Cheney May Still Get His

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by sealybobo, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    The world may finally get to read the Bush administration’s infamous “torture memo,” the Aug. 1, 2002, document that provided legal cover for the brutal and humiliating treatment of detainees in George W. Bush’s “war on terror.”

    Though the general contents of that memo have been described in books, congressional reports and news articles, the document itself was kept as a highly classified secret by the Bush administration.

    In its first two months in office, the Obama administration has released several other legal memos relating to Bush’s expansive views of his powers, but has withheld key memos on the “enhanced interrogation techniques.”

    On Thursday, the Justice Department said it had negotiated an extension to a court deadline in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the ACLU seeking interrogation-related documents, in part, by agreeing to add the “torture memo” to other documents that might be released within two weeks.

    The Justice Department had been deliberating whether to release three legal memos from May 2005 that, in effect, reaffirmed Bush’s right to authorize the harsh interrogations, after the earlier memos had been withdrawn in 2003 and 2004 by Deputy Attorney General Jack Goldsmith.

    But Goldsmith resigned in 2004 under White House pressure and his replacement as head of the powerful Office of Legal Counsel, Steven Bradbury, reasserted Bush’s sweeping powers in May 2005. Bradbury reissued some of the OLC’s opinions from 2002 and 2003 that argued that Bush’s Commander-in-Chief authority permitted him to override laws in the name of national security.

    I guess the question is, are we going to buy Bush/Cheney's spin on this, or are they going to be held accountable for breaking the law(s)?

    I say we go after them. Even if they do have friends in high places and they will never be found guilty, it is important to know the truth. Just think of how different our arguments will be if the actual truth comes out?

    And they say the reason Rumsfeld and Cheney were allowed back into politics is because Nixon was pardoned. So we shouldn't forgive and forget. Otherwise Dana Perino will be running for office in 8 years on her credentials from the Bush regime.

    So it is important to know the facts.

    Bottom line. Bush & Cheney made themselves above the law. Is that cool with you people or not?

    Justice Department May Finally Release Infamous 'Torture Memo'
     
  2. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you right in the face. I hope this administration goes after them and wastes all the money they can waste. The rest of America will sit and laugh their asses off..
     
  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    It rather difficult to respond to the charge without having read the memo, isn't it?
     
  4. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    Nice do there Willow.
     
  5. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Without knowing any of the facts, you sure are cocky.

    Because you think nothing will be done. And that is most likely true.

    As long as we know how it was done, I guess I'm ok with that. Because I just really don't want it to ever happen again. I'm not really looking to impeach cheney or send him to jail, even though I would love it.

    I just want our conversations to be more honest than they have been up until now.

    But you right wingers change positions as much as the direction of the wind changes. You'll just spin it so that "we are pussies for exposing this truth, and we have made our troops weaker, and our nation less safe"

    Or you will just stick to the defense that because it was a time of war, Bush had the power to break laws. You could actually be right.

    But they broke a lot of laws. Let us see where the truth takes us. There may come a point where Cheney went too far.

    You certainly wouldn't know if he was guilty, because I doubt Rush, Hannity or O'Reilly would tell you if he was.

    I'd put Cheney in the Muslim part of the prison and let the innocent people he tortured get their revenge.

    If only I believed Cheney did it to keep us safe. But that I leave up to gullible right wingers like you.
     
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  6. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    Should we investigate Harry Truman for dropping the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagisaki? He too must have thought himself above the law.
     
  7. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Do you have some information that suggests a conspiracy on it?

    I do. Why didn't we drop the bomb on the Germans? Was it because they were white and the Japanese are not?

    Racism???

    PS. We also executed Japanese Generals for waterboarding in WW2. Did you know?
     
  8. Tech_Esq
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    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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    I think at the end of the day this discussion doesn't advance the ball at all. The issue is over "enhanced interrogation techniques" and whether those techniques amount to "torture." There is almost no international agreement on what "torture" is per se.

    Sure we can all agree that bamboo shoots under the fingernails is torture, but the difficulty comes when the questioned acts amount to less than that. When, in fact, there is no physical damage to the body, is it still torture? That's where the gray area comes in.

    In this situation, I think the worst thing I've heard of is waterboarding. We probably all know by now that this is a psychological technique where one is made to think they are drowning. In fact, because of the positioning of the body, it is nearly impossible for the subject to actually drown. As a side note, we routinely do this to our service people going through SEER training. How odd it would be if the only people that could legally be waterboarded is our own military.

    But I digress, the legal question, if you are going to try to pin this on Cheney, is whether he could have/should have relied on the legal opinion penned by the Justice Dept.? If not, what weight should be given to the memo? The Vice-President was a layman, not a lawyer, if a lawyer tells him it's legal, what basis does he have to refute it? (If he wanted to). For the lawyer in the Justice department, it's a more difficult question. He would have to say why the enhanced techniques did not rise to the level of torture when used either singly or in combination.

    So, it seems to me the person in real jeopardy is the lawyer who said "This isn't torture, so it's okay to do."
     
  9. ItsFairmont
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    ItsFairmont Member

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    Don't worry about it. It's only torture.


    We're not talking sex with interns here. Now that is worth a 75 million dollar investigation.
     
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  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    OLC's opinion should always be the final word? Usually it is, but then there's NOW:

    Some in Justice Department See D.C. Vote in House as Unconstitutional

     

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