Class warfare?

You wanted no government involvement in your life

You got it in Somalia

Kind of like a Libertarian "It's a Wonderful Life"
Libertarian government upholds the rule of law, protecting private property, the basis of economics. Without first protecting existing property, growth cannot even be begun.

you can seriously claim that Somalia is "Libertarian", and nobody (but me) will call you on it?




No libertarian success stories exist, right?
Here is the problem with libertarian success. As a country attempts to follow the libertarian ideas, the country moves toward fascism.
Fascism is no more Libertarian, than Communism. Manipulation of government, to oppress citizens, by any party against any other party, is "playing politics" -- not "doing business" by "working hard to get ahead" like a Libertarian.

i fear there seems to be no means of "correcting once and for all" major misconceptions. If Libertarianism can be called something it is not; and then if nobody ever calls or gets called on that fact; then there is no debate, everybody's mind has already been made up (to whatever purpose), in error, about which errors they (somehow) care not

Typical Libertarian response. When challenged, you backtrack, move the goalpost and respond....We only have government do the good stuff

If that is the case, you are no different than our current political structure. The Libertarian ideal becomes...I want to keep the government programs that help me and scrap the things that help everyone else
 
Try to live on $25,000 a year with a family of our, Widdekind, and come back and tell us what is wrong with that.

If you're only making 25K then then don't have kids you can't afford.

What's wrong with that?

And when did the standard of fair pay become enough to support a family of four?

Really?

What if you had a good job and were making good money when you had them? Ignoring and mocking the struggles of low middle class Americans while protecting the wealthiest at all costs is what I expected
 
Try to live on $25,000 a year with a family of our, Widdekind, and come back and tell us what is wrong with that.

If you're only making 25K then then don't have kids you can't afford.

What's wrong with that?

And when did the standard of fair pay become enough to support a family of four?

Really?

What if you had a good job and were making good money when you had them? Ignoring and mocking the struggles of low middle class Americans while protecting the wealthiest at all costs is what I expected

What's stopping someone from working 2 jobs if they have to or what's stopping the spouse from working?

Every job cannot be held to the standard of supporting a family of four that is unless you want to pay $35 for a cup of coffee and a doughnut.

Maybe while he had a good job if he saved more and spent less you know lived below his means (god forbid) then he would have had some savings to help support his kids.

It's called responsibility and planning ahead.

But we can't expect people to do that now can we?
 
Our "high wages" do not allow workers to buy homes, send their kids to college or buy healthcare

Meanwhile, CEOs make hundred times more than the average worker. How much do your Republican Chinese CEOs make?

You have yet to prove that cutting some peoples' pay will increase other peoples' pay.

That is not the point.

Of course it is or else you all wouldn't be whining like fucking 5 year olds about CEO pay.
 
I thought the American dream was all about making it in the land of the free.
Seems a good few think it's all about a give away of cash to the lazy.
 
The whiniing by Skull Piolt and others is merely flip and frivolous.

They are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts and definitions.

Well, if the are in economics at the u, they will fail soon and go look for jobs in real life.
 
...maybe you missed the "2005$" on the 'Y' axis--
hshldincmddlpp.png

--it means 'adjusted for inflation and converted to dollars for 2005'...
It is simple. Find out what the purchasing power by income for the decade years and see if purchasing power is much higher or lower or the same for the middle class. Then see what the comparison is for growth of income for wealthy, middle, and lower classes.
Clarity needed. Are you saying that inflation does not measure purchasing power?
 
The whiniing by Skull Piolt and others is merely flip and frivolous.

They are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts and definitions.

Well, if the are in economics at the u, they will fail soon and go look for jobs in real life.

You have yet to provide proof for your statements so until you do you are nothing but a whiner.

And if yew are in Engish at the U then you have already failed.
 
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If you're only making 25K then then don't have kids you can't afford.

What's wrong with that?

And when did the standard of fair pay become enough to support a family of four?

Really?

What if you had a good job and were making good money when you had them? Ignoring and mocking the struggles of low middle class Americans while protecting the wealthiest at all costs is what I expected

What's stopping someone from working 2 jobs if they have to or what's stopping the spouse from working?

Every job cannot be held to the standard of supporting a family of four that is unless you want to pay $35 for a cup of coffee and a doughnut.

Maybe while he had a good job if he saved more and spent less you know lived below his means (god forbid) then he would have had some savings to help support his kids.

It's called responsibility and planning ahead.

But we can't expect people to do that now can we?

Working two jobs may be a solution for one family but is not a solution to the problem ALL lower middle class workers face. There are not enough second jobs for all of them
 
That graph covers a timeframe starting when few women worked outside the home through a period when most did. Also during that time, the middle class turned to credit cards to perpetuate their increasing expectations of lifestyle improvement.
In the first place, employees/household actually fell while middle class incomes rose. In the second place, borrowing is not income. Finally, if you've really got your heart set on America being bad off, then we can save ourselves some work and just agree to disagree.
 
Really?

What if you had a good job and were making good money when you had them? Ignoring and mocking the struggles of low middle class Americans while protecting the wealthiest at all costs is what I expected

What's stopping someone from working 2 jobs if they have to or what's stopping the spouse from working?

Every job cannot be held to the standard of supporting a family of four that is unless you want to pay $35 for a cup of coffee and a doughnut.

Maybe while he had a good job if he saved more and spent less you know lived below his means (god forbid) then he would have had some savings to help support his kids.

It's called responsibility and planning ahead.

But we can't expect people to do that now can we?

Working two jobs may be a solution for one family but is not a solution to the problem ALL lower middle class workers face. There are not enough second jobs for all of them

There is always work if one is willing to work. You may not like the jobs or you may think you're too good to work them but they are there nonetheless.
 
What's stopping someone from working 2 jobs if they have to or what's stopping the spouse from working?

Every job cannot be held to the standard of supporting a family of four that is unless you want to pay $35 for a cup of coffee and a doughnut.

Maybe while he had a good job if he saved more and spent less you know lived below his means (god forbid) then he would have had some savings to help support his kids.

It's called responsibility and planning ahead.

But we can't expect people to do that now can we?

Working two jobs may be a solution for one family but is not a solution to the problem ALL lower middle class workers face. There are not enough second jobs for all of them

There is always work if one is willing to work. You may not like the jobs or you may think you're too good to work them but they are there nonetheless.

It doesn't work like that

There may be work for one family who is struggling. But to assume that our economy has second jobs available for the millions who are struggling to make ends meet is simplistic nonsense
 
Working two jobs may be a solution for one family but is not a solution to the problem ALL lower middle class workers face. There are not enough second jobs for all of them

There is always work if one is willing to work. You may not like the jobs or you may think you're too good to work them but they are there nonetheless.

It doesn't work like that

There may be work for one family who is struggling. But to assume that our economy has second jobs available for the millions who are struggling to make ends meet is simplistic nonsense

It works just like that.

If I had to I could find another job.

For example. If I wasn't working and I noticed my neighbor was paying a landscaping company to mow his lawn, I would offer to mow it for less.

It's not as hard as you think if you think for yourself.
 
The whiniing by Skull Piolt and others is merely flip and frivolous.

They are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts and definitions.

Well, if the are in economics at the u, they will fail soon and go look for jobs in real life.

You have yet to provide proof for your statements so until you do you are nothing but a whiner.

And if yew are in Engish at the U then you have already failed.

I don't have to "provide" any evidence until you support your assertions with evidence, Skull Pilot. That's how it works.

For instance, you say folks can take second jobs. Really? Show by stats and evidence the number of second jobs available and where they are located.

You see? I could respond to that.

Yes, you are at Fail at the moment.
 
That graph covers a timeframe starting when few women worked outside the home through a period when most did. Also during that time, the middle class turned to credit cards to perpetuate their increasing expectations of lifestyle improvement.
In the first place, employees/household actually fell while middle class incomes rose. In the second place, borrowing is not income. Finally, if you've really got your heart set on America being bad off, then we can save ourselves some work and just agree to disagree.

No, let's discuss this a little. Ok, I'll concede that maybe that IS an actual reflection of the rise of the middle class. But I just calculated the amount of that rise and it turns out to be 1.27% per year - at a time when technology and process improvements have exploded. Do you really feel that this is cause for celebration?
 
JoeNormal points out, ". . .[the middle class growth] turns out to be 1.27% per year] and correctly wants to know if that "is cause" to celebrate?

Let's compare that growth with the growth of the upper 1% income and purchasing power over the last several decades.
 
The whiniing by Skull Piolt and others is merely flip and frivolous.

They are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts and definitions.

Well, if the are in economics at the u, they will fail soon and go look for jobs in real life.

You have yet to provide proof for your statements so until you do you are nothing but a whiner.

And if yew are in Engish at the U then you have already failed.

I don't have to "provide" any evidence until you support your assertions with evidence, Skull Pilot. That's how it works.

For instance, you say folks can take second jobs. Really? Show by stats and evidence the number of second jobs available and where they are located.

You see? I could respond to that.

Yes, you are at Fail at the moment.

Excuse me but you are the one who said and I quote

Don't you understand that Microsoft would have us working 60 hours a week for $4.50 an hour without regulation?

My second post in this thread asked you to prove that particular piece of ridiculousness and you can't

As far as second jobs are concerned here are just a few in my state.

http://www.helpwanted.com/connecticut-jobs

http://part-time.jobs.net/jobs/connecticut.aspx
 
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Oh, nonsense, Skull Pilot. We are talking about "second jobs". By your logic, airline pilot would be a "second job" from the last post.

Come on, give us stats we can work with. It's up to you to parse and present, not wallow through a bucket of scraps you give me.

Addendum: Microsoft comment is an assertion to your assertion. It means as much as any of your assertions or mine, for that matter: nothing.
 

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