Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

[HereWeGoAgain]

Yes, we can take our time. But "we" are not the ones who are staring what we think could be DEATH, straight in the face. The 2 cops are the ones who did that.

EXACTLY my point and EXACTLY what I already wrote.

Funny thing is, not one of the know-it-all gun nutters can tell. They're all big tough guys on a keyboard but faced with this real life decision, and they are MORE like to make a mistake because they really don't know even a fraction of what they brag about.

And, THAT is why they all went POOF! and disappeared.

I DO know what I talk about, I served 5 years in the military, including some time in the Army National Guard, and confronted rioters in the Harlem riots in the summer of 1964. I had a rifle with a fixed bayonet, and rioters were all over the place. And how do you know what is the experience of other posters in this forum ? Some of them could be police officers right now.

5 years in the military and you even had a bayonet ...

And you can't tell either.

The police officers could not tell.

THAT is the point.

Excuse me for my confusion here, but exactly WHAT is the "point" you are talking about ????

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

So all this babbling is about whether or not we "gun nuts" wouldnt have recognized it as a fake gun? Are you serious?
Please dont breed duddly...that would be the worst form of child abuse.

 

[protectionist]

Excuse me for my confusion here, but exactly WHAT is the "point" you are talking about ????

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

Consider your totally brain remark alongside the thousands of National Guard and Police who have been killed, while SAVING your ungrateful, unenlightened hide, along with those of millions of other Americans.

Cops and Guardsmen do not stride this planet in the chalked togas of the infallible.

While they do, for the most part, serve and protect as is their mandate, when they go wrong, they go terribly wrong.

There are some of those occasions. But the majority, overwhelmingly do NOT go wrong. And some police are slightly too slow to act and shoot. That how these scenes come about >>

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I DO know what I talk about, I served 5 years in the military, including some time in the Army National Guard, and confronted rioters in the Harlem riots in the summer of 1964. I had a rifle with a fixed bayonet, and rioters were all over the place. And how do you know what is the experience of other posters in this forum ? Some of them could be police officers right now.

5 years in the military and you even had a bayonet ...

And you can't tell either.

The police officers could not tell.

THAT is the point.

Excuse me for my confusion here, but exactly WHAT is the "point" you are talking about ????

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

 

[protectionist]

5 years in the military and you even had a bayonet ...

And you can't tell either.

The police officers could not tell.

THAT is the point.

Excuse me for my confusion here, but exactly WHAT is the "point" you are talking about ????

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

Pro-militia types here have posted that the US military would not fire on US citizens.

They are wrong.

Nothing in life is 100% perfect.

 

[Nosmo King]

5 years in the military and you even had a bayonet ...

And you can't tell either.

The police officers could not tell.

THAT is the point.

Excuse me for my confusion here, but exactly WHAT is the "point" you are talking about ????

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

So deadly force is the one and only option? Tell that to the victim's family.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Excuse me for my confusion here, but exactly WHAT is the "point" you are talking about ????

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

Sol deadly force is the one and only option? Tell that to the victim's family.

You dont bring a tazer to a gun fight.
So lets hear your ideas on how it should have been handled....I need a good laugh.

 

[Nosmo King]

I've said it over and over - in a high stress situation, the cops could not tell this was a bb gun. The phony hunt-n-grunt gun nutters here cannot tell either and they're too chicken to even try.

You saying you were in military gives you some sort of knowledge germane to this discussion is incorrect because you were told what was in your hand.

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

Sol deadly force is the one and only option? Tell that to the victim's family.

You dont bring a tazer to a gun fight.
So lets hear your ideas on how it should have been handled....I need a good laugh.

Well, first I'd think that NOT SHOOTING A 12 YEAR OLD BOY WITH A BB GUN might be a good idea.

I don't share the blood lust of the Conservative, nor the 'shoot first, then shoot again then ask a question' mentality of your garden variety gun nut.

I'm saddled with civilization, not action movie reflexes.

And if you find something to laugh about while a 12 year old with a BB gun was killed by police, I fear for the future of civilization itself.

 

[DriftingSand]

4 year old shoots three year old: Washington 4-year-old accidentally shoots 3-year-old neighbor - LA Times
12 year old shoots seven year old: 12-year-old boy accidentally shoots kills 7-year-old brother myfox8.com
12 year old shoots nine year old: 12-Year-Old Newark Boy Accidentally Shoots Nine-Year-Old Sister While Playing With Handgun

Moral of the story? Boys with guns can be deadly. A smart cop takes no chances. If the kid in the park was wielding a realistic looking toy, a smart cop will likely assume that it IS real. Part 2 of the moral of the story? Don't point real looking guns at folks because you might die in the process.

 

[OnePercenter]

Instead of whining and crying about thugs like Travon Martin and Michael Brown
being shoot and killed maybe time would be better spent wondering how two police officers ended up shooting and killing a 12 year old boy in a park because he was playing with a toy gun? There is no excuse for the police action on this shooting.

Read more at Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police - Toledo Blade

Of course you didn't include that the boy modified his 'toy gun' to look real by removing the orange tip from the end of the barrel.

 

[protectionist]

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

Sol deadly force is the one and only option? Tell that to the victim's family.

You dont bring a tazer to a gun fight.
So lets hear your ideas on how it should have been handled....I need a good laugh.

Well, first I'd think that NOT SHOOTING A 12 YEAR OLD BOY WITH A BB GUN might be a good idea.

But that wasn't the scenario. It was shooting or not shooting a 12 year old boy with a gun, which may or may not have been a real gun, as far as the police could determine.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Instead of whining and crying about thugs like Travon Martin and Michael Brown
being shoot and killed maybe time would be better spent wondering how two police officers ended up shooting and killing a 12 year old boy in a park because he was playing with a toy gun? There is no excuse for the police action on this shooting.

Read more at Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police - Toledo Blade

Rushing to judgement? Brilliant.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ah, rush to judgement time again.

Possibly a rush to judgement but not likely. Two cops, One Twelve year old? You think the 2 cops had no other way to resolve this other than shooting the kid?

Playing?

Yes Playing, have you never played with toy guns as a kid?

So you were there. You can provide direct testimony. Ok...Go ahead

 

[protectionist]

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

Sol deadly force is the one and only option? Tell that to the victim's family.

You dont bring a tazer to a gun fight.
So lets hear your ideas on how it should have been handled....I need a good laugh.

Well, first I'd think that NOT SHOOTING A 12 YEAR OLD BOY WITH A BB GUN might be a good idea.

But that wasn't the scenario. It was to shoot or not shoot a 12 year old boy who may or may not have a real gun, as far as the cops were able to determine.

 

[bucs90]

If a 12 year old can shoot and kill a deer...or his classmates as we've seen....then why should we assume he cant kill a cop?

The gun looked identical to a real gun. The 12 year old male was fully capable of pulling the trigger and using the gun.

We find out afterwards its a fake gun.

Tragic. But cops did nothing wrong.

Those of you who want cops to try tasers vs being faced with a gun....go sign the fuck up and YOU risk death to be nice to the person with a gun....or who tried to take yours.

 

[protectionist]

4 year old shoots three year old: Washington 4-year-old accidentally shoots 3-year-old neighbor - LA Times
12 year old shoots seven year old: 12-year-old boy accidentally shoots kills 7-year-old brother myfox8.com
12 year old shoots nine year old: 12-Year-Old Newark Boy Accidentally Shoots Nine-Year-Old Sister While Playing With Handgun

Moral of the story? Boy with boys can be deadly. A smart cop takes no chances. If the kid in the park was wielding a weapon that looked real a smart cop will assume that it IS real. Part 2 of the moral of the story? Don't point real looking guns at folks because you might die in the process.

And PARENTS: Don't give your kids realistic-looking guns. Buy them a microscope, a guitar, set of mechanics tools, or something to inspire them to learn something positive (science, music, law, machines, computers)

 

[bucs90]

It looked real. 12 year olds have killed deer and classmates.

How many bullets should they have to risk eating before they defend themselves?

 

[bucs90]

It looked real. 12 year olds have killed deer and classmates.

How many bullets should they have to risk eating before they defend themselves?

 

[protectionist]

It looked real. 12 year olds have killed deer and classmates.

How many bullets should they have to risk eating before they defend themselves?

ZERO

 

[Luddly Neddite]

We're are not talking about what (as a LEO was in MY hand). We're talking about the gun in the hand of some civilian holding a gun. And what I said about National Guard experience IS germane to the discussion. Some of the NG troops had live ammunition, we could have done what the NG troops did at Kent State, and fired and killed some people. It all depends on what those people do. Whether a little boy with a toy gun, or Michael Brown, or Trayvon Martin, THEY call the shots and dictate the action, not the LEOs. Get it ?

Consider your Kent State analogy. The National Guard fired into the crowd indiscriminately while CLASSES WERE CHANGING. The National Guard was clueless and murdered four innocent students.

In Cleveland, the cops shot a 12 year old boy even as the 911 operator was told at least twice that the gun he held was, in reality, a BB gun.

So, clueless cops, clueless National Guardsmen. So far, their ineptitude has resulted in at least five dead in Northern Ohio.

They said they "thought" the gun was fake. And I sure as hell wouldnt trust some yahoos opinion on whether or not the gun was fake if it was my life on the line.

Sol deadly force is the one and only option? Tell that to the victim's family.

You dont bring a tazer to a gun fight.
So lets hear your ideas on how it should have been handled....I need a good laugh.

Well, first I'd think that NOT SHOOTING A 12 YEAR OLD BOY WITH A BB GUN might be a good idea.

I don't share the blood lust of the Conservative, nor the 'shoot first, then shoot again then ask a question' mentality of your garden variety gun nut.

I'm saddled with civilization, not action movie reflexes.

And if you find something to laugh about while a 12 year old with a BB gun was killed by police, I fear for the future of civilization itself.

All of which is why an air taser can be an excellent alternative to deadly force. The ones I have can put someone on the ground at 15 feet and they'll stay down for about 20-30 minutes. Mine also have a taser gun feature in case there are more than one.

A lot of police forces are using them. Read pros and cons here.

OTOH - several pov at this link.

The Taser is touted for saving lives and preventing injury, but a new study says that some police officers reach for the weapon too quickly.

And the ACLU

Tasers No Longer a Non-Lethal Alternative for Law Enforcement

05/03/2012

Policing

By Rebecca McCray, ACLU Criminal Law Reform Project & Emma Andersson, Criminal Law Reform Project at 3:39pm

Tasers subject their victims to a 50,000 volt shock followed by 100 microsecond pulses of 1,200 volts. Since 2001, more than 500 people in the United States have died after law enforcement officers used this weapon against them. A study published this week by the American Heart Association’s Circulation Journal confirms that the misuse of a Taser can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death.


In theory, a Taser is intended to serve as a non-lethal method of control for law enforcement officers when they need to physically restrain a dangerous person. But as the new Circulation study demonstrates, Tasers cannot so simply be categorized as “non-lethal.” In addition, there are far too many instances in which officers have impulsively deployed Tasers against children, pregnant women and the mentally ill, even though the victims posed no real danger to either the officers or anyone else.


The new evidence that Tasers can cause cardiac arrest and death, coupled with the disturbing trend of officers using Tasers in flagrantly unnecessary situations, makes it all the more troubling that states do not uniformly or consistently govern or regulate officers’ use of Tasers. This means that Taser policies vary greatly between police departments, often leading to vague, outdated and inaccurate guidelines that result in misunderstanding about the misuse of these allegedly non-lethal weapons.

 

[Nosmo King]

If a 12 year old can shoot and kill a deer...or his classmates as we've seen....then why should we assume he cant kill a cop?

The gun looked identical to a real gun. The 12 year old male was fully capable of pulling the trigger and using the gun.

We find out afterwards its a fake gun.

Tragic. But cops did nothing wrong.

Those of you who want cops to try tasers vs being faced with a gun....go sign the fuck up and YOU risk death to be nice to the person with a gun....or who tried to take yours.

We did not find out AFTERWARDS that the gun was fake. The 911 operator was told TWICE that the gun was fake.