China

[loosecannon]

China's quiet power grab




By Anne Applebaum
Tuesday, September 28, 2010

In April, the Chinese navy abruptly deployed 10 warships near the Japanese coast and sent helicopters to buzz Japanese ships. In July, the Chinese foreign minister angrily asserted his country's claim to international waters in the South China Sea, along with some islands claimed by others. Last week, a Chinese fishing trawler smashed into two Japanese Coast Guard boats, possibly on purpose, leading to a Japanese arrest and a furious reaction from Beijing.

Throw in a few rhetorical outbursts -- the Chinese U.N. official who ranted a couple of weeks ago about not liking Americans -- and certainly it does seem as if Chinese military, territorial and diplomatic aggression is rising. It is an extraordinary development, largely because, from China's point of view, it doesn't make sense. Why on earth should China shout, bully and push its neighbors around? Over the past decade, China has kept silent, lain low and behaved more like a multinational company than a global superpower -- and garnered enormous political influence as a result.

The fruits of this success are everywhere. Look at Afghanistan, for example, where American troops have been fighting for nearly a decade, where billions of dollars of American aid money has been spent -- and where a Chinese company has won the rights to exploit one of the world's largest copper deposits. Though American troops don't protect the miners directly, Afghan troops, trained and armed by Americans, do. And though the mine is still in its early phases, the Chinese businessmen and engineers -- wearing civilian clothes, offering jobs -- are already more popular with the locals than the U.S. troops, who carry guns and talk security. The Chinese paid a high price for their copper mining rights and took a huge risk. But if it pays off, our war against the Taliban might someday be remembered as the war that paved the way for Chinese domination of Afghanistan.

America fights, in other words, while China does business, and not only in Afghanistan. In Iraq, where American troops brought down a dictator and are still fighting an insurgency, Chinese oil companies have acquired bigger stakes in the oil business than their American counterparts. In Pakistan, where billions in American military aid helps the government keep the Taliban at bay, China has set up a free-trade area and is investing heavily in energy and ports.

Which brings me back to my original point: Why on earth are the Chinese playing military games with Japan, threatening Southeast Asia or entering politics at all? When they stay silent, we ignore them. When they threaten boycotts or use nationalist language, we get scared and react. We still haven't realized that the scariest thing about China is not the size of its navy or the arrogance of its diplomats. The scariest thing is the power China has already accumulated without ever deploying its military or its diplomats at all.

All responses must be posted in Mandarin. Wear gray or blue pajama like suits when posting and everything you post will be reviewed by the Party, so keep it on message, comrades!

China is asserting. Is the US strong enough to match them? All appearances say that we lose to China every day while they defeat us by increments every single day.

Is China the greatest nation on earth? Will they dominate the world economically within 2-3 years? Does the USA still have a spine?

 

[Charles_Main]

China's quiet power grab




By Anne Applebaum
Tuesday, September 28, 2010

In April, the Chinese navy abruptly deployed 10 warships near the Japanese coast and sent helicopters to buzz Japanese ships. In July, the Chinese foreign minister angrily asserted his country's claim to international waters in the South China Sea, along with some islands claimed by others. Last week, a Chinese fishing trawler smashed into two Japanese Coast Guard boats, possibly on purpose, leading to a Japanese arrest and a furious reaction from Beijing.

Throw in a few rhetorical outbursts -- the Chinese U.N. official who ranted a couple of weeks ago about not liking Americans -- and certainly it does seem as if Chinese military, territorial and diplomatic aggression is rising. It is an extraordinary development, largely because, from China's point of view, it doesn't make sense. Why on earth should China shout, bully and push its neighbors around? Over the past decade, China has kept silent, lain low and behaved more like a multinational company than a global superpower -- and garnered enormous political influence as a result.

The fruits of this success are everywhere. Look at Afghanistan, for example, where American troops have been fighting for nearly a decade, where billions of dollars of American aid money has been spent -- and where a Chinese company has won the rights to exploit one of the world's largest copper deposits. Though American troops don't protect the miners directly, Afghan troops, trained and armed by Americans, do. And though the mine is still in its early phases, the Chinese businessmen and engineers -- wearing civilian clothes, offering jobs -- are already more popular with the locals than the U.S. troops, who carry guns and talk security. The Chinese paid a high price for their copper mining rights and took a huge risk. But if it pays off, our war against the Taliban might someday be remembered as the war that paved the way for Chinese domination of Afghanistan.

America fights, in other words, while China does business, and not only in Afghanistan. In Iraq, where American troops brought down a dictator and are still fighting an insurgency, Chinese oil companies have acquired bigger stakes in the oil business than their American counterparts. In Pakistan, where billions in American military aid helps the government keep the Taliban at bay, China has set up a free-trade area and is investing heavily in energy and ports.

Which brings me back to my original point: Why on earth are the Chinese playing military games with Japan, threatening Southeast Asia or entering politics at all? When they stay silent, we ignore them. When they threaten boycotts or use nationalist language, we get scared and react. We still haven't realized that the scariest thing about China is not the size of its navy or the arrogance of its diplomats. The scariest thing is the power China has already accumulated without ever deploying its military or its diplomats at all.

All responses must be posted in Mandarin. Wear gray or blue pajama like suits when posting and everything you post will be reviewed by the Party, so keep it on message, comrades!

China is asserting. Is the US strong enough to match them? All appearances say that we lose to China every day while they defeat us by increments every single day.

Is China the greatest nation on earth? Will they dominate the world economically within 2-3 years? Does the USA still have a spine?

apparently not right now, or we would have massive exercises going on right now to match their shit.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

All responses must be posted in Mandarin. Wear gray or blue pajama like suits when posting and everything you post will be reviewed by the Party, so keep it on message, comrades!

China is asserting. Is the US strong enough to match them? All appearances say that we lose to China every day while they defeat us by increments every single day.

Is China the greatest nation on earth? Will they dominate the world economically within 2-3 years? Does the USA still have a spine?

Pffft, 2-3 years?! Maybe 20-30 at least, absolutely not in 2-3. China's GDP isn't projected to surpass the US's until 2030; and even farther ahead in per capita terms (at least over 50 years). As far as 'strong' goes, the US is still totally unsurpassed. Almost 700 billion dollars a year (4.2%) to China's paltry 100 billion (2%) for a nation three times larger in population.

No doubt China's assertiveness is concerning, but even with the rosiest of forecasts, China's future is far from clear. It would be surprising if the CCP was in power for another 20 years, and it is uncertain how China is going to deal with the inevitable transition from one-party rule.

In either case there's nothing to do about it. Even with all its military spending the US could not possibly invade China, and China could not possibly invade the US. A war would be either useless or end in total annihilation. Chances are that China's neighbours will likely have to endure the same treatment that the US's neighbors have for the past 200 years.

 

[loosecannon]

Epsilon, that was off message. You win a weekend in a reeducation camp!

 

[william the wie]

Epsilon, that was off message. You win a weekend in a reeducation camp!

Not just off message but with neighbors like Russia and India instead of Mexico and Canada China has much bigger problems than we do as in our offshore thorn in the side is Cuba and theirs is Japan.

 

[loosecannon]

Epsilon, that was off message. You win a weekend in a reeducation camp!

Not just off message but with neighbors like Russia and India instead of Mexico and Canada China has much bigger problems than we do as in our offshore thorn in the side is Cuba and theirs is Japan.

we will see Willie. At this point I would say we are definitely locked into a trade war with China that may last for the duration.

But on the other hand:

Our leaders are pussies, and our leaders are still addicted to never ending debt.

We may have to execute them to show China we are serious.

 

[william the wie]

I don't know picking fights with India, Russia and Japan strikes me as an awful full plate of chest thumping to avoid domestic political problems. I think China may be headed towards partial collapse soon.

 

[loosecannon]

well that would be fun if it is true.

Russia and China seem to be getting along quite well recently, and I expect this to continue until China gets too powerful to love.

Japan is fucked. They have no economy, they have no military they just have a lotta our bonds and a lot5 of their own debt.

India is hard to gauge, they are natural competitors and since they speak English and were part of the common wealth they seem to be the west's answer to a too big China.

But India probably has even more internal problems than China and those are holding India back.

China may surprise you. Esp since their rival the US is impotent to stop them from crucifying us with the peg.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I think William is more right here. They have all kinds of stuff on their plate, and they can't keep all the plates spinning.

This is probably just stuff they are doing to keep things chilled at home.

 

[topspin]

what a wuss
China's per capita GDP won't be higher than ours when your grandkids die.
Get a fucking nightlight.

 

[ekrem]

GDP per capita has no relevance in projecting power abroad.
It becomes only relevant if private persons engage in philanthropic activities abroad with their private accumulated wealth in such way that it does benefit the origin country.
But this is a double-edged sword, just look at Michael Moore as an example.

Absolute GDP, either nominal or PPP is only of relevance.
But not the only factors. In academic circles they widen concepts of national power even to areas of steel production capacity. But such factors only really become relevant in war-times.

In peace times fiscal policy is one of most important factors.
China has tremendous national savings in this regard, accumulated by State and private business. In the OP article were mentioned examples of acquisitions in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. It is not restricted to these countries, the Chinese now have been on shopping tour for years.

 

[Neubarth]

The maintenance of our efforts in the Afghanistan war is bankrupting the US. I strongly recommend that we engage the Chinese in Secret negotiations, telling them that they really need a second avenue to the sea, and that Afghanistan would be that perfect pathway.

Granted, to make contact with the Indian Ocean they would have to take a slice of Iran or Pakistan, but I know both countries would willingly oblige China once the Chinese made their heartfelt desires known. The Chinese know how to deal with Radical Islamic villages, especially in the Turkic areas of China. They just totally disappear. Poof! Gone. Chinese villages then appear.

China could also move 200,000,000 of their surplus population into Afghanistan and all of our Radical Islamic problems would be solved. Radical Islam would stop focusing on the American success story, and in place of US would concentrate on the Chinese. As previously stated, the Chinese know how to take care of problems like those. They all disappear.

If the Chinese agree to ruthlessly rule Afghanistan, we could promise them Nationalist China in two years, once we negated our treaties with them. We do not need to continue spending taxpayer's money being the policeman of the world. Nobody wants us in that capacity anyway.

 

[loosecannon]

China has tremendous national savings in this regard, accumulated by State and private business. In the OP article were mentioned examples of acquisitions in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. It is not restricted to these countries, the Chinese now have been on shopping tour for years.

China needs to secure access to a remarkable volume of resources and raw materials, energy and food esp. Their future depends on it. If they can do that via any geopolitical means and maintain free trade with the rest of the world they are unstoppable.

Which is why trade wars are almost certain to dominate the next decade. China can not adopt the resource consumption rate of the US unless they consume ALL of the earth's scarce resources leaving none for anybody else. Which pits them in rivalry against all other resource consuming nations in order of their consumption. The USA being their chief natural rival. Being the largest present resource consuming nation.

We are the greatest impediment to their success and vice versa. War, great war, may be inevitable. And they already have in excess of 100,000,000 disposable men who can not secure Chinese brides because of the shortage of Chinese women caused by the one child laws.

China will be strongly motivated toward conquest and empire and spreading their population globally if for no other reason than to secure brides and resources. And imo I expect them to seek their own agenda with the same singularity of purpose with which Israel does today. By any means necessary.

We gotta do something before they become too strong, and trade wars may be the ticket. But its a gamble....

We are feeding a baby dragon.

 

[loosecannon]

"This is not just another big player. This is the biggest player in the history of man."

Monk defines this in security terms: "The danger is less one of a large-scale military threat than of the gradual constriction of our freedom to operate in the manner to which Anglo-American naval primacy has long accustomed us."

He concludes: "The challenges we faced from Japan in the early 1940s and the Soviet Union during the Cold War were simple by comparison."

Great article
China's irresistible power surge | The Australian

 

[antagon]

china and the US are the world's biggest trade partners. what's this about a trade war?

 

[loosecannon]

trade wars are being touted as inevitable across much of the world's financial pages.

Japan and China are Asia's biggest trading partners with Chinese manufacturing accounting for almost 40% of Japan's corporate output. Yet Japan and China are indeed locked in a brewing trade war.

 

[uscitizen]

what a wuss
China's per capita GDP won't be higher than ours when your grandkids die.
Get a fucking nightlight.

GDP is for the rich. Wages are for the working class.

 

[antagon]

the customer/contractor relationship isn't all roses. it isn't a war either.

 

[loosecannon]

why isn't a trade war a war? Is a cold war a war?

 

[loosecannon]

THIS is funny!

China promises support for euro and euro bonds

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao says his country will continue to support both the euro and European government bonds.

"I have made clear that China supports a stable euro," he said.

He also promised not to cut China's investment in European bonds, despite the recent crisis which has weakened the value of many such bonds.

Mr Wen is visiting Greece, the worst-hit of the 27-nation European Union. He has promised to buy Greek government bonds the next time they went on sale.

China has said it needs to diversify its foreign currency holdings and has bought Spanish government bonds.

Later in the week, the Chinese leader will attend an EU-China, where the subject of the yuan is almost certain to come up.

BBC News - China promises support for euro and euro bonds

as with the US Chinese support for the Euro and EU bonds weakens the yuan while providing a lifeline for governments too deep in debt. The Euro will be artificially supported preventing the EU from realizing a recovery no matter how much deficit spending they throw into the wind.

This is predatory lending at it's finest! We should be ashamed to have to participate in our own destruction while strengthening the Chinese.