O.K. coral shows exactly what we keep telling you morons......gun control laws only affect law abiding citizens........criminals follow or ignore them as they want......you post a story about how they had gun control laws in the old west....I show you how they were completely ignored by the actual criminals....and you claim victory.......what a moron.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Thank you for making my point- the criminals were the ones with guns, not the law abiding citizens. So old Virgil and Wyatt were not at all confused about who was bad and who was good. Really, this is not that hard.

Why do you believe it is constitutionally permissible to arbitrarily suspend the exercise of a right, absent any legislative or Judaical action?
How about the governor suspend the right to protest, citing the possibility of violence?

 

[martybegan]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Not a single person was killed by the people open carrying at the protest (we don't know if the shooter was part of the open carry group or not), and none of them were shot by cops. They did what they should have done, they did not go looking for the guy, or get in the way of the police.

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Except....you know....it didn't......considering none of the guys with the slung rifles was shot.........during and active shooter attack.....

Face it twit....nothing you guys have ever said about people carrying concealed or open weapons in a mass shooting happened....you were wrong.....

I wasn't wrong about anything I said, I simply pointed out that the police say it makes their job more difficult in those situation. And as I posted already, suspending open carry is not a suspension of the 2nd Amendment, nor is it unprecedented even in the Wild West. Here is some history that might help you- Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

In those situations, the law enforcement in the town to over responsibility for protecting everyone that entered. The compact was "check in your guns, and we will assure that no one else is armed in the area either".

Since the police department doesn't want to take on that responsibility (outside of the controlled areas, which are actually true "gun free zones" you cannot suspend the rights of people by fiat on public streets.

 

[2aguy]

Thank you for making my point- the criminals were the ones with guns, not the law abiding citizens. So old Virgil and Wyatt were not at all confused about who was bad and who was good. Really, this is not that hard.

Why do you believe it is constitutionally permissible to arbitrarily suspend the exercise of a right, absent any legislative or Judaical action?
How about the governor suspend the right to protest, citing the possibility of violence?

They should ban all journalists from the convention.......just to make sure nothing inciting is reported......for safety concerns....and all outside protest should be cancelled and all protestors arrested....for safety concerns.....

 

[martybegan]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Not a single person was killed by the people open carrying at the protest (we don't know if the shooter was part of the open carry group or not), and none of them were shot by cops. They did what they should have done, they did not go looking for the guy, or get in the way of the police.

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Actually, considering Texas has shall issue concealed carry, they have to assume anyone could be concealed carrying as well. In the end, none of these people got shot, and they didn't shoot anyone, so I doubt the confusion they caused was any greater than the confusion of unarmed people fleeing the area, and of course, the confusion caused by the shooter.

The 'shall issue' comes only after the permit applicant completes a training course and pays the permit fee. Until recently open carry in Texas applied only to longarms now it applies to sidearms but only if the person openly carrying a sidearm has a CC permit.

I think you misunderstood me. "Shall issue" means that absent a disqualifying factor, like being a felon, or being mentally adjudicated, the government HAS to issue a CCW.

My state, NY is a "may issue" state, where if the local law enforcement doesn't want you to have a CCW, they don't have to issue it.

 

[bodecea]

The Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association is asking the governor to suspend state law allowing the open carry of firearms for the duration of Republican National Convention.

Gov. John Kasich does not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws, spokeswoman Emmalee Kalmbach said.

Cleveland police union appeals for weapons ban

Not having the power to suspend state/constitutional rights would not stop -some- governors. Good job, John.

“We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something — I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Cleveland Police Union president Stephen Loomis told CNN.

Yes... lets just suspend rights whenever we think it is a good idea.

NO! Open carry is a wonderful idea.

 

[Ringel05]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Not a single person was killed by the people open carrying at the protest (we don't know if the shooter was part of the open carry group or not), and none of them were shot by cops. They did what they should have done, they did not go looking for the guy, or get in the way of the police.

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Except....you know....it didn't......considering none of the guys with the slung rifles was shot.........during and active shooter attack.....

Face it twit....nothing you guys have ever said about people carrying concealed or open weapons in a mass shooting happened....you were wrong.....

I wasn't wrong about anything I said, I simply pointed out that the police say it makes their job more difficult in those situation. And as I posted already, suspending open carry is not a suspension of the 2nd Amendment, nor is it unprecedented even in the Wild West. Here is some history that might help you- Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

In Texas as in many States state law trumps local, the State Legislature is the only body that can suspend/limit open carry and given Texas politics I seriously doubt they would even consider it.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Thank you for making my point- the criminals were the ones with guns, not the law abiding citizens. So old Virgil and Wyatt were not at all confused about who was bad and who was good. Really, this is not that hard.

Why do you believe it is constitutionally permissible to arbitrarily suspend the exercise of a right, absent any legislative or Judaical action?
How about the governor suspend the right to protest, citing the possibility of violence?

They should ban all journalists from the convention.......just to make sure nothing inciting is reported......for safety concerns....and all outside protest should be cancelled and all protestors arrested....for safety concerns.....

OMG- now you are using liberal tactics- make an absurd over the top, unrelated correlation. Come on man, you're better than that.

 

[charwin95]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Troll...nothing you anti gunners say about people carrying guns in a mass shooting happened...Lyon were wrong on everything....

The people carrying pistols and rifles...they did not turn into Rambo and engage the shooter...they were responsible, law abiding people...they knew the cops were on the scene so they retreated and let th cops do their jobs.....

Then the other lie you guys tell...that the cops won't know who the shooter is...didn't happen...you had people with openly carried rifles, and likely pistols....and when the shooting started the cops did not shoot the good guys with the guns....why? Because they could see they weren't shooting innocent people.........


You anti gunners are wrong on every thing about guns and gun owners in this country......the facts, the statistics and the actual situations show that you know zero when it comes to this topic.........

AGAIN?
Are you saying that chief of police and mayor are lying?
Do you have any proof that these did not create a massive confusion? When shooting started while they are shot at they have to sort who is the bad guy.
You assumed all people carrying guns are good guys.
What IF the real shooter is mixing with these assholes? Are they supposed to just relax happy take everything for granted while these dude walking around heavily armed?

Again. You assumed that all people with guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.
Did officer Yanez assumed that Castile is good guy because he has CC permit? Your answer will be........ Yes and Nothing happened.
Stick with this topic answer my question and don't wonder around.

 

[Ringel05]

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Not a single person was killed by the people open carrying at the protest (we don't know if the shooter was part of the open carry group or not), and none of them were shot by cops. They did what they should have done, they did not go looking for the guy, or get in the way of the police.

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Actually, considering Texas has shall issue concealed carry, they have to assume anyone could be concealed carrying as well. In the end, none of these people got shot, and they didn't shoot anyone, so I doubt the confusion they caused was any greater than the confusion of unarmed people fleeing the area, and of course, the confusion caused by the shooter.

The 'shall issue' comes only after the permit applicant completes a training course and pays the permit fee. Until recently open carry in Texas applied only to longarms now it applies to sidearms but only if the person openly carrying a sidearm has a CC permit.

I think you misunderstood me. "Shall issue" means that absent a disqualifying factor, like being a felon, or being mentally adjudicated, the government HAS to issue a CCW.

My state, NY is a "may issue" state, where if the local law enforcement doesn't want you to have a CCW, they don't have to issue it.

No I didn't misunderstand you, I was simply clarifying how it works in Texas.

 

[2aguy]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Troll...nothing you anti gunners say about people carrying guns in a mass shooting happened...Lyon were wrong on everything....

The people carrying pistols and rifles...they did not turn into Rambo and engage the shooter...they were responsible, law abiding people...they knew the cops were on the scene so they retreated and let th cops do their jobs.....

Then the other lie you guys tell...that the cops won't know who the shooter is...didn't happen...you had people with openly carried rifles, and likely pistols....and when the shooting started the cops did not shoot the good guys with the guns....why? Because they could see they weren't shooting innocent people.........


You anti gunners are wrong on every thing about guns and gun owners in this country......the facts, the statistics and the actual situations show that you know zero when it comes to this topic.........

AGAIN?
Are you saying that chief of police and mayor are lying?
Do you have any proof that these did not create a massive confusion? When shooting started while they are shot at they have to sort who is the bad guy.
You assumed all people carrying guns are good guys.
What IF the real shooter is mixing with these assholes? Are they supposed to just relax happy take everything for granted and happy while these dude walking around heavily armed?

Again. You assumed that all people with guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.
Did officer Yanez assumed that Castile is good guy because he has CC permit? Your answer will be........ Yes and Nothing happened.
Stick with this topic answer my question and don't wonder around.

I am saying they are wrong. Nothing that happened at the Dallas shooting supports what you or they are saying.....

I don't assume anything.......the police isolated the actual shooter.....and they even did it at the Colorado theater shooting where an officer saw the shooter dressed in black with a rifle....and managed to grasp that the guy was susicious...and they caught him as he tried to escape......you are wrong again........

No...I know not all people with guns are good guys...too many democrats own guns......and in too many democrat voting districts too many young minority males are shooting other minorities.....but you guys don't seem concerned about that.....

Castilie wasn't shot because of his concealed carry permit........as far as we know at this point he was reaching while displaying a gun, as a possible robbery suspect....try again......

 

[martybegan]

Not a single person was killed by the people open carrying at the protest (we don't know if the shooter was part of the open carry group or not), and none of them were shot by cops. They did what they should have done, they did not go looking for the guy, or get in the way of the police.

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Actually, considering Texas has shall issue concealed carry, they have to assume anyone could be concealed carrying as well. In the end, none of these people got shot, and they didn't shoot anyone, so I doubt the confusion they caused was any greater than the confusion of unarmed people fleeing the area, and of course, the confusion caused by the shooter.

The 'shall issue' comes only after the permit applicant completes a training course and pays the permit fee. Until recently open carry in Texas applied only to longarms now it applies to sidearms but only if the person openly carrying a sidearm has a CC permit.

I think you misunderstood me. "Shall issue" means that absent a disqualifying factor, like being a felon, or being mentally adjudicated, the government HAS to issue a CCW.

My state, NY is a "may issue" state, where if the local law enforcement doesn't want you to have a CCW, they don't have to issue it.

No I didn't misunderstand you, I was simply clarifying how it works in Texas.

aight.

 

[M14 Shooter]

OMG- now you are using liberal tactics- make an absurd over the top, unrelated correlation. Come on man, you're better than that.

Why do you believe it is constitutionally permissible to arbitrarily suspend the exercise of a right, absent any legislative or Judaical action?
How about the governor suspend the right to protest, citing the possibility of violence?

 

[charwin95]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Troll...nothing you anti gunners say about people carrying guns in a mass shooting happened...Lyon were wrong on everything....

The people carrying pistols and rifles...they did not turn into Rambo and engage the shooter...they were responsible, law abiding people...they knew the cops were on the scene so they retreated and let th cops do their jobs.....

Then the other lie you guys tell...that the cops won't know who the shooter is...didn't happen...you had people with openly carried rifles, and likely pistols....and when the shooting started the cops did not shoot the good guys with the guns....why? Because they could see they weren't shooting innocent people.........


You anti gunners are wrong on every thing about guns and gun owners in this country......the facts, the statistics and the actual situations show that you know zero when it comes to this topic.........

AGAIN?
Are you saying that chief of police and mayor are lying?
Do you have any proof that these did not create a massive confusion? When shooting started while they are shot at they have to sort who is the bad guy.
You assumed all people carrying guns are good guys.
What IF the real shooter is mixing with these assholes? Are they supposed to just relax happy take everything for granted and happy while these dude walking around heavily armed?

Again. You assumed that all people with guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.
Did officer Yanez assumed that Castile is good guy because he has CC permit? Your answer will be........ Yes and Nothing happened.
Stick with this topic answer my question and don't wonder around.

I am saying they are wrong. Nothing that happened at the Dallas shooting supports what you or they are saying.....

I don't assume anything.......the police isolated the actual shooter.....and they even did it at the Colorado theater shooting where an officer saw the shooter dressed in black with a rifle....and managed to grasp that the guy was susicious...and they caught him as he tried to escape......you are wrong again........

No...I know not all people with guns are good guys...too many democrats own guns......and in too many democrat voting districts too many young minority males are shooting other minorities.....but you guys don't seem concerned about that.....

Castilie wasn't shot because of his concealed carry permit........as far as we know at this point he was reaching while displaying a gun, as a possible robbery suspect....try again......

What? You are ASSUMING that they were wrong. Do you have any back up to prove that they are wrong or I'm wrong? PLEASE answer my question.

That is right nothing happened in Dallas but I showed you that it caused massive confusion. AGAIN ................. are you saying that chief and mayor are both lying? Did they just said that just for fun?
I gave you example of Castile shooting because according to ALL your post all people carrying guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.

I am very concerned about all of these shooting that is why I'm so pissed from people like you. Despite all the killings.... HERE you are trying to prove you are a rabid dog gun supporter. Do you even care about the 8 cops that was killed? You can ululate your ass however you want....... But YOU are part of the problem.
Don't you have any decency or dignity left in your worthless soul?

What is this bullshit about Colorado shooting that you are trying to deflect? DIDN'T I just said stick with this topic?
Try again.

 

[2aguy]

I heard the guy this morning. I don't think he's wacky, there's no way to determine who's who and many on the left are filled with hate. He says he's very pro-2nd, he's just worried about a powder keg blowing up on their watch.

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Troll...nothing you anti gunners say about people carrying guns in a mass shooting happened...Lyon were wrong on everything....

The people carrying pistols and rifles...they did not turn into Rambo and engage the shooter...they were responsible, law abiding people...they knew the cops were on the scene so they retreated and let th cops do their jobs.....

Then the other lie you guys tell...that the cops won't know who the shooter is...didn't happen...you had people with openly carried rifles, and likely pistols....and when the shooting started the cops did not shoot the good guys with the guns....why? Because they could see they weren't shooting innocent people.........


You anti gunners are wrong on every thing about guns and gun owners in this country......the facts, the statistics and the actual situations show that you know zero when it comes to this topic.........

AGAIN?
Are you saying that chief of police and mayor are lying?
Do you have any proof that these did not create a massive confusion? When shooting started while they are shot at they have to sort who is the bad guy.
You assumed all people carrying guns are good guys.
What IF the real shooter is mixing with these assholes? Are they supposed to just relax happy take everything for granted and happy while these dude walking around heavily armed?

Again. You assumed that all people with guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.
Did officer Yanez assumed that Castile is good guy because he has CC permit? Your answer will be........ Yes and Nothing happened.
Stick with this topic answer my question and don't wonder around.

I am saying they are wrong. Nothing that happened at the Dallas shooting supports what you or they are saying.....

I don't assume anything.......the police isolated the actual shooter.....and they even did it at the Colorado theater shooting where an officer saw the shooter dressed in black with a rifle....and managed to grasp that the guy was susicious...and they caught him as he tried to escape......you are wrong again........

No...I know not all people with guns are good guys...too many democrats own guns......and in too many democrat voting districts too many young minority males are shooting other minorities.....but you guys don't seem concerned about that.....

Castilie wasn't shot because of his concealed carry permit........as far as we know at this point he was reaching while displaying a gun, as a possible robbery suspect....try again......

What? You are ASSUMING that they were wrong. Do you have any back up to prove that they are wrong or I'm wrong? PLEASE answer my question.

That is right nothing happened in Dallas but I showed you that I caused massive confusion. AGAIN ................. are you saying that chief and mayor are both lying? Did they just said that just for fun?
I gave you example of Castile shooting because according to ALL your post all people carrying guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.

I am very concerned about all of these shooting that is why I'm so pissed from people like you. Despite all the killings.... HERE you are trying to prove you are a rabid dog gun supporter. Do you even care about the 8 cops that was killed? You can ululate your ass however you want....... But YOU are part of the problem.
Don't you have any decency or dignity left in your worthless soul?

What is this bullshit about Colorado shooting that you are trying to deflect? DIDN'T I just said stick with this topic?
Try again.

Yes.......the actual event shows they were wrong twit.....what actually happened.....you actually had people carrying guns at the event...and when the shooting started they backed off, and let the police handle it....

There was massive confusion twit because you had a sniper firing from a concealed position in the middle of a city, with the shots echoing all over the place.......and yet in the middle of that confusion....not one good guy with a gun was shot by a cop.....

you are wrong....in everything you believe about guns

Please....show where all of my posts say that all people carrying guns are good guys...considering how often I quote murder statistics with guns from the FBi....

You are an idiot...you point is stupid, you point is not based in what actually happened....you hate guns and gun owners and have let your emotions take over your arguments.....

You are a twit.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

why don't they just ban liberals from protesting in Cleveland for the week, then in a turnabout is fair play next week they can ban conservatives from protesting at the Dem National Convention. Oh wait, only liberals show up and violently protest rallies you say?

 

[charwin95]

Lots of open carry in Dallas caused a lot of confusion and many are dead now.

Troll...nothing you anti gunners say about people carrying guns in a mass shooting happened...Lyon were wrong on everything....

The people carrying pistols and rifles...they did not turn into Rambo and engage the shooter...they were responsible, law abiding people...they knew the cops were on the scene so they retreated and let th cops do their jobs.....

Then the other lie you guys tell...that the cops won't know who the shooter is...didn't happen...you had people with openly carried rifles, and likely pistols....and when the shooting started the cops did not shoot the good guys with the guns....why? Because they could see they weren't shooting innocent people.........


You anti gunners are wrong on every thing about guns and gun owners in this country......the facts, the statistics and the actual situations show that you know zero when it comes to this topic.........

AGAIN?
Are you saying that chief of police and mayor are lying?
Do you have any proof that these did not create a massive confusion? When shooting started while they are shot at they have to sort who is the bad guy.
You assumed all people carrying guns are good guys.
What IF the real shooter is mixing with these assholes? Are they supposed to just relax happy take everything for granted and happy while these dude walking around heavily armed?

Again. You assumed that all people with guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.
Did officer Yanez assumed that Castile is good guy because he has CC permit? Your answer will be........ Yes and Nothing happened.
Stick with this topic answer my question and don't wonder around.

I am saying they are wrong. Nothing that happened at the Dallas shooting supports what you or they are saying.....

I don't assume anything.......the police isolated the actual shooter.....and they even did it at the Colorado theater shooting where an officer saw the shooter dressed in black with a rifle....and managed to grasp that the guy was susicious...and they caught him as he tried to escape......you are wrong again........

No...I know not all people with guns are good guys...too many democrats own guns......and in too many democrat voting districts too many young minority males are shooting other minorities.....but you guys don't seem concerned about that.....

Castilie wasn't shot because of his concealed carry permit........as far as we know at this point he was reaching while displaying a gun, as a possible robbery suspect....try again......

What? You are ASSUMING that they were wrong. Do you have any back up to prove that they are wrong or I'm wrong? PLEASE answer my question.

That is right nothing happened in Dallas but I showed you that I caused massive confusion. AGAIN ................. are you saying that chief and mayor are both lying? Did they just said that just for fun?
I gave you example of Castile shooting because according to ALL your post all people carrying guns are good guys and law abiding citizens.

I am very concerned about all of these shooting that is why I'm so pissed from people like you. Despite all the killings.... HERE you are trying to prove you are a rabid dog gun supporter. Do you even care about the 8 cops that was killed? You can ululate your ass however you want....... But YOU are part of the problem.
Don't you have any decency or dignity left in your worthless soul?

What is this bullshit about Colorado shooting that you are trying to deflect? DIDN'T I just said stick with this topic?
Try again.

Yes.......the actual event shows they were wrong twit.....what actually happened.....you actually had people carrying guns at the event...and when the shooting started they backed off, and let the police handle it....

There was massive confusion twit because you had a sniper firing from a concealed position in the middle of a city, with the shots echoing all over the place.......and yet in the middle of that confusion....not one good guy with a gun was shot by a cop.....

you are wrong....in everything you believe about guns

Please....show where all of my posts say that all people carrying guns are good guys...considering how often I quote murder statistics with guns from the FBi....

You are an idiot...you point is stupid, you point is not based in what actually happened....you hate guns and gun owners and have let your emotions take over your arguments.....

You are a twit.

Okay...... You are stupid fuck that you cannot even answer aaaany of my question but trying to deflect.
My point was based from actual event.

YOU....... What did you posted? You don't have anything back with your worthless piece of shit opinion. You are low life scumbag. You are part of the problem.
Show you your post where all people guns carrying guns are good guys........... Okay. You supported these assholes carrying guns. You are assuming that all of these are good guys? Correct? What is the point for these assholes coming to this kind of gathering? Showing force in support of BLM that you support? Or confused the heck of these cops during the shooting.
I am wrong because of my belief about guns? You are dumber than I thought.

Dude. NO......... I don't hate gun owners........ I am so PISSED with all these shooting that you don't care. You posted about your guns all over the place all the time.......... Did I come and beat you up? NO....... But I'm very pissed about these recent shootings.
Try again asshole.

 

[Ringel05]

Not a single person was killed by the people open carrying at the protest (we don't know if the shooter was part of the open carry group or not), and none of them were shot by cops. They did what they should have done, they did not go looking for the guy, or get in the way of the police.

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Actually, considering Texas has shall issue concealed carry, they have to assume anyone could be concealed carrying as well. In the end, none of these people got shot, and they didn't shoot anyone, so I doubt the confusion they caused was any greater than the confusion of unarmed people fleeing the area, and of course, the confusion caused by the shooter.

The 'shall issue' comes only after the permit applicant completes a training course and pays the permit fee. Until recently open carry in Texas applied only to longarms now it applies to sidearms but only if the person openly carrying a sidearm has a CC permit.

I think you misunderstood me. "Shall issue" means that absent a disqualifying factor, like being a felon, or being mentally adjudicated, the government HAS to issue a CCW.

My state, NY is a "may issue" state, where if the local law enforcement doesn't want you to have a CCW, they don't have to issue it.

No I didn't misunderstand you, I was simply clarifying how it works in Texas.

Also been posting in the Dallas shooting thread, somehow I ended up posting in this one and didn't read the thread title...... Oops.

 

[martybegan]

You missed the points, it makes it difficult for the cops to tell good people with guns versus bad people with guns.

Dallas police chief: Open carry makes things confusing during mass shootings

Actually, considering Texas has shall issue concealed carry, they have to assume anyone could be concealed carrying as well. In the end, none of these people got shot, and they didn't shoot anyone, so I doubt the confusion they caused was any greater than the confusion of unarmed people fleeing the area, and of course, the confusion caused by the shooter.

The 'shall issue' comes only after the permit applicant completes a training course and pays the permit fee. Until recently open carry in Texas applied only to longarms now it applies to sidearms but only if the person openly carrying a sidearm has a CC permit.

I think you misunderstood me. "Shall issue" means that absent a disqualifying factor, like being a felon, or being mentally adjudicated, the government HAS to issue a CCW.

My state, NY is a "may issue" state, where if the local law enforcement doesn't want you to have a CCW, they don't have to issue it.

No I didn't misunderstand you, I was simply clarifying how it works in Texas.

Also been posting in the Dallas shooting thread, somehow I ended up posting in this one and didn't read the thread title...... Oops.

Understandable.