Change the LEO arrest system.

[Dan Stubbs]

I am going to point out my observation of how the police take control and arrest suspects. They have changed how they take a person into custody. In the past days in law enforcement it was to take into body control with two officers if needed. Not 5 guys doing it. Today it almost seem that body contact is not done. The spin the suspect around and cuff. Now it looks like take him to the ground and cuff. Back then it was grab arm and do a wrist lock and twist forward fold arm under keeping wrist locked. This will put him on his knees. Keep going forward and put him on his belly. You then tell him to put his other arm behin his back put cuff on and put cuff on his arm you have under control. to get him up reach under cuffed wrist and grab collar and he will be up with pressure. Walk to car. If he start to resist just lean him foward and put him on the ground. It worked for 33 years or longer so what know.

 

[SavannahMann]

There is an old saying among Combat Soldiers. You go with what you know. The tactics you’ve been taught, the techniques you’ve been trained in. What you do is dependent upon what you’ve been taught.

To the situation where the police are more aggressive in an arrest, it goes with what they’re being trained. The problem is that they approach every situation like it is the one in a thousand oddity. There is certainly wisdom in taking precautions, but that wisdom sounds weak when you look at the results.

The problem is that the police are going for “control” which is an illusion at best. To gain that “control” they have been trained to begin swinging. Because one time out of a thousand, the less brutal arrest technique will result in an injured officer. The pain compliance technique doesn’t work for whatever reason, perhaps the arrestee is also trained, and knows how to get out of it. So the officers are trained and honestly believe if they don’t start the attack first, they risk injury or death. Those one in a thousand events become the norm.

Four decades ago, if the cop fired without seeing a gun, then it was a bad shooting. Then one of those one in a thousand events and now the cops can’t wait to see a gun. All they are doing is waiting for the twitch that tells them the baddie is going for a weapon. The result is that the training for that one in a thousand is getting cops in a lot of trouble. Not just legal trouble, but public relations trouble.

It gets worse when you add in the twisting of the narrative. When the cop tells a lie, or tells the truth in such a way to create a different image from what actually happened, then those who know the truth will view the cops with greater distrust.

We used to teach our children, I was taught, that you could trust the cops. Now, the wise parents are the ones telling their kids never talk to a cop, never tell them anything. Because anything you say will be taken out of context, or twisted to make you look guilty.

There was a story here in Savannah. A Holiday weekend approached. Friday morning the fifth grade boy got up, and put on the same pants he had worn the night before. He had been to a Cub Scout meeting, and he rushed through breakfast, and headed to school. He found a Cub Scout knife in his pocket. This knife, like a Swiss Army Knife, has little tools that fold away. The boy knew he wasn’t supposed to have it at school. He walked to the teacher and turned it in. The Teacher called the office, who took the boy, and called the police. The police took him to the Juvenile Detention facility, and kept him there over the long weekend.

The Judge was horrified. The boy had made a mistake, and just like we taught our children, he did what he was supposed to when he had a problem. He went to an adult, and told the truth. He spent the weekend in jail. He wasn’t threatening anyone, or trying to cause problems. He was a good boy, who made a mistake, and owned up to it. Everyone involved swore to the press that they had no choice, Zero Tolerance rules, and laws, meant that everyone did what they had to.

But that boy has grown up by now. Does anyone think he has forgotten that event? Does anyone believe he went to another adult besides his family if he had a problem? Does anyone believe he has any trust, or respect, for cops?

But there were other kids in the class. Kids who saw all of this, and heard about it. It doesn’t matter that the Judge dropped the charges on Tuesday Morning. It doesn’t matter that the Judge apologized to the boy and told him he had done the right thing, and how very sorry he was that the boy had spent the weekend in jail.

We used to use common sense. We used to use discretion. Now, we expect the cops to do the maximum, because their peers, and trainers, and evaluators, all expect them to do it, or dead cops will be the result.

Look at the board here my friend. See how many people cheer when a cop shoots an unarmed person. All the crap in the world is hanging off that belt, and they go for the gun because one time out of a hundred thousand the baddie might have a gun, so we have to shoot immediately, we can’t risk waiting.

West Virginia city pays former officer $175,000 to settle lawsuit after he decided not to shoot distraught suspect - CNN

How do you fire a cop for not shooting someone? You do that if you have a set of beliefs that revolves around the justification for violence. Instead of using your experience, and your brain, you’re supposed to just draw and shoot, or jump the baddie and pummel him half to death. If you don’t, you are risking your life, and the lives of your fellow cops.

It isn’t just in American anymore. It’s spreading like a virus around the world. Look at the first few minutes of the show Bodyguard from Britain. It is online. But it starts with our Hero on a train. He spots something suspicious and investigates. He finds a woman with a suicide vest. He talks to her, and gets her to agree not to detonate the bomb. Then the cops show up, and want him to move so they can shoot the woman, because it is too risky to allow her to stand there with a bomb. He refuses, and ends up hugging the woman until the bomb disposal person shows up to deactivate the bomb. This prevents them from shooting the woman, who is terrified.

You shoot if you have to. Not when you can. You use violence if you must, not when you can get away with it. Yes, I know the Bodyguard is both British, and fiction. But it is the mentality of the current world, and I’m a truth whore, I’ll take truth from any source, no matter where it is coming from.

 

[harmonica]

it looks good on paper and on Chips/TJ Hooker/Adam-12
but real life is different ....
many times these jackases do not want to be arrested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....guess what happens? force needs to be used and when you have to use force on something-someone, something will break

 

[harmonica]

There is an old saying among Combat Soldiers. You go with what you know. The tactics you’ve been taught, the techniques you’ve been trained in. What you do is dependent upon what you’ve been taught.

To the situation where the police are more aggressive in an arrest, it goes with what they’re being trained. The problem is that they approach every situation like it is the one in a thousand oddity. There is certainly wisdom in taking precautions, but that wisdom sounds weak when you look at the results.

The problem is that the police are going for “control” which is an illusion at best. To gain that “control” they have been trained to begin swinging. Because one time out of a thousand, the less brutal arrest technique will result in an injured officer. The pain compliance technique doesn’t work for whatever reason, perhaps the arrestee is also trained, and knows how to get out of it. So the officers are trained and honestly believe if they don’t start the attack first, they risk injury or death. Those one in a thousand events become the norm.

Four decades ago, if the cop fired without seeing a gun, then it was a bad shooting. Then one of those one in a thousand events and now the cops can’t wait to see a gun. All they are doing is waiting for the twitch that tells them the baddie is going for a weapon. The result is that the training for that one in a thousand is getting cops in a lot of trouble. Not just legal trouble, but public relations trouble.

It gets worse when you add in the twisting of the narrative. When the cop tells a lie, or tells the truth in such a way to create a different image from what actually happened, then those who know the truth will view the cops with greater distrust.

We used to teach our children, I was taught, that you could trust the cops. Now, the wise parents are the ones telling their kids never talk to a cop, never tell them anything. Because anything you say will be taken out of context, or twisted to make you look guilty.

There was a story here in Savannah. A Holiday weekend approached. Friday morning the fifth grade boy got up, and put on the same pants he had worn the night before. He had been to a Cub Scout meeting, and he rushed through breakfast, and headed to school. He found a Cub Scout knife in his pocket. This knife, like a Swiss Army Knife, has little tools that fold away. The boy knew he wasn’t supposed to have it at school. He walked to the teacher and turned it in. The Teacher called the office, who took the boy, and called the police. The police took him to the Juvenile Detention facility, and kept him there over the long weekend.

The Judge was horrified. The boy had made a mistake, and just like we taught our children, he did what he was supposed to when he had a problem. He went to an adult, and told the truth. He spent the weekend in jail. He wasn’t threatening anyone, or trying to cause problems. He was a good boy, who made a mistake, and owned up to it. Everyone involved swore to the press that they had no choice, Zero Tolerance rules, and laws, meant that everyone did what they had to.

But that boy has grown up by now. Does anyone think he has forgotten that event? Does anyone believe he went to another adult besides his family if he had a problem? Does anyone believe he has any trust, or respect, for cops?

But there were other kids in the class. Kids who saw all of this, and heard about it. It doesn’t matter that the Judge dropped the charges on Tuesday Morning. It doesn’t matter that the Judge apologized to the boy and told him he had done the right thing, and how very sorry he was that the boy had spent the weekend in jail.

We used to use common sense. We used to use discretion. Now, we expect the cops to do the maximum, because their peers, and trainers, and evaluators, all expect them to do it, or dead cops will be the result.

Look at the board here my friend. See how many people cheer when a cop shoots an unarmed person. All the crap in the world is hanging off that belt, and they go for the gun because one time out of a hundred thousand the baddie might have a gun, so we have to shoot immediately, we can’t risk waiting.

West Virginia city pays former officer $175,000 to settle lawsuit after he decided not to shoot distraught suspect - CNN

How do you fire a cop for not shooting someone? You do that if you have a set of beliefs that revolves around the justification for violence. Instead of using your experience, and your brain, you’re supposed to just draw and shoot, or jump the baddie and pummel him half to death. If you don’t, you are risking your life, and the lives of your fellow cops.

It isn’t just in American anymore. It’s spreading like a virus around the world. Look at the first few minutes of the show Bodyguard from Britain. It is online. But it starts with our Hero on a train. He spots something suspicious and investigates. He finds a woman with a suicide vest. He talks to her, and gets her to agree not to detonate the bomb. Then the cops show up, and want him to move so they can shoot the woman, because it is too risky to allow her to stand there with a bomb. He refuses, and ends up hugging the woman until the bomb disposal person shows up to deactivate the bomb. This prevents them from shooting the woman, who is terrified.

You shoot if you have to. Not when you can. You use violence if you must, not when you can get away with it. Yes, I know the Bodyguard is both British, and fiction. But it is the mentality of the current world, and I’m a truth whore, I’ll take truth from any source, no matter where it is coming from.

....we've been over this before and I've provided the facts/stats/links/etc about police shootings
Britain is a bad analogy-
1. Britain does not have near the guns the US has--not even close to being far!! not comparable
2.

In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The paper categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest.

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/
a·nal·o·gy
/əˈnaləjē/
noun

1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
   "an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"
   • a correspondence or partial similarity.
     "the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"
   • a thing that is comparable to something else in significant respects.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

There is an old saying among Combat Soldiers. You go with what you know. The tactics you’ve been taught, the techniques you’ve been trained in. What you do is dependent upon what you’ve been taught.

To the situation where the police are more aggressive in an arrest, it goes with what they’re being trained. The problem is that they approach every situation like it is the one in a thousand oddity. There is certainly wisdom in taking precautions, but that wisdom sounds weak when you look at the results.

The problem is that the police are going for “control” which is an illusion at best. To gain that “control” they have been trained to begin swinging. Because one time out of a thousand, the less brutal arrest technique will result in an injured officer. The pain compliance technique doesn’t work for whatever reason, perhaps the arrestee is also trained, and knows how to get out of it. So the officers are trained and honestly believe if they don’t start the attack first, they risk injury or death. Those one in a thousand events become the norm.

Four decades ago, if the cop fired without seeing a gun, then it was a bad shooting. Then one of those one in a thousand events and now the cops can’t wait to see a gun. All they are doing is waiting for the twitch that tells them the baddie is going for a weapon. The result is that the training for that one in a thousand is getting cops in a lot of trouble. Not just legal trouble, but public relations trouble.

It gets worse when you add in the twisting of the narrative. When the cop tells a lie, or tells the truth in such a way to create a different image from what actually happened, then those who know the truth will view the cops with greater distrust.

We used to teach our children, I was taught, that you could trust the cops. Now, the wise parents are the ones telling their kids never talk to a cop, never tell them anything. Because anything you say will be taken out of context, or twisted to make you look guilty.

There was a story here in Savannah. A Holiday weekend approached. Friday morning the fifth grade boy got up, and put on the same pants he had worn the night before. He had been to a Cub Scout meeting, and he rushed through breakfast, and headed to school. He found a Cub Scout knife in his pocket. This knife, like a Swiss Army Knife, has little tools that fold away. The boy knew he wasn’t supposed to have it at school. He walked to the teacher and turned it in. The Teacher called the office, who took the boy, and called the police. The police took him to the Juvenile Detention facility, and kept him there over the long weekend.

The Judge was horrified. The boy had made a mistake, and just like we taught our children, he did what he was supposed to when he had a problem. He went to an adult, and told the truth. He spent the weekend in jail. He wasn’t threatening anyone, or trying to cause problems. He was a good boy, who made a mistake, and owned up to it. Everyone involved swore to the press that they had no choice, Zero Tolerance rules, and laws, meant that everyone did what they had to.

But that boy has grown up by now. Does anyone think he has forgotten that event? Does anyone believe he went to another adult besides his family if he had a problem? Does anyone believe he has any trust, or respect, for cops?

But there were other kids in the class. Kids who saw all of this, and heard about it. It doesn’t matter that the Judge dropped the charges on Tuesday Morning. It doesn’t matter that the Judge apologized to the boy and told him he had done the right thing, and how very sorry he was that the boy had spent the weekend in jail.

We used to use common sense. We used to use discretion. Now, we expect the cops to do the maximum, because their peers, and trainers, and evaluators, all expect them to do it, or dead cops will be the result.

Look at the board here my friend. See how many people cheer when a cop shoots an unarmed person. All the crap in the world is hanging off that belt, and they go for the gun because one time out of a hundred thousand the baddie might have a gun, so we have to shoot immediately, we can’t risk waiting.

West Virginia city pays former officer $175,000 to settle lawsuit after he decided not to shoot distraught suspect - CNN

How do you fire a cop for not shooting someone? You do that if you have a set of beliefs that revolves around the justification for violence. Instead of using your experience, and your brain, you’re supposed to just draw and shoot, or jump the baddie and pummel him half to death. If you don’t, you are risking your life, and the lives of your fellow cops.

It isn’t just in American anymore. It’s spreading like a virus around the world. Look at the first few minutes of the show Bodyguard from Britain. It is online. But it starts with our Hero on a train. He spots something suspicious and investigates. He finds a woman with a suicide vest. He talks to her, and gets her to agree not to detonate the bomb. Then the cops show up, and want him to move so they can shoot the woman, because it is too risky to allow her to stand there with a bomb. He refuses, and ends up hugging the woman until the bomb disposal person shows up to deactivate the bomb. This prevents them from shooting the woman, who is terrified.

You shoot if you have to. Not when you can. You use violence if you must, not when you can get away with it. Yes, I know the Bodyguard is both British, and fiction. But it is the mentality of the current world, and I’m a truth whore, I’ll take truth from any source, no matter where it is coming from.

You are almost 100 percent right, I was talking about yesteryear but some of the tricks do work better then what they teach now. I went throght the Fla certification Training. Had a hard time with the soft touch method. He was a training officer in Tampa. We talked about the class and I failed and had to retake it. While talking we decided to test the old against the new. I took him down fast and cuffed. The new method I just kept pulling loose. He had me teach the method of yesteryear. I had to learn the Fla state method and was passed. I have noticed most LEOs shot are during traffic stops. Suspicious traffic stop I used a snub nose on the back of a clip board. Told that to many LEOs and they adopted the idea.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I am going to point out my observation of how the police take control and arrest suspects. They have changed how they take a person into custody. In the past days in law enforcement it was to take into body control with two officers if needed. Not 5 guys doing it. Today it almost seem that body contact is not done. The spin the suspect around and cuff. Now it looks like take him to the ground and cuff. Back then it was grab arm and do a wrist lock and twist forward fold arm under keeping wrist locked. This will put him on his knees. Keep going forward and put him on his belly. You then tell him to put his other arm behin his back put cuff on and put cuff on his arm you have under control. to get him up reach under cuffed wrist and grab collar and he will be up with pressure. Walk to car. If he start to resist just lean him foward and put him on the ground. It worked for 33 years or longer so what know.

In pulling a car over position you vehicle to the left of his at a distance of four car lengths to the rear. If you can put the police car at a left angle. A good rule if you have the room. Next never pull over a suspect on a curve on coming driver may not see you fast enough. Approach on the right side of the suspects car. Always look in the backseat. Watch for a trunk lid afar. Be careful.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I am going to point out my observation of how the police take control and arrest suspects. They have changed how they take a person into custody. In the past days in law enforcement it was to take into body control with two officers if needed. Not 5 guys doing it. Today it almost seem that body contact is not done. The spin the suspect around and cuff. Now it looks like take him to the ground and cuff. Back then it was grab arm and do a wrist lock and twist forward fold arm under keeping wrist locked. This will put him on his knees. Keep going forward and put him on his belly. You then tell him to put his other arm behin his back put cuff on and put cuff on his arm you have under control. to get him up reach under cuffed wrist and grab collar and he will be up with pressure. Walk to car. If he start to resist just lean him foward and put him on the ground. It worked for 33 years or longer so what know.

I was going threw some stuff I had in a box and found this rules of arrest sent to me by someone on a message board:


Officers will not stop persons for the sole purpose of determining immigration status.
Officers will not arrest a person when the only violation is an infraction of federal immigration law.
Officers will not contact ICE/Border Patrol for the sole purpose of interpreting.
Officers will not notify ICE/Border Patrol of undocumented persons under the following conditions:
? When the contacted person is a victim and/or witness of a crime
? When contacted during a family disturbance
? The enforcement of minor traffic offenses
? When the person(s) is/are seeking medical treatment

If an undocumented person is arrested, the decision to notify ICE will be based on the following criteria:
? If the offense is a minor traffic violation, ICE will not be notified. (Felony DUI offenders will be turned over to ICE when feasible.)
? If the offense is a misdemeanor and the person meets the cite-and-release criteria, an ATTC may be issued.
? ICE will not be notified by the Phoenix Police Department if the person is released.
? If the person will be released from police custody (not booked) pending further investigation, ICE will not be notified.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

There is an old saying among Combat Soldiers. You go with what you know. The tactics you’ve been taught, the techniques you’ve been trained in. What you do is dependent upon what you’ve been taught.

To the situation where the police are more aggressive in an arrest, it goes with what they’re being trained. The problem is that they approach every situation like it is the one in a thousand oddity. There is certainly wisdom in taking precautions, but that wisdom sounds weak when you look at the results.

The problem is that the police are going for “control” which is an illusion at best. To gain that “control” they have been trained to begin swinging. Because one time out of a thousand, the less brutal arrest technique will result in an injured officer. The pain compliance technique doesn’t work for whatever reason, perhaps the arrestee is also trained, and knows how to get out of it. So the officers are trained and honestly believe if they don’t start the attack first, they risk injury or death. Those one in a thousand events become the norm.

Four decades ago, if the cop fired without seeing a gun, then it was a bad shooting. Then one of those one in a thousand events and now the cops can’t wait to see a gun. All they are doing is waiting for the twitch that tells them the baddie is going for a weapon. The result is that the training for that one in a thousand is getting cops in a lot of trouble. Not just legal trouble, but public relations trouble.

It gets worse when you add in the twisting of the narrative. When the cop tells a lie, or tells the truth in such a way to create a different image from what actually happened, then those who know the truth will view the cops with greater distrust.

We used to teach our children, I was taught, that you could trust the cops. Now, the wise parents are the ones telling their kids never talk to a cop, never tell them anything. Because anything you say will be taken out of context, or twisted to make you look guilty.

There was a story here in Savannah. A Holiday weekend approached. Friday morning the fifth grade boy got up, and put on the same pants he had worn the night before. He had been to a Cub Scout meeting, and he rushed through breakfast, and headed to school. He found a Cub Scout knife in his pocket. This knife, like a Swiss Army Knife, has little tools that fold away. The boy knew he wasn’t supposed to have it at school. He walked to the teacher and turned it in. The Teacher called the office, who took the boy, and called the police. The police took him to the Juvenile Detention facility, and kept him there over the long weekend.

The Judge was horrified. The boy had made a mistake, and just like we taught our children, he did what he was supposed to when he had a problem. He went to an adult, and told the truth. He spent the weekend in jail. He wasn’t threatening anyone, or trying to cause problems. He was a good boy, who made a mistake, and owned up to it. Everyone involved swore to the press that they had no choice, Zero Tolerance rules, and laws, meant that everyone did what they had to.

But that boy has grown up by now. Does anyone think he has forgotten that event? Does anyone believe he went to another adult besides his family if he had a problem? Does anyone believe he has any trust, or respect, for cops?

But there were other kids in the class. Kids who saw all of this, and heard about it. It doesn’t matter that the Judge dropped the charges on Tuesday Morning. It doesn’t matter that the Judge apologized to the boy and told him he had done the right thing, and how very sorry he was that the boy had spent the weekend in jail.

We used to use common sense. We used to use discretion. Now, we expect the cops to do the maximum, because their peers, and trainers, and evaluators, all expect them to do it, or dead cops will be the result.

Look at the board here my friend. See how many people cheer when a cop shoots an unarmed person. All the crap in the world is hanging off that belt, and they go for the gun because one time out of a hundred thousand the baddie might have a gun, so we have to shoot immediately, we can’t risk waiting.

West Virginia city pays former officer $175,000 to settle lawsuit after he decided not to shoot distraught suspect - CNN

How do you fire a cop for not shooting someone? You do that if you have a set of beliefs that revolves around the justification for violence. Instead of using your experience, and your brain, you’re supposed to just draw and shoot, or jump the baddie and pummel him half to death. If you don’t, you are risking your life, and the lives of your fellow cops.

It isn’t just in American anymore. It’s spreading like a virus around the world. Look at the first few minutes of the show Bodyguard from Britain. It is online. But it starts with our Hero on a train. He spots something suspicious and investigates. He finds a woman with a suicide vest. He talks to her, and gets her to agree not to detonate the bomb. Then the cops show up, and want him to move so they can shoot the woman, because it is too risky to allow her to stand there with a bomb. He refuses, and ends up hugging the woman until the bomb disposal person shows up to deactivate the bomb. This prevents them from shooting the woman, who is terrified.

You shoot if you have to. Not when you can. You use violence if you must, not when you can get away with it. Yes, I know the Bodyguard is both British, and fiction. But it is the mentality of the current world, and I’m a truth whore, I’ll take truth from any source, no matter where it is coming from.

The story you told sound true, because I know a Cop who got arrested twice before becoming a Cop. One was justified, one was false. The true on was for driver lic expired out of state. Was jailed had to get lic. Next one was during a riot on the beach, a Cop Aux grabed him smacked him on the head and cuffed him. I should say it was a city cop. Judge turned him loose and suggested he stay off the beach. Several years later he was hired as a LEO and he said it did him good to get arrested it showed him what was wrong with some cops. He became a Command Officer and was real good at his job.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

it looks good on paper and on Chips/TJ Hooker/Adam-12
but real life is different ....
many times these jackases do not want to be arrested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....guess what happens? force needs to be used and when you have to use force on something-someone, something will break

Today Cop has to be pretty strong as in the old days, but you have to use your head, we on the old days roll call, had to know how to fight drunks, not drug heads which I think is harder. I remember my first day I was told backup is about 33 mins away so don't get into anything you can not get yourself out of. LOL and that is the truth.

 

[Natural Citizen]

People who want to be police officers are generally sociopaths. I had read a study on this a few years back about what police departments look for when screening potential cops, they generally prefer narcissistic type recruits.

All of the hero worship doesn't help matters because this just makes them feel justified.

Never talk to police. Ever. Not unless someone is dead or missing.