Christian questions

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Gurdari, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. Gurdari
    Offline

    Gurdari Egaliterra

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Thanks Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    the West
    Ratings:
    +40
    Not sure how to word this, but I mean it to be discussed, not as a particular insult:

    According to the Bible... does God have a case of self-loathing? Did he create Jesus to protect or 'save' people from himself? I hear about the damnation that awaits those who do not accept Jesus, but isn't that damnation directed FROM God? It seems like a bizarre dual-nature of a deity to at once condemn and pardon those he created...
     
  2. Taomon
    Offline

    Taomon Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,563
    Thanks Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +47
    If one accepts the notion that in order to be saved and go to heaven, one must accept Jesus into one's heart. But what about Moses, Noah, Adam and all of the other good people who existed before Jesus? Were they not allowed entrance into heaven?

    Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine both pointed out that Biblical myth correlated to Roman Paganistic myth both of which originated in Rome (Council of Nacia).

    Jesus words were altered by the preachings of Paul. That movement was altered by later editors of the Bible in Rome. Rome engineered empires and were the perfect architects to create a religion that has violence, oppression and bigotry as an underlying theme.

    The Bible is fraudulent. The divinity of Christ is a lie. The Trinity is a lie. The Eurochrist is a lie. The Virgin Birth is a lie. The Resurrection is a lie.
     
  3. Gurdari
    Offline

    Gurdari Egaliterra

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Thanks Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    the West
    Ratings:
    +40
    Whether I agree with that or not, the question is more 'Does the Bible or Christianity promote the idea of God disagreeing with himself' or is Jesus ostensibly there to protect God's creations from God himself?


    (I am not affirming the existence of non-existence of anything - just trying to clarify some things as Christians put them)
     
  4. Taomon
    Offline

    Taomon Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,563
    Thanks Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +47
    The answer is the Bible contends that God is fallible and that Jesus was created to save us from a God that has shown human emotions (according to the stories within).

    And my contention is that God is real, Jesus was a great man - buit no God and the Bible is flawed (to put it nicely).
     
  5. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,784
    Thanks Received:
    2,365
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,296
    Complex question. While I may not be the person today to answer that, I was raised Catholic and Catholics have this odd idea that you can educate the person and they will still follow tradition. So whenever this question came up, comes up, the theological reply is you cannot know because God is really unknowable.

    A story we were told as children was of a child sitting by the sea with a bucket dumping the sea into a hole, the skeptic (some saint I believe) walking by, asked the child, what they were doing, and when the child tells him they are emptying the sea into the hole, the skeptic says you can't do that, to which the child replies neither can you understand the mystery of God. (Anyone know the source of this?)

    The Jesuits were/are famous for intellectual explanations of religious mysteries - this covers everything

    http://catholic-resources.org/Both-And.htm
     
  6. Shogun
    Offline

    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    30,495
    Thanks Received:
    2,224
    Trophy Points:
    1,043
    Ratings:
    +2,260
    If one accepts the notion that in order to be saved and go to heaven, one must accept Jesus into one's heart. But what about Moses, Noah, Adam and all of the other good people who existed before Jesus? Were they not allowed entrance into heaven?

    the OT is god's covenent (contract) with the jews whereas the NT is god's covenant (contract) with gentiles. Moses, Noah, Adam and all the other good people would not have been required to observe the NT since, chances are, they would have rejected jebus as the messiah. In other words, you are looking at their dogma through the filter of christianity rather than as it's own separate dogma that predates the traditions of jebus.
     
  7. NuclearWinter
    Offline

    NuclearWinter BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,878
    Thanks Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +23
    Sho. Come on dawg it's not that kind of forum.
     
  8. rayboyusmc
    Offline

    rayboyusmc Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    4,015
    Thanks Received:
    338
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings:
    +338
    Maybe too many mortals create an image of god that is limited by their own limitations.

    If I am a hateful person, my god is hateful. If I am a loving person, my god is loving.


    If God has a sense of humor, he/she must be laughinfg her/his ass off over the stupidity of so many believing they have the one true religion.
     
  9. Shogun
    Offline

    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    30,495
    Thanks Received:
    2,224
    Trophy Points:
    1,043
    Ratings:
    +2,260
    Was that piece of fine art wit taken from prisonplanet.com? You might wanna email David Icke and let him know that you are hot on persuit of what you suspect is an alien overlord spreading propaganda on USMB.
     
  10. Eightball
    Offline

    Eightball Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,359
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +252
    You took some big steps of liberality, without one textual reason behind them.

    First of all Thomas Paine and Mr, Jefferson have great credentials as politicians, but now you've given them creedence as theologians. Please support that premise.

    I can certainly quote some obvious bias concerning Thomas Jefferson. He created his own bible from the King James translation, and it was called the Jeffersonian bible. Mr. Jefferson, did a very slick "cut and paste" job on all the verses in the N.T. that inflicted any guilt upon his human soul in the area of sin, need for salvation or reconciliation with his Maker.

    I can't speak for Mr. Paine, but if he is of similar vain as Mr. Jefferson, then thats the way he is.

    Both men can thank God for their liberty or freedom to mock, question, reject, or accept God of the bible.
    *******
    Now lets talk about Paul.....whom you say, changed Jesus's words. Please give some very explicit, clear examples of how Paul changed Jesus's teachings?

    Just want to let you know that Paul was fully accepted by the remaining 11 disciples/apostles when he/Paul presented himself and his doctrinal knowledge of understanding of the Christian faith to this group of men in Jerusalem, whom Jesus had earlier chosen to lead and establish His church.

    It's interesting that you who must be a gifted and noted theologian have found Pauline doctrine to be different from the teachings of Christ. :rolleyes: Your observations go flatly against or disagree with all the notable biblical scholars past and present.

    Again, Paul and his teachings were totally embraced/welcomed by the other apostles of Christ. Paul's main thrust of ministry was to the gentiles, and that, at first was difficult for the "11" to swallow, yet it was Peter who was initially called by God to bring or observe God's work of salvation in the house of Cornelias.

    So Peter himself knew that this gospel/good news of Christ was not exclusively for the Jew, but for the gentile as well.

    In fact it was propheside hundreds of years before the advent of Christ's birth/incarnation.
    ********
    Whats truly sad, is that the very ability to refute Christianity and or it tenents, is a gift of one's Creator, yet is blindly, or willfully ignored by those same people.
    *******
    Not unlike the freedom of speech given to us via the U.S. Constitution, yet that freedom is often used to deride the very source of the freedom to do it?
    *******
    People have the God given right to not believe, to curse, to mock, to be indifferent, etc.. when it comes to any relational aspect with a Higher Power/God. In their willful rebellion, and biblical ignorance, they toss out proclamations of theological insignifigance, as though it were carved in granite, and sourced from the depths of a scholar.

    Yet, He is mocked, not thanked, is disbelieved, not sought, is twisted or maligned, not observed as He is.......on and on and on. Human free will. A most special gift, but also a ticking time bomb when it comes to prospects of future, eternal destination. :(
     

Share This Page