Chicken Came Before the Egg: "Scientific Proof"

[hjmick]

Both theories require faith

Would you rather believe you are the decendent of a retarded fish squirrel or a spiritual being created from love.

I'll go with "retarded fish squirrel." To me, the idea that all we see is the result of evolution is more amazing, and dare I say more miraculous, than an act of, for lack of a better word, magic.

Don't get me wrong, I begrudge no one their faith nor do I condemn their beliefs, whatever floats your boat, I say.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Where did that earlier egg bearing ancestor get the protein?

Most likely, it was a mutation, which either spread through genetic drift or conveyed some advantage to those creatures bearing it.

It is possible that it was actually one of the earliest proteins to ever develop, rather than a mutation as we understand the term, and that all other species lost it, rather than the species in question gaining it, but that is far less likely.

Evolution 101

Nonetheless, the chicken came before the egg, unless you can point to evidence that says otherwise. If all you have is conjecture and supposition, you loose.

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

 

[Yurt]

Both theories require faith

Would you rather believe you are the decendent of a retarded fish squirrel or a spiritual being created from love.

I'll go with "retarded fish squirrel." To me, the idea that all we see is the result of evolution is more amazing, and dare I say more miraculous, than an act of, for lack of a better word, magic.

Don't get me wrong, I begrudge no one their faith nor do I condemn their beliefs, whatever floats your boat, I say.

this is one of the reasons i respect you

you have your faith and allow others to have theirs without smearing them and trying to box them all in as racists etc....

more people should have your patience

 

[hjmick]

Both theories require faith

Would you rather believe you are the decendent of a retarded fish squirrel or a spiritual being created from love.

I'll go with "retarded fish squirrel." To me, the idea that all we see is the result of evolution is more amazing, and dare I say more miraculous, than an act of, for lack of a better word, magic.

Don't get me wrong, I begrudge no one their faith nor do I condemn their beliefs, whatever floats your boat, I say.

this is one of the reasons i respect you

you have your faith and allow others to have theirs without smearing them and trying to box them all in as racists etc....

more people should have your patience

Thank you for the kind words my friend.

I for one see no need to belittle or smear someone for their faith or their beliefs. I can't imagine how doing so would make me a better person and there are more important things that concern me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Most likely, it was a mutation, which either spread through genetic drift or conveyed some advantage to those creatures bearing it.

It is possible that it was actually one of the earliest proteins to ever develop, rather than a mutation as we understand the term, and that all other species lost it, rather than the species in question gaining it, but that is far less likely.

Evolution 101

Nonetheless, the chicken came before the egg, unless you can point to evidence that says otherwise. If all you have is conjecture and supposition, you loose.

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

Take it up with the people who proved what they did, not me.

The amazing thing about this is how the religious people look at this and see proof of God, and atheists look at this and want to deny it. It is just a data point, and proves nothing by itself. Accept it as what it is, evidence that the chicken came first. Whatever the exact mechanism involved, the modern chicken existed before the modern chicken egg.

 

[JBeukema]

Nonetheless, the chicken came before the egg, unless you can point to evidence that says otherwise. If all you have is conjecture and supposition, you loose.

The hilarity of you posting conjecture and declaring it fact then claiming someone else who has made no assertions regarding which came first only has conjecture...


You level of stupidity is astounding.

You are truly astounding, you say something is conjecture even though it isn't, then insist that, just because someone claims it proves something it does not, that it is wrong. Why don't you just take the time to point out that having a chicken lay an egg only proves that chicken lay eggs? Instead you try to insist that the possibility exists that the protein came from somewhere else, and this proves that the egg came first. Unless you can provide something besides your dislike of the finding, the chicken came first, because the protein has to be present or the egg will not mature.

Reptiles laid eggs long before chickens existed.

You've evidence that none of the other species in the chicken's evolutionary past laid eggs?

 

[Douger]

Think I'll go make myself an omelette.

Murderer.
Poor little pre-born chickenz.

 

[froggy]

Nonetheless, the chicken came before the egg, unless you can point to evidence that says otherwise. If all you have is conjecture and supposition, you loose.

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

Take it up with the people who proved what they did, not me.

The amazing thing about this is how the religious people look at this and see proof of God, and atheists look at this and want to deny it. It is just a data point, and proves nothing by itself. Accept it as what it is, evidence that the chicken came first. Whatever the exact mechanism involved, the modern chicken existed before the modern chicken egg.

Well you screen name fits you good, because you are a windbag.

 

[froggy]

What they found was a protein, called ovocledidin-17 (OC-17), that exists only in a (chicken's ovaries )and is vital to eggshell formation in chickens. The protein acts as an ongoing builder that pieces microscopic parts of the shell together by converting calcium carbonate into calcite crystals. The shell would not exist without this protein, which only exists in chickens, so the end result is that the chicken came first.

So by this finding, no matter which animal your referring to, the animal had to come first. That points to creation being the way we arrived here.

 

[JBeukema]

That points to creation being the way we arrived here.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The hilarity of you posting conjecture and declaring it fact then claiming someone else who has made no assertions regarding which came first only has conjecture...


You level of stupidity is astounding.

You are truly astounding, you say something is conjecture even though it isn't, then insist that, just because someone claims it proves something it does not, that it is wrong. Why don't you just take the time to point out that having a chicken lay an egg only proves that chicken lay eggs? Instead you try to insist that the possibility exists that the protein came from somewhere else, and this proves that the egg came first. Unless you can provide something besides your dislike of the finding, the chicken came first, because the protein has to be present or the egg will not mature.

Reptiles laid eggs long before chickens existed.

You've evidence that none of the other species in the chicken's evolutionary past laid eggs?

Most reptiles lay soft shelled eggs, as do most amphibians. Did you even read the article and look at the paper it referred to? Go read what we are discussing and perhaps you will realize that we are not talking about reptiles, we are talking about warm blooded, egg laying, vertebrates, and the protein that specifically hardens the shell of chicken eggs after they are layed, allowing them to mature into chickens.

 

[froggy]

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Why? In order for the chicken to have come first, it had to have come from something other than A CHICKEN EGG, otherwise, the EGG would have come first.

Someone prove that wrong.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What they found was a protein, called ovocledidin-17 (OC-17), that exists only in a (chicken's ovaries )and is vital to eggshell formation in chickens. The protein acts as an ongoing builder that pieces microscopic parts of the shell together by converting calcium carbonate into calcite crystals. The shell would not exist without this protein, which only exists in chickens, so the end result is that the chicken came first.

So by this finding, no matter which animal your referring to, the animal had to come first. That points to creation being the way we arrived here.

How do shells on other eggs form?

Possessing one enzyme is not enough to define a bird as being in the chicken species.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Nonetheless, the chicken came before the egg, unless you can point to evidence that says otherwise. If all you have is conjecture and supposition, you loose.

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

Take it up with the people who proved what they did, not me.

The amazing thing about this is how the religious people look at this and see proof of God, and atheists look at this and want to deny it. It is just a data point, and proves nothing by itself. Accept it as what it is, evidence that the chicken came first. Whatever the exact mechanism involved, the modern chicken existed before the modern chicken egg.

It depends on how you define a chicken egg..

1. as an egg laid by a chicken, or,

2. as an egg from which a chicken hatched, or,

3. Both.

You tell me.

 

[froggy]

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Why? In order for the chicken to have come first, it had to have come from something other than A CHICKEN EGG, otherwise, the EGG would have come first.

Someone prove that wrong.

Unless the chicken was created first.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Why? In order for the chicken to have come first, it had to have come from something other than A CHICKEN EGG, otherwise, the EGG would have come first.

Someone prove that wrong.

Unless the chicken was created first.

This is about, i assume, whether or not the chicken or the chicken egg came first, correct?

If the chicken came first, then it had to have come from somewhere other than from a chicken egg (where ALL chickens come from now).

So where did it come from? I say it had to have developed in an egg that wasn't a chicken egg, BUT,

can an egg that produces a baby chicken NOT be a chicken egg?

If so, how?

 

[KissMy]

If the chicken came first, where did it come from?

They told you in the article:

it just came from across the road.

 

[JBeukema]

So at some point in time, birds that were not chickens laid eggs that were not chicken eggs,

but chickens came out of them.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Why? In order for the chicken to have come first, it had to have come from something other than A CHICKEN EGG, otherwise, the EGG would have come first.

Someone prove that wrong.

A probable scenario: at some point a mutation (or several) led to hardened eggs in Chickens or an evolutionary ancestor. Later on, as evolution continued, they lost the ability to develop without this protein's effect on the egg. The manner in which the eggs changed over time. Likely, the hardened egg proved to be evolutionarily advantageous and whatever other characteristics or behaviors were present before, no longer selected evolutionary pressures, happened to fade away with muttion and genetic drift.

I'm not familiar enough with the details of chicken evolution to hypothesize what ancestral species might have undergone these changes or what other aspect of their development might have changed, although it certainly seems clear that the emergence of this protein and its effect must predate the changes that would come to make the chicken dependent upon it, much as the emergence of the ability to metabolize food as we know it must have predated the total loss of the ability to absorb nutrients through other means.

 

[JBeukema]

Why? In order for the chicken to have come first, it had to have come from something other than A CHICKEN EGG, otherwise, the EGG would have come first.

Someone prove that wrong.

Unless the chicken was created first.

This is about, i assume, whether or not the chicken or the chicken egg came first, correct?

If the chicken came first, then it had to have come from somewhere other than from a chicken egg (where ALL chickens come from now).

So where did it come from? I say it had to have developed in an egg that wasn't a chicken egg, BUT,

can an egg that produces a baby chicken NOT be a chicken egg?

If so, how?

A species' reproductive process evolves along with the rest of its characteristics and attributes.

Keep that in mind.