Cheney defends Gitmo and Water Boarding

[Chris]

so how much longer will we tolerate the muslim schools that teach their children to hate America, and to hate infidels?

you're in Virginia, Congressman Wolf has called for an investigation of the Islamic Saudi Academy in that state, which has been telling kids that Israel doesn't exist

fine if you're against war, but appeasement is not winning over hearts and minds, especially when they refuse to stop teaching hate

Who said anything about appeasement? This is a political war, and it has to be fought in a smart way.

 

[DiamondDave]

I posted an interview with the man who interrogated the foreign fighters in Iraq. He said their main motivation for coming to Iraq was torture at Gitmo and Abu Ghaib. You chose to ignore these facts. Too bad for you.

What idiots like Cheney don't realize is that we are in a political war, not a military one. The "war on terror" cannot be won by military means. It has to be won in the hearts and minds of the one billion muslims in the world. Things like torture and killing only provides our enemies with recruiting tools for the young and impressionable recruits that they seek. Bush and Cheney are the best recruiters AQ ever had. Obama is their worst nightmare.

keep with your slogans and 1 person examples, Kirkybot... paints a clearer picture of your idiocy every time you do it

Obama is AlQ's or a terrorist's worst nightmare

 

[oreo]

it was a lot more than just a pair of underwear on some guys' head and you know it. at least one man died from the abuse he suffered at the hands of the American military while being held in abu grab and many others were humiliated and tortured.

and if you're interested in being treated like the prisoners at Gitmo cool for you. I think the first think you should get is waterboarded. Which I admit I had to look up to see what it was because I had no idea





and you guys need to realize that just because they don't value human life doesn't give us the right to act like them. Who are we really if we torture people? we're just as bad as they are, maybe worse, because they make no apologies or excuses for their behavior.



that's right, you keep believing that it's everyone's fault except our own. I'm sure that gives you some measure of comfort but it's factually inaccurate. OSB said he began to hate America when we invaded Iraq the first time, during Bush 41 presidency. I'm sure the treatment of the Iraqi people only bolsters their cause, if it's not directly responsible for it.



I'm sorry but you're a fucking idiot. You actually believe it's okay to keep people in prison without trial and without legal representation? This is AMERICA you stupid fuck.

You're talking like we're some third world country or something. I do wonder though, when the world gets sick of our tyranny, will you be shocked when they invade us and overtake our government and say they are doing it for the good of the people of this country?



and when exactly did Osama say this? before or after we invaded?

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Bush says SO WHAT that Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq until after the U.S. invaded. GMAB the man is a lunatic.



you can defend and spin it anyway you like but the facts are the facts. Those on the right refuse to acknowledge that President Bush and his administration are largely responsible for how hated America is. It started with his father and he finished the job.

So then we were attacked on 9/11 because President Bush was "so" hated by the entire world?

Need I remind you that we were also attacked on 4 different occasions during the Clinton adminstration by radical islamic terrorists--aka Al Queda. I doubt I'll ever hear one of you say that Bill Clinton was also hated by the "world"!

You liberals choose to ignore all logical rational. As far as the Abu-Graid incident. underware on some insugents head, & whatever other pictures were taken by 7 U.S. soldiers was not the cause of the war, nor was the cause of foreign fighters coming into Iraq. Simple logic would indicate to you that foreign fighters coming into Iraq to "save Iraqi's from American torture" would never consider slaugthering thousands of Iraqi's at the same time. Also there was not on single insurgent physically hurt by those 7 soldiers. They were not beaten, shocked, raped, or murdered.

Again--if you want some facts, I want YOURS. Give me one single islamic radical's name that called for foreign fighters to enter Iraq over the Abu Graid incident, in order to save Iraqi's from the American torture machine. It is FACT--that most of these foreign fighters entered Iraq prior to the Abu Graid incident. The Fallujah battle was "before" the Abu Graid incident.

You liberals have swallowed the America is "always" at fault when there is a republican in office. Personally I can't wait to blame democrats--for every single terrorist attack in the world. In fact, it's already started in India. I can't wait to BLAME Barack Obama when he is installed as Commander & Chief for every single incidence of 1 single U.S. soldier getting out of line with a prisoner of war. At that time I will award every liberal on this board the medal of stupidy & then hang it around your necks.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Cheney is an idiot.

Most of the foreign fighters who came to Iraq came there because they believed Americans were torturing prisoners.

It doesn't matter, it's only important that they came. If you don't understand that then you haven't a clue what Iraq was about.

 

[Tech_Esq]

OMG, after all of this there is still people that think like you. That's really scary. Newsflash - Iraq was BULLSHIT! It had nothing to do with 9/11, and sweetheart, all those weapons Hussein used on his people WE SOLD HIM. Oh, and we also were instrumental in putting him in power. And lets ot forget Cheney saying in 1994 that invading Iraq was an awful idea, but then becomes VP and Haliburton can make a bunch of money and he changes his mind. Cheney is an evil bastard

I also find it hilarious that we're supposed to be the leader in morality and the beacon of light around the world when it comes to human rights but we believe in water boarding and torturing!! Hilarious, what's next? Castration? If that's the case then just send an American woman, their great at castration

You sound like you have a lot of personal problems. I'm glad you found some way to let it out.

Further, it sounds like you have been living in an echo chamber where everyone you know thinks the same crazy way you do. You might try to get out in the world a little more.

 

[dilloduck]

It doesn't matter, it's only important that they came. If you don't understand that then you haven't a clue what Iraq was about.

Kirk read one guys interview---he knows how thigns relly are there

 

[Andrew2382]

View attachment $untitled.bmp

 

[Tech_Esq]

Kirk read one guys interview---he knows how thigns relly are there

I wonder if it was a real guy or a "fictionalized" guy. The product of a left-wing fantasy about the way they think a soldier would feel. Speculation, but highly probable and just the type of thing Kirk would buy.

I was talking to my son the other day (who was an Infantryman in Mosul in 2005/2006) and what's worse than what this thread is about is that the weapons we were using were not very effective inside buildings. The rounds on the M4 are apparently so high velocity, and the ranges so close, that they would zip right through the body and not start the typical 5.56 mm "tumble" that typically kills people. So they would usually have to shoot them 10 or 11 times before they would die. This naturally created a very dangerous situation for our troops. We probably should have been equipping them with shotguns for that job.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Who said anything about appeasement? This is a political war, and it has to be fought in a smart way.

That leaves you out.

 

[oreo]

It doesn't matter, it's only important that they came. If you don't understand that then you haven't a clue what Iraq was about.

"It doesn't matter now"!!!!!!! Well how about that. This thread is YOURS! YOUR THREAD IS about blaming the United States for torture & mal treatment of prisoners. It's about the FALSE claim that foreign fighters came into Iraq to save Iraqi's from the American torture machine.

Now, you say it doesn't matter because they came anyway????? Well yeah, they came to stop a democracy from forming in the middle east. Along with them they slaughtered thousands of Iraqi's in their failed strategy. These foreign fighters could give a rats ass about the safety & security of the Iraqi people, let alone if they were tortured. Isn't that more than obvious?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Torture doesn't work. Read the article at this link....

I'm Still Tortured by What I Saw in Iraq - washingtonpost.com

I'd like to put that theory to the test. Care to role play? You have a secret and I'll see if I can torture out of you or not.

On a more serious note, we should definitely use methods that are most successful. I think everyone just wants the information to come out. However, I liken this to the energy debate where Repubs want an all of the above approach to energy independence. The important point is energy independence. The Dems don't want that though, they only want energy independence that is consonant with their political views.

Here it is the same thing. I want the information. I'm not overly particular about how I get it. If it is more effective to have a therapy session with the enemy, fine. If it's more effective to throw a few out of helicopters, I'm good with that too. Just give me the info damn it.

 

[Chris]

I wonder if it was a real guy or a "fictionalized" guy. The product of a left-wing fantasy about the way they think a soldier would feel. Speculation, but highly probable and just the type of thing Kirk would buy.

I was talking to my son the other day (who was an Infantryman in Mosul in 2005/2006) and what's worse than what this thread is about is that the weapons we were using were not very effective inside buildings. The rounds on the M4 are apparently so high velocity, and the ranges so close, that they would zip right through the body and not start the typical 5.56 mm "tumble" that typically kills people. So they would usually have to shoot them 10 or 11 times before they would die. This naturally created a very dangerous situation for our troops. We probably should have been equipping them with shotguns for that job.

You are really embarrassing yourself. A "fictionized guy?"

Click the link below to see him interviewed by John Stewart...

Matthew Alexander | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

 

[Chris]

I'd like to put that theory to the test. Care to role play? You have a secret and I'll see if I can torture out of you or not.

On a more serious note, we should definitely use methods that are most successful. I think everyone just wants the information to come out. However, I liken this to the energy debate where Repubs want an all of the above approach to energy independence. The important point is energy independence. The Dems don't want that though, they only want energy independence that is consonant with their political views.

Here it is the same thing. I want the information. I'm not overly particular about how I get it. If it is more effective to have a therapy session with the enemy, fine. If it's more effective to throw a few out of helicopters, I'm good with that too. Just give me the info damn it.

I suggest you ask John McCain.

 

[Tech_Esq]

"It doesn't matter now"!!!!!!! Well how about that. This thread is YOURS! It's about blaming the United States for torture & mal treatment of prisoners. It's about the FALSE claim that foreign fighters came into Iraq to save Iraqi's from the American torture machine.

Now, you say it doesn't matter because they came anyway????? Well yeah, they came to stop a democracy from forming in the middle east. Along with them they slaughtered thousands of Iraqi's in their failed strategy. These foreign fighters could give a rats ass about the safety & security of the Iraqi people, let alone if they were tortured. Isn't that more than obvious?

Settle down big O. It all depends what you think the goal was. I'm not one of those who think governments lay all their cards on the table and fight by the "Marquis of Queensbury" rules.

IMO, Iraq was fought because we needed a place to engage the Islamofascists that was not too inconvenient for us to fight in (like Afghanistan) or them to get to (like Afghanistan). We needed a place where we could knock of massive numbers of their already trained fighters while we strengthened the defenses of the US. Iraq was the perfect place for that. (Apologies to the Iraqi people for using their country as a battlefield).

I know this comes as a shock for those that think the US is pure as the driven snow and would never do such a thing, but I think it is supported by the evidence. You will recall at one point ole foot in mouth nearly let the cat out of the bag saying, "Bring it on." A clear reference to such a strategy.

I can go on, but I'm not trying to write a book in one post. For now suffice it to say there were several strategic reasons for fighting in Iraq and wanting to attract the Islamofascists to Iraq.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I suggest you ask John McCain.

I haven't read John McCain's biography, but I have met and read Capt. Red McDaniel's book (he was held by the North Vietnamese over 8 years) and Jeremiah Denton's book. You may recall him. He blinked S.O.S. when they filmed him for propaganda purposes an extremely creative move. And, Sergeant Moody, an Army Air Corps sergeant and participant in the Bataan Death march. His book dealing with his treatment at the hands of the Japanese.

The point is, there is a large library of people who have endured as much or worse than McCain and their opinions on the subject as described in their books inform the topic. If you think that torture does not work, you're wrong according to them. The difficult part is that you are likely to get partial and incorrect information as well. The recipient of the information must be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

None of this should be taken to mean that we should grab people up and immediately throw them on the rack and let the torture begin!! Far from it. I think we should use tried and true interrogation techniques. If those fail and there is a reason to believe that this person holds information that is critical enough to national security or safety, then there may be a process of approval that goes beyond typical techniques and we shouldn't talk about it.

 

[Tech_Esq]

You are really embarassing yourself. A "fictionized guy?"

Click the link below to see him interviewed by John Stewart...

Matthew Alexander | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Far from it dummy. First, you should learn how to spell. Second, I was not saying he did not exist. I was pointing out that you tend to buy into specious sources. Third, you just proved my point by posting something that you expect people to take seriously from some comedian's site.

 

[Andrew2382]

The Daily Show is serious stuff

 

[Tech_Esq]

The Daily Show is serious stuff

I get sarcasm

 

[Chris]

Far from it dummy. First, you should learn how to spell. Second, I was not saying he did not exist. I was pointing out that you tend to buy into specious sources. Third, you just proved my point by posting something that you expect people to take seriously from some comedian's site.

Specious sources?

Matthew Alexander took down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq.....

"I should have felt triumphant when I returned from Iraq in August 2006. Instead, I was worried and exhausted. My team of interrogators had successfully hunted down one of the most notorious mass murderers of our generation, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the mastermind of the campaign of suicide bombings that had helped plunge Iraq into civil war. "

I'm Still Tortured by What I Saw in Iraq - washingtonpost.com

I guess when the facts are not on your side, all you have left is insults.

 

[Chris]

The Daily Show is serious stuff

Very serious in fact.