Check this chart of top marginal taxes for decades

[8537]

Which protection/ benefit is available to the rich that is not equally available to the poor?

Protection of the private and intellectual property related to the owned means of production. You don't have to buy car insurance for cars you don't own.

And you have the same right/protection of your intellectual and private property as well...

Indeed. Just like I can buy car insurance for a Yugo....and I will pay multiples less than the person insuring a Lamborghini.

Again.. you apparently have severe jealousy over those that have earned more,

Diamond, you have no idea how much I earn. Suffice to say that I pay at the very rate you are claiming I would be jealous of.

and want to use the government as some sort of tool to equalize outcome... which is inherently against the freedoms this country was founded upon

it's not a tool to equalize outcome.

 

[DiamondDave]

The protection of intellectual and private property rights is a far larger benefit to those that own the means of production than those that don't.

So you would be against protection of intellectual and private property rights because people can benefit from what they have amassed from their efforts, choices, etc?

how you get from the statement that the wealthy have more to protect to "you would be against protection of intellectual property...yada...yada..." I haven't got a clue.

What a person does with a freedom should be of no concern to you.. only the fact that you have the exact same freedom should matter.. whether or not you do anything with it is nobody else's business

indeed, I don't care what people do with their freedoms. I DO care if I am forced to pay a disproportionate amount to protect anothers freedoms.

You are again equating freedoms with an amount of something...

And the poor are not paying a disproportionate amount to protect the rich... as shown so many times closer to ~50% of citizens are now paying ZERO income taxes... if anything it is the rich that are paying disproportionate into the taxation system

Equal freedoms... equal % taxation on every dollar earned by every last citizen... not some pseudo punishment inspired Robin Hood 'feel good' system of taxation where the freedoms of those who you want to pay your share mean nothing

 

[DiamondDave]

Protection of the private and intellectual property related to the owned means of production. You don't have to buy car insurance for cars you don't own.

And you have the same right/protection of your intellectual and private property as well...

Indeed. Just like I can buy car insurance for a Yugo....and I will pay multiples less than the person insuring a Lamborghini.

Again.. you apparently have severe jealousy over those that have earned more,

Diamond, you have no idea how much I earn. Suffice to say that I pay at the very rate you are claiming I would be jealous of.

and want to use the government as some sort of tool to equalize outcome... which is inherently against the freedoms this country was founded upon

it's not a tool to equalize outcome.

But your freedom is not more or less than my freedom or Bum X's freedoms and protections... you are comparing a product to freedoms protected by our government.. not even REMOTELY the same thing

I don't care if you earn 20K, 200K, or 200MIL... and unlike you I think you should be taxed the exact same rate on each of those dollars as every other citizen

 

[8537]

Note the term available in my question. Just because someone makes more money and has more assets than another does not mean that he has more protection guaranteed by government.

Of course he does. People with more assets have more to protect - try telling your homeowners insurer that you want to pay the same rates as the guy down the street in a half-abandoned mobile home.

 

[8537]

So you would be against protection of intellectual and private property rights because people can benefit from what they have amassed from their efforts, choices, etc?

how you get from the statement that the wealthy have more to protect to "you would be against protection of intellectual property...yada...yada..." I haven't got a clue.

What a person does with a freedom should be of no concern to you.. only the fact that you have the exact same freedom should matter.. whether or not you do anything with it is nobody else's business

indeed, I don't care what people do with their freedoms. I DO care if I am forced to pay a disproportionate amount to protect anothers freedoms.

You are again equating freedoms with an amount of something...

No, I'm equating the amount of protection required for "x" vs. the amount of protection required for "y". taxes aren't a way to distribute freedom. They are a method to fund government, and in this case fund the government's protection of property.

And the poor are not paying a disproportionate amount to protect the rich... as shown so many times closer to ~50% of citizens are now paying ZERO income taxes... if anything it is the rich that are paying disproportionate into the taxation system

Every person who works contributes about 15.65% of their first 106,000 in taxes. Every person who buys something pays a tax. Every person who owns a home pays property taxes....I could go on.

 

[konradv]

LOL TM how much do you get paid to spew your crap?

How much do you get paid to waste our time?

 

[DiamondDave]

how you get from the statement that the wealthy have more to protect to "you would be against protection of intellectual property...yada...yada..." I haven't got a clue.


indeed, I don't care what people do with their freedoms. I DO care if I am forced to pay a disproportionate amount to protect anothers freedoms.

You are again equating freedoms with an amount of something...

No, I'm equating the amount of protection required for "x" vs. the amount of protection required for "y". taxes aren't a way to distribute freedom. They are a method to fund government, and in this case fund the government's protection of property.

And the poor are not paying a disproportionate amount to protect the rich... as shown so many times closer to ~50% of citizens are now paying ZERO income taxes... if anything it is the rich that are paying disproportionate into the taxation system

Every person who works contributes about 15.65% of their first 106,000 in taxes. Every person who buys something pays a tax. Every person who owns a home pays property taxes....I could go on.

And the government exists to provide equal freedoms and rights to all citizens... and with those rights being equal, we currently have a system that is set up to treat persons unequally .. and as stated, your property (and it does not matter how much or little there is) is afforded the same protection as everyone else, just as you are afforded the same freedoms as everyone else.. what you do with it, how much of it you have, or whatever is not to be of your concern nor the government's concern... a dollar earned is a dollar earned, tax each one of those suckers identically for every citizen, whether it is dollar 1 or dollar 100000000

And the smokescreen of the progressive tax system... 'well everyone is taxed the same within each step of the ladder' a very clever way indeed to hide unequal treatment..

And we are talking income tax.. we are not talking gas tax, tobacco tax, sales tax, or airport service taxes.... ~50% of the citizenry pays ZERO in federal income taxes, which by nature is wrong

 

[8537]

And the government exists to provide equal freedoms and rights to all citizens... and with those rights being equal, we currently have a system that is set up to treat persons unequally .. and as stated, your property (and it does not matter how much or little there is) is afforded the same protection as everyone else, just as you are afforded the same freedoms as everyone else..

So you really do believe that the government should charge the same to insure and provide services for a mansion as a shack. OK then.

And the smokescreen of the progressive tax system... 'well everyone is taxed the same within each step of the ladder' a very clever way indeed to hide unequal treatment..

Do you always just make up that you claim the other person was thinking, and then knock down the strawman? That's interesting.

And we are talking income tax.. we are not talking gas tax, tobacco tax, sales tax, or airport service taxes.... ~50% of the citizenry pays ZERO in federal income taxes, which by nature is wrong

I'm not concerned with what you are talking about. and FYI a tax that is assessed at 15.65% of one's income is a tax on income. an income tax.

 

[johnrocks]

The person with more assets has more to protect due to the decisions he made in life or his family made but they do pay more for this protection with more insurance premiums, property taxes, capital gains taxes and even sales tax since they will buy more,naturally they will be taxed more.

If one wants to be fair to the poor, stop taxing the things they enjoy at such a high rate like beer and cigarettes.

 

[8537]

If one wants to be fair to the poor, stop taxing the things they enjoy at such a high rate like beer and cigarettes.

Cutting taxes on beer? Now you're talking my language!

 

[Big Fitz]

My question to you is this...

What does it matter to you if someone is rich?

Are rich deserving of unequal treatment by the government?

The rich gain the most benefit from protections that our government provides. It's not unequal treatment if the benefit is unequal.

Incorrect. The rich pay the most for the government they receive, while the poor receive government help for almost free AND are the primary recipients of aid.

Even with a flat tax percentage, the rich still are unequally burdened with the support of the government, but at least they are burdened that way by their own success.

The only true, equal tax would be to set a flat rate like $5000 a year, but then that penalizes the poor, to whom a flat fee would be an inordinate burden. But at least with this method, the rich would have a lot more money to give to charity without government picking their pocket or making think they have no responsibility to help their fellow man because their taxes are NOT going towards it. Oh wait... that gets government out of the charity business... as is constitutional.

 

[8537]

Incorrect. The rich pay the most for the government they receive, while the poor receive government help for almost free AND are the primary recipients of aid.

I love when people step into threads with broad-ranging "Incorrect!", " you are wrong!" proclamations.

Even with a flat tax percentage, the rich still are unequally burdened with the support of the government, but at least they are burdened that way by their own success.

The rich have far more to protect and receive far more protection.

 

[DiamondDave]

The rich have far more to protect and receive far more protection.

Absolutely wrong... the rich have the same freedoms and rights to protect as the poor... your comparison would also mean that a fat man would have more protection than a skinny man, as there is more of him to protect

You continue to equate what people earn and derive from the freedoms they are afforded by the government to receiving more protection and freedom.. this argument is inherently false

 

[8537]

The rich have far more to protect and receive far more protection.

Absolutely wrong...

you should explain that to the people who provide homeowners insurance.

the rich have the same freedoms and rights to protect as the poor...

They also have ownership of more goods, services and intellectual property which the government protects.

your comparison would also mean that a fat man would have more protection than a skinny man, as there is more of him to protect

The value of a fat man is no higher than the value of a skinny man.

You continue to equate what people earn and derive from the freedoms they are afforded by the government to receiving more protection and freedom.. this argument is inherently false

Gawd this board is funny. People make broad proclamations like "this argument is false!" and expect, somehow, that others should will just agree with them via force of their intellect and high post count. maybe that's what a high post-count does to ya. It's a difference of opinion, Diamond Dave. Everyone's free to have one...even the poor folks!

 

[syrenn]

cause her sorry ass don't pay taxes. anybody who paid taxes ain't actually gonna agree they should pay MORE taxes.. see?

And please dont forget the part that he thinks the money we pay in taxes is not OUR money and she feels that the country should spend more of our money on her pet ideas.

 

[Truthmatters]

National Taxpayers Union - History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates

this one goes all the way to 2008

lets remember what the numbers show guys

 

[DiamondDave]

National Taxpayers Union - History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates

this one goes all the way to 2008

lets remember what the numbers show guys

let tax the wealthy ( if you want to make it 400,000 a year fine) 91% again , it seemed to work prettty damned well.

Then you suport selective equality??

Can we bring it to the legal system, employment law, housing, and everything else??

Nah... I'll stick to supporting systems based on freedom and equal treatment.... not this Robin Hood bullshit of the greedy entitlement junkies

I'll ask it again for you to state it one way or another...

Do you then support selective equal treatment built in to the governmental system?

C'mon TM... I'll keep asking

 

[DiamondDave]

The rich have far more to protect and receive far more protection.

Absolutely wrong...

you should explain that to the people who provide homeowners insurance.



They also have ownership of more goods, services and intellectual property which the government protects.

your comparison would also mean that a fat man would have more protection than a skinny man, as there is more of him to protect

The value of a fat man is no higher than the value of a skinny man.

You continue to equate what people earn and derive from the freedoms they are afforded by the government to receiving more protection and freedom.. this argument is inherently false

Gawd this board is funny. People make broad proclamations like "this argument is false!" and expect, somehow, that others should will just agree with them via force of their intellect and high post count. maybe that's what a high post-count does to ya. It's a difference of opinion, Diamond Dave. Everyone's free to have one...even the poor folks!

And the value of the freedom of a rich man is no different than the value of freedom of a poor man... the protections afforded via government are exactly the same... your right to your property is the same as mine and is the same as the bum in central park west... what you amass as a result of your freedom is irrelevant

When your argument is false, it is false... it is as simple as that... you are free to have an opinion, even if it is inherently wrong... as I am free to point out the flaw in your thinking... and just because your argument is inherently false, your freedom to speak it is no greater or lesser than mine...

 

[Truthmatters]

National Taxpayers Union - History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates

this one goes all the way to 2008

lets remember what the numbers show guys

Then you suport selective equality??

Can we bring it to the legal system, employment law, housing, and everything else??

Nah... I'll stick to supporting systems based on freedom and equal treatment.... not this Robin Hood bullshit of the greedy entitlement junkies

I'll ask it again for you to state it one way or another...

Do you then support selective equal treatment built in to the governmental system?

C'mon TM... I'll keep asking

Everyone is treated the same.

they are tax points and when you reach these tax points you get taxed accordingly.

A CEO uses far more of the coutnries resources than I do, He prooves how much he uses it by how much he makes and then is taxed accordingly.

ANY American who makes that much is taxed the same.

You see silly it is equal treatment.

Its been long settled inb this country that we tax this way and you are merely spewing bullshit that means nothing.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)


What pattern jumps out at you?

Harding and Reagan's tax cuts generated economic growth while Hoover and FDR's tax increases created the Great Depression