Cheney defends Gitmo and Water Boarding

[Chris]

It is a FACT that water boarding is extremely EFFECTIVE with prisoners who have information to tell. Of course, if you're waterboarding someone who doesn't know anything, it won't work at all.

We have tested water boarding on some of the biggest, toughest, mentally strongest people in our military. They have all stated that it takes about 30 seconds before they are ready to give up any & all information.

You are the author of this thread. YOU heard Dick Chenney state that they received a "wealth" of information from the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks & you deliberately deleted that statement from your brain. So obviously waterboarding DOES WORK with high level targets that actually have information to tell.

Let's go one step further: IS WATERBOARDING TORTURE? Is sleep deprivation torture? My definition of torture, is someone who is physcially beaten, bones broken, electricution, finger nails, teeth etc. In other words physical bodily harm.

Waterboarding & sleep deprivation have never once caused physical bodily harm. Waterboarding gives the "sensation" of drowning, without the risk of drowning. It causes absolutely no physical bodily damage. Therefore to me, it's not what I consider torture, but more a very effective tool in getting information from reluctant-knowledgable-terrorists.

CRISS YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION?--if terrorists captured one of your loved ones. A person you love more than life. The terrorists are going to kill your loved one within hours. One of them is caught & will not disclose where your loved one is. All the sweet-talking, donuts & coffee is not working. The terrorist is just sitting there, with the biggest grin on his face watching the clock tick down. Be honest now: Would you actually tell the interregators to not use any tactics, including waterboarding on this terrorist to save your loved ones life?

It is a fact that waterboarding is a very effective recruiting tool for AQ.

When you waterboard, you create more terrorists.

 

[Steerpike]

It is a fact that waterboarding is a very effective recruiting tool for AQ.

When you waterboard, you create more terrorists.

That falls into the category of a supposition, not a demonstrable fact.

 

[Tech_Esq]

It is a fact that waterboarding is a very effective recruiting tool for AQ.

When you waterboard, you create more terrorists.

Only if people talk about it. Waterboarding should be a very intimate and quiet affair. When and if necessary.

 

[Chris]

That falls into the category of a supposition, not a demonstrable fact.

No, it has been demonstrated in Iraq. Matthew Alexander testified to the fact.

We are in a political war. It can only be won politically. There are ONE BILLION muslims in the world, and we need their help to defeat extremism.

 

[Steerpike]

No, it has been demonstrated in Iraq. Matthew Alexander testified to the fact.

We are in a political war. It can only be won politically. There are ONE BILLION muslims in the world, and we need their help to defeat extremism.

A statement in testimony isn't inherently a fact.

 

[Tech_Esq]

No, it has been demonstrated in Iraq. Matthew Alexander testified to the fact.

We are in a political war. It can only be won politically. There are ONE BILLION muslims in the world, and we need their help to defeat extremism.

I haven't seen any evidence they are interested in defeating extremism. I do agree that it is their job more than ours. It's their religion that's being subverted for evil purposes. And, it is their countries that are at risk for ending up as the next battlefields.

The stakes are very high.

 

[SwingVoter]

There are ONE BILLION muslims in the world, and we need their help to defeat extremism.

and just why should they want to help us? they're told by their governments we're evil people regardless of what we do

Also, Egypt's illiteracy rate is 30%, Yemen's 45, Pakistan's over 50%, this is why their government's make heavy use of imagery and street posters to spread vile hate of the West, whether we're all peace loving hippies or Dick Cheneys.

One thing we need to do is reconsider relationships with the have-it-both-ways Saudis, Egyptians, and Pakis, who say nice things publicly and then trash us privately. I actually think Iran and Syria are less of a threat because they don't even bother trying to play to world opinion. But Musharraf played Bush like a fiddle, because that idiot couldn't understand some countries manufacture hate because they've figured how to be against us by pretending to be with us.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'd like to see a statistic that proves that "waterboarding creates terrorists".

That's about the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time..and I hear many stupid things a day.

 

[oreo]

It is a fact that waterboarding is a very effective recruiting tool for AQ.

When you waterboard, you create more terrorists.

That's B.S. Waterboarding DOES NOT create more terrorists, it's very effective at CATCHING THEM.

You still have not answered the question, so I will keep asking it:

CRISS ANSWER MY QUESTION? I have asked this 3 times now, & you have avoided it.

If terrorists captured one of your loved ones. A person you love more than life. The terrorists are going to kill your loved one within hours. One of them is caught & will not disclose where your loved one is. All the sweet-talking, donuts & coffee is not working. The terrorist is just sitting there, with the biggest grin on his face watching the clock tick down. Be honest now: Would you actually tell the interregators to not use any tactics, including waterboarding on this terrorist to save your loved ones life?

 

[Red Dawn]

We sentenced Japanese soldiers to death and hung them for waterboarding americans.

I'm still amazed that Republicans can cheer for torture.

 

[oreo]

I'd like to see a statistic that proves that "waterboarding creates terrorists".

That's about the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time..and I hear many stupid things a day.

100% AGREED--Note that Criss will still not answer my question.Waterboarding has been very effective at catching terrorists, not creating them.

 

[oreo]

No, it has been demonstrated in Iraq. Matthew Alexander testified to the fact.

We are in a political war. It can only be won politically. There are ONE BILLION muslims in the world, and we need their help to defeat extremism.

We need to get rid of the terrorists that are killing Muslims FIRST. Do you actually believe that an Iraqi that just lost his family to a slaughter by a Muslim suicide bomber would have minded us waterboarding a comrade in terror to save his family?

CRISS ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU KEEP AVOIDING: If terrorists captured one of your loved ones. A person you love more than life. The terrorists are going to kill your loved one within hours. One of them is caught & will not disclose where your loved one is. All the sweet-talking, donuts & coffee is not working. The terrorist is just sitting there, with the biggest grin on his face watching the clock tick down. Be honest now: Would you actually tell the interregators to not use any tactics, including waterboarding on this terrorist to save your loved ones life?

 

[Grismonda]

I'd like to see a statistic that proves that "waterboarding creates terrorists".

That's about the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time..and I hear many stupid things a day.

Vice President Dick Cheney said that even if there had been no evidence of WMDs, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons and no attempts to harm America, we would have invaded Iraq anyway.

Events have shown that indeed there were no WMDs, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons and no plans to attack America on the part of Iraq.

This speaks volumes about the intent of the Bush administration, undercuts everything he and the President and all the neocon apologists and hawks have said during the past five years of invasion and the 7 months prior which led to the war...

Not a word about bin Laden, 9/11 etc.... It was all about invading Iraq. We would have done so no matter what.

I'm sure the Vice President's remarks come as great solace to the families of the dead, the wounded, and those Americans still risking life and limb in that shitbag country.

It also shows very clearly the characters of the men we've chosen as leaders for the past eight years. It will be interesting to see how the people who still believe that Bush and Cheney are honorable and decent people defend their heroes.....

 

[oreo]

We sentenced Japanese soldiers to death and hung them for waterboarding americans.

I'm still amazed that Republicans can cheer for torture.

Japanese were NEVER hung or even got their hands slapped for waterboarding. The Japanese did not use waterboarding. Where in the heck do you people come from? Where you born yesterday.

The Japanese during WW2 were the most brutal to be captured by during WW2. They used extremely HARSH tactics, including starvation, beatings, & murder. Waterboarding was never used by the Japanese, in fact they would have laughed at that tactic because it would have been too easy. They never abided by the Geneva convention.

This statement is the most absurd I have seen lately. And it's a flat out LIE.

 

[oreo]

Vice President Dick Cheney said that even if there had been no evidence of WMDs, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons and no attempts to harm America, we would have invaded Iraq anyway.

Events have shown that indeed there were no WMDs, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons and no plans to attack America on the part of Iraq.

This speaks volumes about the intent of the Bush administration, undercuts everything he and the President and all the neocon apologists and hawks have said during the past five years of invasion and the 7 months prior which led to the war...

Not a word about bin Laden, 9/11 etc.... It was all about invading Iraq. We would have done so no matter what.

I'm sure the Vice President's remarks come as great solace to the families of the dead, the wounded, and those Americans still risking life and limb in that shitbag country.

It also shows very clearly the characters of the men we've chosen as leaders for the past eight years. It will be interesting to see how the people who still believe that Bush and Cheney are honorable and decent people defend their heroes.....

The liberal theme ast typical--They're loosing the battle here on the claim that the American torture machine brought in foreign fighters, & the claim that waterboarding creates more terrorists--SO TIME TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. he.he.he.

 

[jillian]

Japanese were NEVER hung or even got their hands slapped for waterboarding. The Japanese did not use waterboarding. Where in the heck do you people come from? Where you born yesterday.

The Japanese during WW2 were the most brutal to be captured by during WW2. They used extremely HARSH tactics, including starvation, beatings, & murder. Waterboarding was never used by the Japanese, in fact they would have laughed at that tactic because it would have been too easy. They never abided by the Geneva convention.

This statement is the most absurd I have seen lately. And it's a flat out LIE.

You are so ill-informed.

Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime - washingtonpost.com

 

[Grismonda]

The liberal theme ast typical--They're loosing the battle here on the claim that the American torture machine brought in foreign fighters, & the claim that waterboarding creates more terrorists--SO TIME TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. he.he.he.

No, these neocon cowards have no shame whatsoever.... Cheney will never be prosecuted, and will die untainted by the havoc he's wrought and the harm he's caused.

And it won't be soon enough to suit me if it happened today.

 

[Old Rocks]

Japanese were NEVER hung or even got their hands slapped for waterboarding. The Japanese did not use waterboarding. Where in the heck do you people come from? Where you born yesterday.

The Japanese during WW2 were the most brutal to be captured by during WW2. They used extremely HARSH tactics, including starvation, beatings, & murder. Waterboarding was never used by the Japanese, in fact they would have laughed at that tactic because it would have been too easy. They never abided by the Geneva convention.

This statement is the most absurd I have seen lately. And it's a flat out LIE.

During World War II both Japanese troops, especially the Kempeitai, and the officers of the Gestapo,[54] the German secret police, used waterboarding as a method of torture.[55] During the Japanese occupation of Singapore the Double Tenth Incident occurred. This included waterboarding, by the method of binding or holding down the victim on his back, placing a cloth over his mouth and nose, and pouring water onto the cloth. In this version, interrogation continued during the torture, with the interrogators beating the victim if he did not reply and the victim swallowing water if he opened his mouth to answer or breathe. When the victim could ingest no more water, the interrogators would beat or jump on his distended stomach.[56][57]

Chase J. Nielsen, one of the U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbor, was subjected to waterboarding by his Japanese captors.[58] At their trial for war crimes following the war, he testified "Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I’d get my breath, then they’d start over again... I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death".[30]
Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Red Dawn]

Japanese were NEVER hung or even got their hands slapped for waterboarding. The Japanese did not use waterboarding. Where in the heck do you people come from? Where you born yesterday.

The Japanese during WW2 were the most brutal to be captured by during WW2. They used extremely HARSH tactics, including starvation, beatings, & murder. Waterboarding was never used by the Japanese, in fact they would have laughed at that tactic because it would have been too easy. They never abided by the Geneva convention.

This statement is the most absurd I have seen lately. And it's a flat out LIE.

Motherfucker, I have no patience for lying, torture loving, two time Bush voting frauds like yourself.

The Tokyo War Crimes trials are a historical fact, and we prosecuted and hung Japanese for using water boarding and other toruture methods on Americans.

You know who says so? John Fucking McCain.

JOHN MCCAIN: " ... following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding." --John McCain on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 in a campaign event in St. Petersburg

History supports McCain’s stance on waterboarding


PolitiFact | History supports McCain’s stance on waterboarding

 

[Old Rocks]

The fact that 'conservatives' defend torture simply shows that the particular mindset of the modern conservative is criminal. Bush and Cheney, indeed, all that advocated the use of torture, should be jailed for the rest of their natural lives.

Our invasion of Iraq on the basis of lies created by Bush and Cheney will forever be a stain on our nation. Our actions and incredible incompetance in the whole of the Iraq FUBAR is evidence that the modern conservative is living in an alternative universe when it comes to reality. We did not get Bin Laden because of the incompetance of this administration. We earned the world's loathing because of the criminal actions of this administration. We have become little better than the old USSR in terms of morality because of this administration. But the modern conservative believes that it was all neccessary. What awful fools, what deluded contemptable cretins willing to trade in their humanity for cheap lying slogans. What treasonous support for actions and ideas totally in opposition to all that this nation was based on.