Citizens United outcry

[nikole]

Is there anyone here who thinks it is good for the US democracy to have this in place?

Yes. Following the constitution is always good for our democracy.

As I said, in the old days liberals wanted more free speech. Whatever happened to thsoe people??

 

[R.C. Christian]

Is there anyone here who thinks it is good for the US democracy to have this in place?

Is there anyone who thinks the US is really a democracy. Rhetorical question for the win!

 

[Truthmatters]

Is there anyone here who thinks it is good for the US democracy to have this in place?

That considers that there is still a democracy in America .. which is open to question.

This country is now fully in the hands of the corporate will. We are a plutocracy. They even own and control American elections. The winner is determined by software .. that they own .. and no on else in America can even look at or examine. There is more integrity in the elections in Kenya then the US.

Corporations are in full control and the right thinks that's a good thing. They applaud a shrinking democracy and lay out the red carpet for the corporate takeover of America.

Democrats are too damn weak to stop them, so they joined them and are now just as corporate owned as republicans.

Our demise is set in motion and we deserve it.

America is Republic, not a democracy... as in "I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America. and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands......."

A republic IS a democracy.

You dont get to redefine words for political purposes.

Do I need to give you the definition yet again?

The dictionary is not agreeing with you.

 

[Truthmatters]

On The Hill: Survey: Four in Five Americans Support Amendment to Overturn Citizens United

 

[peach174]

That considers that there is still a democracy in America .. which is open to question.

This country is now fully in the hands of the corporate will. We are a plutocracy. They even own and control American elections. The winner is determined by software .. that they own .. and no on else in America can even look at or examine. There is more integrity in the elections in Kenya then the US.

Corporations are in full control and the right thinks that's a good thing. They applaud a shrinking democracy and lay out the red carpet for the corporate takeover of America.

Democrats are too damn weak to stop them, so they joined them and are now just as corporate owned as republicans.

Our demise is set in motion and we deserve it.

America is Republic, not a democracy... as in "I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America. and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands......."

A republic IS a democracy.

You dont get to redefine words for political purposes.

Do I need to give you the definition yet again?

The dictionary is not agreeing with you.

Truthmatters;
Republic- a state in which the sovereign power resides in a certain body of the people (the electorate) and is exercised by representatives elected by and responsible to them.
Democracy - government by the people, government in which the supreme power is retained by the people and exercised indirectly of representation.

Republic - elected officials responsible to the people
Democracy - supreme power - the people vote and an elected official votes for the majority (collectively)
And yes this came right from a dictionary.

 

[jillian]

As I said, in the old days liberals wanted more free speech. Whatever happened to thsoe people??

corporations aren't people.

and most of the conservatives i know agree with that...

except for the most rightwingnutty of wingnuts.

 

[midcan5]

"The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy." Alex Carey

The goals of corporations and citizens are often in conflict, how this scotus could assign person to a business entity is beyond rational consideration. Consider only monopolies or large, powerful corporations, they have power and money no citizen possesses. They do not even vote as one person. When you place fascist types in charge of legal decisions, your get fascist type results. [I know the word F is overused, but it fits.]

excellent: Democracy after Citizens United | MIT World


"...[O]nce society and politics are transformed by market capitalism and democratic institutions are in place, the outlook fundamentally changes. Now the inequalities in resources that market-capitalism churns out produce serious political inequalities among citizens.

Whether and how the marriage of polyarchal democracy to market-capitalism can be made more favorable to the further democratization of polyarchy is a profoundly difficult question for which there are no easy answers, and certainly no brief ones. The relation between a country's democratic political system and its nondemocratic economic system has presented a formidable and persistent challenge to democratic goals and practices throughout the twentieth century. That challenge will surely continue in the twenty-first century." Robert A. Dahl

 

[goldcatt]

As I said, in the old days liberals wanted more free speech. Whatever happened to thsoe people??

corporations aren't people.

and most of the conservatives i know agree with that...

except for the most rightwingnutty of wingnuts.

They're wingnuts who also don't know anything about their First Amendment OR corporate law.

Corporations as fictitious entities already had free speech rights for the purposes of commerce, that being the sole purpose for their existence and "association", if one really must use that term.

Why the fringe types fail to grasp that a legal fiction constructed for a single purpose should have rights limited to that purpose is beyond me.

 

[Truthmatters]

America is Republic, not a democracy... as in "I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America. and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands......."

A republic IS a democracy.

You dont get to redefine words for political purposes.

Do I need to give you the definition yet again?

The dictionary is not agreeing with you.

Truthmatters;
Republic- a state in which the sovereign power resides in a certain body of the people (the electorate) and is exercised by representatives elected by and responsible to them.
Democracy - government by the people, government in which the supreme power is retained by the people and exercised indirectly of representation.

Republic - elected officials responsible to the people
Democracy - supreme power - the people vote and an elected official votes for the majority (collectively)LINK?
And yes this came right from a dictionary.

A republic is a type of democracy

de·moc·ra·cy noun \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\
plural de·moc·ra·cies
Definition of DEMOCRACY
1a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2: a political unit that has a democratic government
3capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy &#8212; C. M. Roberts>
4: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

 

[Truthmatters]

On The Hill: Survey: Four in Five Americans Support Amendment to Overturn Citizens United

Only 20 % of Americans agree with this decision.

 

[peach174]

No Link it came from Websters Collegiate Dictionary not from the web
Do we vote for our congressmen and woman? Yes- we send the up there to represent us. They vote on the bills. A republic.
Do we the people vote on thoses bills and then our elected officals vote for the majority who are in favor of each bill -no
Big difference

 

[Truthmatters]

Did you read the dictionary definition?

A republic is a type of democracy.

You are confusing it with another kind of democracy which is called a DIRECT DEMOCRACY.

Now do I have to get you that definition too?

 

[Truthmatters]

Direct democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_government



Democracy (The Rule of the many)
Consociationalism
Deliberative democracy
Democratic socialism
Direct democracy
Egalitarianism
Futarchy
Open source governance
Participatory democracy
Representative democracy
Parliamentary system
Consensus government
Westminster system
Polyarchy
Presidential system
Semi-presidential system
Republicanism
Constitutional republic
Parliamentary republic
Totalitarian democracy

You do not get to change the meanings of words for your political purposes.

 

[peach174]

Why are you refusing to believe that we are a republic?
I pledge allegiance to the flag -And to the republic for which it stands.
Ben Franklin- was asked well sir what type of government do we have? He then replied a republic.

 

[editec]

FWIW, and I don't expect it to be worth much to those whose minds are already made up...

The Floundering Father's concept of corporations was NOTHING like the corporations we have today, folks.

So dragging them into this discussion to support the concept of modern corporations isn't going to be supportive to those of us who know what corporations were in the 18th century.

What corporations have been allowed to become is wholly different than what they were allowed to be 225 years ago.

 

[peach174]

Direct democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



List of forms of government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Democracy (The Rule of the many)
Consociationalism
Deliberative democracy
Democratic socialism
Direct democracy
Egalitarianism
Futarchy
Open source governance
Participatory democracy
Representative democracy
Parliamentary system
Consensus government
Westminster system
Polyarchy
Presidential system
Semi-presidential system
Republicanism
Constitutional republic
Parliamentary republic
Totalitarian democracy

You do not get to change the meanings of words for your political purposes.

I'm not we are a republic -It has nothing to do with the names of our political parties.

 

[jillian]

Why are you refusing to believe that we are a republic?
I pledge allegiance to the flag -And to the republic for which it stands.
Ben Franklin- was asked well sir what type of government do we have? He then replied a republic.

i'm wondering why you're both arguing a point that has zip, zilch, nada to do with the perversion that is Citizen's United v. FEC.

 

[goldcatt]

FWIW, and I don't expect it to be worth much to those whose minds are already made up...

The Floundering Father's concept of corporations was NOTHING like the corporations we have today, folks.

So dragging them into this discussion to support the concept of modern corporations isn't going to be supportive to those of us who know what corporations were in the 18th century.

What corporations have been allowed to become is wholly different than what they were allowed to be 225 years ago.

Looks like we're headed back to the days of the East India Company, doesn't it?

 

[Truthmatters]

Go study forms of government.

Democracy is the title of a categorey of types.

They all include the ones which give the power to the people to decide.

Democracy is the category that republic falls under.

Also under that category is Direct or pure democracy.

The US is a democracy which is a republic.

You can pretend not to understand but it doesnt make you right.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why are you refusing to believe that we are a republic?
I pledge allegiance to the flag -And to the republic for which it stands.
Ben Franklin- was asked well sir what type of government do we have? He then replied a republic.

i'm wondering why you're both arguing a point that has zip, zilch, nada to do with the perversion that is Citizen's United v. FEC.

I wish you would understand WHY all the people on the right want to make this lie become the accepted thinking.

It is one of their base lies they feed the right win converts.

It is designed to sully the word demoratic and make people redefine words to fit their world view.

They are trying to ruin the word so they can turn it into an epitath.

You really need to understand how the right works and how they win converts.