Child Support is unfair

[FA_Q2]

Fathers shouldn't have to pay child support if they made it clear they never wanted a child, but the woman got pregnant anyway. A woman should have no right to force a man to become a father, because he has no legal right to force her to become a mother. Its reverse discrimination.

If the man never wanted a child then the man should have been using rubbers or should have had a vasectomy. He should be responsible for himself and his own wishes....SHE SHOULD NOT have to be responsible for forefilling his desires of not having a child.

If a woman does not want a child then she should use protection, take the pill, or not have sex. She should NOT be able to get an abortion to…. Oh wait, your example is meaningless.

The man is expected to take the responsibility but he does not have a choice. The woman has that ball by virtue of her sex. The field is not even nor will it ever be. I agree with the original statement that a potential mother should not be allowed to ‘force’ a man to live the next 18 years in servitude if he never wanted the child in the first place as she can ‘opt out’ through an abortion and he has no say in that decision as well. She could go have the baby and put it up fpr adoption, all without ever having the father in the loop at all. All without ever taking one single ounce of responsibility for her own actions and yet we demand that the father should have no options at all, ever, in any set of circumstances.

Then there are states where a woman can arbitrarily declare a father that is not even present and unless you have the 500 bucks to shell out on the spot for the test you are screwed. Even of you prove after the fact that you are not the actual father, the court does not care unless you can find the biological father yourself. You think that happens often? Thought not. I had a friend that was caught in this situation. The court is essentially saying the child needs a father and whoever the mother points to, he is it. Unfortunately, this has other implications that go with it and is not much of an actual solution. Hence, the system that we have today that is not fair and abuses the men and their rights BUT provides for the children. The least you can do is recognize this fact.


The child support system is wildly biased in more ways than that though and it needs to be adjusted. Some states have it right. The wages of the parents are taken and put through an equation and it spits a number out based on that wage and visitation rights. Other states not so much. My father, as a good example, paid about a grand a month for me and my sister. After gaining full custody of us both, no one paid anything. Is that fair? No. Is it right? Absolutely not. If it works one way, it should work in the exact opposite way.

You also mention single family homes. I would be willing to bet that a sizable chunk of those receiving child support are NOT single mothers and fathers. Most people move on and get remarried. Should a single “father” that has no visitation be paying for the raising of the child that has a father and a mother?

The question of child support is rather complicated. There permutations that this situation can take are endless and each has a thousand different details that should come into play if you want things to actually be ‘fair.’ Unfortunately, the world is not fair and though the system is biased against men, what do we replace it with?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Fathers shouldn't have to pay child support if they made it clear they never wanted a child, but the woman got pregnant anyway. A woman should have no right to force a man to become a father, because he has no legal right to force her to become a mother. Its reverse discrimination.

If a male thinks he's man enough to fuck and get's a woman pregnant in the process he better be man enough to be a father to the child.

 

[Care4all]

Fathers shouldn't have to pay child support if they made it clear they never wanted a child, but the woman got pregnant anyway. A woman should have no right to force a man to become a father, because he has no legal right to force her to become a mother. Its reverse discrimination.

If the man never wanted a child then the man should have been using rubbers or should have had a vasectomy. He should be responsible for himself and his own wishes....SHE SHOULD NOT have to be responsible for forefilling his desires of not having a child.

If a woman does not want a child then she should use protection, take the pill, or not have sex. She should NOT be able to get an abortion to…. Oh wait, your example is meaningless.

The man is expected to take the responsibility but he does not have a choice. The woman has that ball by virtue of her sex. The field is not even nor will it ever be. I agree with the original statement that a potential mother should not be allowed to ‘force’ a man to live the next 18 years in servitude if he never wanted the child in the first place as she can ‘opt out’ through an abortion and he has no say in that decision as well. She could go have the baby and put it up fpr adoption, all without ever having the father in the loop at all. All without ever taking one single ounce of responsibility for her own actions and yet we demand that the father should have no options at all, ever, in any set of circumstances.

Then there are states where a woman can arbitrarily declare a father that is not even present and unless you have the 500 bucks to shell out on the spot for the test you are screwed. Even of you prove after the fact that you are not the actual father, the court does not care unless you can find the biological father yourself. You think that happens often? Thought not. I had a friend that was caught in this situation. The court is essentially saying the child needs a father and whoever the mother points to, he is it. Unfortunately, this has other implications that go with it and is not much of an actual solution. Hence, the system that we have today that is not fair and abuses the men and their rights BUT provides for the children. The least you can do is recognize this fact.


The child support system is wildly biased in more ways than that though and it needs to be adjusted. Some states have it right. The wages of the parents are taken and put through an equation and it spits a number out based on that wage and visitation rights. Other states not so much. My father, as a good example, paid about a grand a month for me and my sister. After gaining full custody of us both, no one paid anything. Is that fair? No. Is it right? Absolutely not. If it works one way, it should work in the exact opposite way.

You also mention single family homes. I would be willing to bet that a sizable chunk of those receiving child support are NOT single mothers and fathers. Most people move on and get remarried. Should a single “father” that has no visitation be paying for the raising of the child that has a father and a mother?

The question of child support is rather complicated. There permutations that this situation can take are endless and each has a thousand different details that should come into play if you want things to actually be ‘fair.’ Unfortunately, the world is not fair and though the system is biased against men, what do we replace it with?

If the man does not want a child, he does have a choice and that is to wear protection, have a vasectomy, or abstain from putting himself in a predicament of getting his girlfriend pregnant.

It is true that once pregnant, the woman does have more choices, but this is because it is her that is pregnant and it is her body.....not the father's body....and never ever will be the father's body.

do I think that there are some cases where it seems to be unfair to the father to be? sure, there are some cases....certainly not the majority of cases though.

 

[koshergrl]

The only unfair thing about child support the one who is paying it can't use it as a tax deduction I pay a thousand a month for one child and can't use it as a deduction

Why should you be able to use it as a tax deduction? I don't get a tax deduction for the money I spend on rent, food, clothing, lessons, medical costs for my children. Why should you?

And Amy is absolutely right...it's not tracked because it's meant to maintain a lifestyle for the children...it's not meant to be spent JUST on the children directly. Whether it's spent on rent, mom's clothing, the car, landscaping the yard, or vacations, those are things that add to the well being of the family and as such benefit the children.

 

[007]

The man is expected to take the responsibility but he does not have a choice. The woman has that ball by virtue of her sex. The field is not even nor will it ever be. I agree with the original statement that a potential mother should not be allowed to ‘force’ a man to live the next 18 years in servitude if he never wanted the child in the first place as she can ‘opt out’ through an abortion and he has no say in that decision as well. She could go have the baby and put it up fpr adoption, all without ever having the father in the loop at all. All without ever taking one single ounce of responsibility for her own actions and yet we demand that the father should have no options at all, ever, in any set of circumstances.

Wrong.... wrong, wrong, wrong... the man is making his "choice" when he elects to stick his pecker in it. If he isn't man enough to suffer the consequences if the woman gets pregnant, then he should have kept his dick in his pants. NO ONE MADE him fuck the woman. That was HIS CHOICE. Get that? HIS *CHOICE*.

If you don't ever, under any circumstances, in your life, want to get stuck paying for a child YOU FATHERED... THEN DON'T GO AROUND DIPPING YOUR WICK IN EVERY WET CRACK YOU FIND, because sooner or later, you WILL get a woman pregnant.

This argument is as stupid as that moron woman Sandy Fuck who was demanding that taxpayers provide her with free birth control pills because she couldn't keep her fucking legs shut. She saw a dick and she just had to fuck it, and because of that, you and I, the taxpayers had to foot the bill for her ineptitude. Same thing for a man that wants to whine and cry about having to pay child support. He blew the 'he shouldn't have to' argument the second he stuck his dick in. You play, you pay. I did, and I didn't bitch about it. It's the fucking you get for the fucking you got. Best males remember that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The only unfair thing about child support the one who is paying it can't use it as a tax deduction I pay a thousand a month for one child and can't use it as a deduction

Why should you be able to use it as a tax deduction? I don't get a tax deduction for the money I spend on rent, food, clothing, lessons, medical costs for my children. Why should you?

And Amy is absolutely right...it's not tracked because it's meant to maintain a lifestyle for the children...it's not meant to be spent JUST on the children directly. Whether it's spent on rent, mom's clothing, the car, landscaping the yard, or vacations, those are things that add to the well being of the family and as such benefit the children.

Why should the woman be allowed to use child support as an income? And get the tax deduction?

 

[syrenn]

I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?

what say me?


Men should pay for child support if they make a baby. If they dont want to pay child support...they should have kept their sperm to themselves.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Here the thing, child support is largely based on the income of the non-custodial parent, not the exact costs to care for the child. So, depending on your income you could be sending not near enough to cover expenses, or you could be sending a lot more.

Correct.

Child support can’t be ‘tracked’ because it’s unearned income received by the custodial parent; the funds can be used however the CP sees fit. If child abuse or neglect is suspected of the CP, then a referral to child welfare services is made.

I can understand the feeling, however whether she/he takes that specific check and spends it on nails or beer, is not the other parents business.

Think of the money for child support as a reimbursement check, for monies the primary parent has already spent that month for the child.

reimbursement?

I think when a man participates sexually with a woman there is no such thing as reimbursement. The man has much of a responsibility to the child as the woman. This is 50/50. I'm surprised you had the audacity to write what you wrote.

I'm not one of those men that thinks delivering a child makes you a demi-god. Sorry, I don't subscribe to that. People make choices. Nobody told women to have a baby. These are choices these women make.

I also don't subscribe to the notion that women who get child support have a right to spend it on what they need. Spending money on nails does not support the child, it supports personal luxury. Spending child support on beer does not support the child, it supports a potential habit.

Incorrect.

Unless there is evidence of neglect or abuse, the custodial parent cannot be compelled to justify the spending of child support. It is assumed by the court that the custodial parent is caring for the child(ren) in an appropriate manner, otherwise the court would not have awarded custody.

The absent parent is always free to petition the court for a review of the court order should he suspect any violations of that order.

 

[koshergrl]

The only unfair thing about child support the one who is paying it can't use it as a tax deduction I pay a thousand a month for one child and can't use it as a deduction

Why should you be able to use it as a tax deduction? I don't get a tax deduction for the money I spend on rent, food, clothing, lessons, medical costs for my children. Why should you?

And Amy is absolutely right...it's not tracked because it's meant to maintain a lifestyle for the children...it's not meant to be spent JUST on the children directly. Whether it's spent on rent, mom's clothing, the car, landscaping the yard, or vacations, those are things that add to the well being of the family and as such benefit the children.

Why should the woman be allowed to use child support as an income? And get the tax deduction?

Because the woman has the child.

 

[Conservative]

I can understand the feeling, however whether she/he takes that specific check and spends it on nails or beer, is not the other parents business.

Think of the money for child support as a reimbursement check, for monies the primary parent has already spent that month for the child.

I strongly disagree.

I am divorced, and have been since 2001. I paid child support until my two oldest were emancipated, and my youngest lives with me now (and has for the last few years). While I was paying support I would have freaked if I had discovered my ex spending the money I gave her, to support my children, on beer, nails, hair, etc.

Luckily she always spent the money on the kids (food, mortgage, clothing, etc.) and only spent her own money on herself. Also, not once did she ever have to ask me for the money. Without fail, it was in her account every 2 weeks, like clockwork. There wasn't a force in the universe that could have prevented me from supporting my children. I'd have lived in a cardboard box before I let them go without.

 

[Conservative]

I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?

what say me?


Men should pay for child support if they make a baby. If they dont want to pay child support...they should have kept their sperm to themselves.

some of us like to share

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Courts determine child support and custody predicated on the best interests of the child(ren), not what’s ‘fair’ or ‘unfair’ to either parent.

 

[Conservative]

Courts determine child support and custody predicated on the best interests of the child(ren), not what’s ‘fair’ or ‘unfair’ to either parent.

this.

 

[Full-Auto]

I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?

Big can of worms there.................

While its true many of our courts award custody to the non bread winner for a piece of the pie. It is also true that the system is very soft on irresponsible women. There wont be a solution. The State is vested in the status quo. IE the easiest place to get their cut.....

If they gave custody to the bread winner, there is no need for state services....Thus the underlying problem.......

 

[Salt Jones]

I was a single parent from my kids ages of 9 and 11 years old, until the youngest was 18. I never received a penny of child support from ex-wife, the court said she didn't have to pay. I was divorced when my youngest was 1.

I started paying child support before the divorce was final and continued until I was awarded sole custody. The 8 years between divorce and my gaining custody were eventful. I was awarded temporary custody for 2 years. The court ordered me to continue paying my ex-wife child support even though I had the kids. Due to state jurisdictional issues, I had to return my kids to my ex-wife. I did't see them again for 5 years. My ex didn't honor our custody orders and moved or changed phone numbers to keep me from contacting my kids. All the while my child support allotment kept going to her bank, I was active duty Navy during this time.

I was going to court the entire time to get my visitation enforced and no matter what she did, from leaving the state when visitation dates came or not answering the phone on our scheduled phone visits, I still paid child support.

Every time we went to court the first question I was asked: "Is your child support current?". No matter what she did, I was always asked about child support. The court gave her total disregard of a court ordered custody agreement equal weight with whether or not I missed a payment. In the end, I won sole custody. My ex-wife was ordered to pay 33% of my legal fees, pay me $5,000 and was given 5 years probation for repeatedly and excessively violating the court orders.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?

Big can of worms there.................

While its true many of our courts award custody to the non bread winner for a piece of the pie. It is also true that the system is very soft on irresponsible women. There wont be a solution. The State is vested in the status quo. IE the easiest place to get their cut.....

If they gave custody to the bread winner, there is no need for state services....Thus the underlying problem.......

True you do have a point.

 

[Full-Auto]

I was a single parent from my kids ages of 9 and 11 years old, until the youngest was 18. I never received a penny of child support from ex-wife, the court said she didn't have to pay. I was divorced when my youngest was 1.

I started paying child support before the divorce was final and continued until I was awarded sole custody. The 8 years between divorce and my gaining custody were eventful. I was awarded temporary custody for 2 years. The court ordered me to continue paying my ex-wife child support even though I had the kids. Due to state jurisdictional issues, I had to return my kids to my ex-wife. I did't see them again for 5 years. My ex didn't honor our custody orders and moved or changed phone numbers to keep me from contacting my kids. All the while my child support allotment kept going to her bank, I was active duty Navy during this time.

I was going to court the entire time to get my visitation enforced and no matter what she did, from leaving the state when visitation dates came or not answering the phone on our scheduled phone visits, I still paid child support.

Every time we went to court the first question I was asked: "Is your child support current?". No matter what she did, I was always asked about child support. The court gave her total disregard of a court ordered custody agreement equal weight with whether or not I missed a payment. In the end, I won sole custody. My ex-wife was ordered to pay 33% of my legal fees, pay me $5,000 and was given 5 years probation for repeatedly and excessively violating the court orders.

That is damn sad Salt......I have heard countless stories just like this......

However you hung tough and never gave up on the kids.

Hat Tip Sir

 

[Salt Jones]

I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?

Big can of worms there.................

While its true many of our courts award custody to the non bread winner for a piece of the pie. It is also true that the system is very soft on irresponsible women. There wont be a solution. The State is vested in the status quo. IE the easiest place to get their cut.....

If they gave custody to the bread winner, there is no need for state services....Thus the underlying problem.......

I agree. I never missed a child support payment in 6 years and started paying before the divorce was final. But, in the final two years of my custody fight the state ordered me to stop paying my ex directly and to start paying into the state's child support system, at a $40 monthly fee. They wanted to make sure I would pay.

 

[Salt Jones]

I was a single parent from my kids ages of 9 and 11 years old, until the youngest was 18. I never received a penny of child support from ex-wife, the court said she didn't have to pay. I was divorced when my youngest was 1.

I started paying child support before the divorce was final and continued until I was awarded sole custody. The 8 years between divorce and my gaining custody were eventful. I was awarded temporary custody for 2 years. The court ordered me to continue paying my ex-wife child support even though I had the kids. Due to state jurisdictional issues, I had to return my kids to my ex-wife. I did't see them again for 5 years. My ex didn't honor our custody orders and moved or changed phone numbers to keep me from contacting my kids. All the while my child support allotment kept going to her bank, I was active duty Navy during this time.

I was going to court the entire time to get my visitation enforced and no matter what she did, from leaving the state when visitation dates came or not answering the phone on our scheduled phone visits, I still paid child support.

Every time we went to court the first question I was asked: "Is your child support current?". No matter what she did, I was always asked about child support. The court gave her total disregard of a court ordered custody agreement equal weight with whether or not I missed a payment. In the end, I won sole custody. My ex-wife was ordered to pay 33% of my legal fees, pay me $5,000 and was given 5 years probation for repeatedly and excessively violating the court orders.

That is damn sad Salt......I have heard countless stories just like this......

However you hung tough and never gave up on the kids.

Hat Tip Sir

I was raised to take care of my family and that's what I was trying to do. The best birthday gift I ever received was a letter from my daughter thanking me for not giving up and getting them out of that mess. Of course my ex told all kinds of lies about me forgetting about them and never calling or wanting to visit them.

 

[Full-Auto]

I am in no way defending the irresponisbility of men who lack the fortitude to take care of their own responsibility as an adult, but I firmly believe any system that awards someone with money ought to be tracked. I'm not sure about you guys but I meet far too many men with no representation regarding child support and the issues they face regarding money. How is it that the state can track EBT payments but not child support? I personally believe the system is unfair towards responsible men and are soft on irresponsible women....What say ye?

Big can of worms there.................

While its true many of our courts award custody to the non bread winner for a piece of the pie. It is also true that the system is very soft on irresponsible women. There wont be a solution. The State is vested in the status quo. IE the easiest place to get their cut.....

If they gave custody to the bread winner, there is no need for state services....Thus the underlying problem.......

I agree. I never missed a child support payment in 6 years and started paying before the divorce was final. But, in the final two years of my custody fight the state ordered me to stop paying my ex directly and to start paying into the state's child support system, at a $40 monthly fee. They wanted to make sure I would pay.

Yes..................The fee........ Sadly in many cases the State is more concerned with the FEE then the actual welfare of the children. You have my profound respect Sir. We need more fathers like you..Willing to take on what ever comes our way for the children.....

Now that half of all births here are to single parents...Means...Rough times ahead......