Cheaper to sign up for Obamacare, or pay the penalty?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Little-Acorn, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Little-Acorn
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    Little-Acorn VIP Member

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    Reports are coming out now that say the cheapest Obamacare plan for a family of four, costs around $20,000.

    If that family does not sign up for Obamacare, and just pays the penalty it calls for, (oops, the Supremes say that's a "tax" now)... then how much to they pay?

    BTW, they pay the penalty only if they are due an Income Tax refund on April 15, right? If they have to write the govt a check on April 15 instead, then the govt can't charge them that Obamacare penalty.

    So, is that family of 4 better off financially if they don't sign up for Obamacare? And if one of them does get sick or injured, then they can sign up at that point, and the Obamacare insurance company must take them, even though the sickness or injury is now a "pre-existing condition".

    So, what's the best deal, dollar-wise? Pay $20,000 for Obamacare, or pay only the penalty on April 15 (which might be zero), and then sign up later if you get sick or injured and pay only that fraction of the $20,000? After you are cured, then of course you drop the Obamacare policy immediately, to minimize what you pay... until the next time you get sick.
  2. Greenbeard
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    Greenbeard VIP Member

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    No, premium numbers are coming out now that show that number isn't even half that.

    After the initial open enrollment period this year, there will be seven weeks each year in which an uninsured family can go shop for a private plan in an exchange. Get sick or injured outside of that seven week open enrollment window and all costs accrued belong solely to you. Which means you better time that heart attack or car accident just right if you want your scam to work.
  3. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Thanks for allowing the peasants that whole 7-weeek period to shop for insurance, Uncle Joe! :rolleyes:
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  4. Little-Acorn
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    Little-Acorn VIP Member

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    So, is it better financially for a family to sign up to pay $20,000/yr as the IRS has described? Or to drop Obamacare, pay the penalty (which could be zero), and sign up only when you get sick or injured, then dropping the policy after you're cured?
  5. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Might be better to cut to the chase and have a tax revolt.
  6. Little-Acorn
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    Little-Acorn VIP Member

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    The usual liberals seem to be avoiding this question like the plague.
  7. buckeye45_73
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    buckeye45_73 Lakhota's my *****

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    wow 7 days, thanks government I love my loss of freedom so buttboinkers like greenbeard can feel like they helped someone, when in reality they are hurting people!!!!!!!!!!!!
  8. LordBrownTrout
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    LordBrownTrout VIP Member

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    This is the scenario that they envisioned, an extra 30 million paying a 600-1000 dollar fine every year. An extra 30B to the govt...which they won't pay for insurance purposes. Another govt do gooder ponzi scheme but the uninformed think the govt is looking out for them.
  9. Greenbeard
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    Greenbeard VIP Member

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    Seven weeks. If you someday hold a job that offers benefits, the concept of open enrollment will become quite familiar to you. For now, ask your parents.
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  10. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Wow...Seven whole weeks!

    Does the benevolent patronage of Uncle Joe ever cease? :rolleyes:
  11. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    Considering that the median household income in the U.S. is a tad above $50,000, I doubt families are going to decide to spend 40% of their income just for a health care plan that covers things they neither want nor need.
  12. Flopper
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    First off, premiums of $20,000/yr are extremely unlikely. There is no evidence of this, just a story built on an assumption by a writer that the IRS assumed a $20,000 premium was typical in a penalty calculation in an IRS publication which is yet to be published.

    Secondly, 80% of the people will get their insurance though large group plans, Medicare, Medicaid, or other government healthcare plans. The pricing of these plans has no relation to the pricing of individual policies on healthcare exchange. Group policies are typically cheaper than individual plans.

    If you elect not to carry insurance, the penalty plus interest which will accumulate yearly and you will miss out on the tax credit for carrying insurance. If you or a family member has a serious accident or illness, you could end up paying all the of the cost because of the time lag between the time you sign up for insurance and the time it takes effect. Neither Medicaid nor private insurance is retroactive.

    Here is an estimate of cost for a person age 30 with an income of $35,000/yr and no dependents. A Bronze plan policy would cost $2739/yr after tax credits. For two adults with the same age and income and one child the plan would be $399/yr, a long way from the reported $20,000/yr. This will of course vary by state and providers.

    Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
  13. theDoctorisIn
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    Using a phrase like "sign up for Obamacare" makes it pretty clear that you have no idea what the law does.

    What do you think you'll need to "sign up" for?
  14. Missourian
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    Missourian Silver Member

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    So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

    • Less than $9,500 income = $0
    • $9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
    • $50,000 income = $1,000
    • $75,000 income = $1,600
    • $100,000 income = $2,250
    • $125,000 income = $2,900
    • $150,000 income = $3,500
    • $175,000 income = $4,100
    • $200,000 income = $4,700
    • Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan
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  15. Flopper
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    Flopper Silver Member

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    Family of 2 adults and 4 kids with $50,000 income yearly, cost is $348/yr. for the bronze plan which is 1.3% of family income.

    Family of 2 adults and 4 kids with $100,000 income yearly, cost is $7483/yr. for the bronze plan which is 4.8% of family income.

    These are estimated typical prices after tax credits for individual plans. Only about 20% of the people will be covered by individual plans. Most people will be covered by employee group plans or some type of government insurance.

    Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
  16. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Oh, and we can certainly rely upon the figures coming from one of the biggest pimps and propagandists for Obolshevikcare to be accurate! :rolleyes:
  17. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    I just ran the first scenario through the link you provided (assuming all are non-smokers). The results are:

    Unsubsidized premium = $11,786

    Amount you pay = $2,664

    Government subsidy = $9,122


    So, riddle me this...how many health 27 year olds will have to pay how many dollars to cover the subsidy?

    (and if you are going to provide tools and links, at least learn how to use them.)
  18. bendog
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    bendog Senior Member

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    Sort of off topic, but here's a story from Miss. The gop flat out refuses to expand medicaid, despite hospitals, insurance companies and providers supporting expansion. The dems are trying an end run.

    I don't like the general obamacare premise, but doing nothing is not an option. I know the guy whose name is on this bill, and he's a good guy .... for a plaintiff's lawyer (joke) It's more to my philosophical liking

    Cottonmouth: Democratic compromise plan on Medicaid expansion doesn't expand Medicaid
  19. Greenbeard
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    The KFF calculator is based on the notion that the family buys the 2nd cheapest silver plan because that's how the value of any family's subsidy is calculated.

    But they can take the subsidy and apply it to any plan in the market. If they buy a more expensive plan, they pay more for the premiums. But if they buy a cheaper plan (i.e. the cheapest silver plan or any bronze plan) they pay less. This "$20,000" nonsense is all aimed at the cheapest bronze plan in the market, which of course in reality is going to be less than $10,000. If the hypothetical family takes their tax credit and applies it to the cheapest bronze plan, they'll end up paying a few hundred dollars for the entire year (or as Flopper said, around 1.3% of their household income).
  20. Flopper
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    Flopper Silver Member

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    Not sure what you entered into the calculator but if you enter:
    1. 2014 Dollars
    2. 50,000 Annual Income
    3. No, employee coverage available
    4. 2 Adults 27, non-smokers
    5. 3 or more children non-smokers

    Results for a Silver Plan:
    179% of poverty level
    Unsubsidized Health Insurance Premium = 12,075
    Maximum Percent of Income you have to pay... = 5.33%
    Amount you have pay for premium =2,664
    Government tax subsidy = 9,412

    For the Bronze Plan:
    Premium is $597/yr
    With a 100,000 income
    Bronze Plan is $10,054

    The government substitutes do not come out of the premiums. Surely you know that.

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