CDC: Accidental car deaths 2013...35,369. Accidental gun deaths 2013...505.

[2aguy]

Accidental discharge of firearms (W32-W34) 505

 

[Brain357]

And they don't exclude the LEO, they can't. Every time a copy draws his or gun, hopefully, it is in self defense.

Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....

You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....


GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

 

[2aguy]

And they don't exclude the LEO, they can't. Every time a copy draws his or gun, hopefully, it is in self defense.

Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....

You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....


GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

 

[2aguy]

For you brain...the brand new post...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Brain357]

And they don't exclude the LEO, they can't. Every time a copy draws his or gun, hopefully, it is in self defense.

Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....

You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....


GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

 

[Old Rocks]

Dear little corksmoker, I have owned guns for longer than you have been alive. And I have seen enough careless gun owners, and enough marketing of guns only good for killing humans, that I don't buy into your crap at all. This nation has far too many guns, and far too many citizens with guns that should not be allowed within ten feet of a gun. And people like you continue to do your best to make the situation even worse.

 

[JakeStarkey]

avg spams his own thread, loses a false comparison fallacy, and tells the biggest lie: no one is coming for his guns.

 

[rightwinger]

And Americans are 7,000 times more likely to drive, so your figures are out the window. Run along, silly boy.

Doesn't matter how much more they drive.....pile up the bodies....cars....35,369 guns 505....

You gun grabbers never say....criminals are more likely to murder innocent people so focus on them....no...you say grab all guns...make it more difficult for normal law abiding people to own guns even though they aren't the ones killing people.....

it isn't about criminals, it isn't about gun deaths....you guys have an irrational fear of guns....this post demonstrates that....

your energy would be put to better use stopping accidental auto deaths...you would save more lives...but no.....

You just want to get rid of guns...

And you are a fucking liar.

FastStats - Injuries

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

• Number of deaths: 33,804
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

All firearm deaths

• Number of deaths: 33,636
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015 - Bloomberg Business

While motor-vehicle deaths dropped 22 percent from 2005 to 2010, gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000, according to the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shooting deaths in 2015 will probably rise to almost 33,000, and those related to autos will decline to about 32,000, based on the 10-year average trend.

Not a liar fuck head....the stats are the stats.....Bloomberg is lying he is a gun grabber.....

And fuck head..suicides don't count...Japan and South Korea,have absolute gun control and their people commit suicide at 2 times our rate...


But gun grabbers lie....they lie in order to beef up the bodies they can exploit to go after guns so they have to use suicides to beef up their numbers....

Since accidental gun deaths are going down...only 505 in 2013 and gun murders are going down even as more Americans than ever are buying and carrying guns...only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.... The gun grabbers have to lie....otherwise reality doesn't help their agenda...

Suicides don't count...suicides don't count

Of course they count. Somebody pulled a trigger and is dead

Korea and Japan don't count. They are a different culture. Our culture kills itself because of depression. Their culture kills itself because of depression and loss of honor

Not a valid comparison

 

[rightwinger]

I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....

too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........

CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.

That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.

Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.

Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.

So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

 

[2aguy]

Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....

You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....


GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....

too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........

CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.

That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.

Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.

Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.

So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have failed guy with the false comparison from the beginning.

 

[2aguy]

I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....

too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........

CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.

That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.

Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.

Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.

So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

Actually, all of them affect the 2nd Amendment right of people with little money....they all cost money to do and if you are poor, and trapped in an inner city war zone...you can't afford insurance, a license, training.......you have created a new poll tax for the poor and especially poor minorities....the ones most likely to be killed by criminals with guns.....so yes...they do interfere with the 2nd amendment rights of Americans.......

 

[Moonglow]

Since guns are Right, and not a priveldge, any attempt at those things are equal to poll taxes and literacy tests for voting....and therefore are unconstitutional......

So yet again the OCD horse goes to town....

 

[2aguy]

And Americans are 7,000 times more likely to drive, so your figures are out the window. Run along, silly boy.

Doesn't matter how much more they drive.....pile up the bodies....cars....35,369 guns 505....

You gun grabbers never say....criminals are more likely to murder innocent people so focus on them....no...you say grab all guns...make it more difficult for normal law abiding people to own guns even though they aren't the ones killing people.....

it isn't about criminals, it isn't about gun deaths....you guys have an irrational fear of guns....this post demonstrates that....

your energy would be put to better use stopping accidental auto deaths...you would save more lives...but no.....

You just want to get rid of guns...

And you are a fucking liar.

FastStats - Injuries

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

• Number of deaths: 33,804
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

All firearm deaths

• Number of deaths: 33,636
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015 - Bloomberg Business

While motor-vehicle deaths dropped 22 percent from 2005 to 2010, gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000, according to the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shooting deaths in 2015 will probably rise to almost 33,000, and those related to autos will decline to about 32,000, based on the 10-year average trend.

Not a liar fuck head....the stats are the stats.....Bloomberg is lying he is a gun grabber.....

And fuck head..suicides don't count...Japan and South Korea,have absolute gun control and their people commit suicide at 2 times our rate...


But gun grabbers lie....they lie in order to beef up the bodies they can exploit to go after guns so they have to use suicides to beef up their numbers....

Since accidental gun deaths are going down...only 505 in 2013 and gun murders are going down even as more Americans than ever are buying and carrying guns...only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.... The gun grabbers have to lie....otherwise reality doesn't help their agenda...

Suicides don't count...suicides don't count

Of course they count. Somebody pulled a trigger and is dead

Korea and Japan don't count. They are a different culture. Our culture kills itself because of depression. Their culture kills itself because of depression and loss of honor

Not a valid comparison

No...they don't count because you don't need a gun to commit suicide as several countries show......Japan and South Korea in particular since they have absolute gun control...so no, they don't count in the total since banning guns won't stop our people from killing themselves......

 

[2aguy]

Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....

You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....


GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

Brain...according to the stats over 2.31 million people were injured in car accidents in 2013...right....so over 20 years that is over 40 million people injured in car accidents...right...

Well....I have been involved in 3 car accidents, my brother one motorcycle accident , one cousin in 2 rear end collisions, my mother in one t-bone accident....

And only one of us was ever injured.......so I guess that 40 million number is debunked....right.......since according to you we all must be injured to get to that number......

 

[JakeStarkey]

Reasonable fees are not constitutional infringements on 2dA rights.

 

[Vandalshandle]

avg spams his own thread, loses a false comparison fallacy, and tells the biggest lie: no one is coming for his guns.

I was getting ready to ask him if his lover is his left, or his right hand....

 

[2aguy]

Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....

You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....


GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

The NCVS is not a gun study.....again...it would be like asking people in a car study if they own a car, then what kind of car, and then if they answer they have a convertible asking them if they use any sort of protection from the sun for when the top is down....and then saying that this is a definitive study on the use of Sunscreen by Americans......and then you would be laughed out of what ever research group you belong to....

If you take the bus.....you would never get to the sunscreen question even if you use sunscreen because you are a construction worker or work outdoors......

that is why a gun study has to actually ask....did you use a gun as the main question...not a peripheral question that you sort of get around to after a bunch of other questions get the right result.....

 

[2aguy]

avg spams his own thread, loses a false comparison fallacy, and tells the biggest lie: no one is coming for his guns.

I was getting ready to ask him if his lover is his left, or his right hand....

Oh....you were shown to be a moron because you couldn't find the info. in the CDC report and you got your feelings hurt.....

 

[2aguy]

Reasonable fees are not constitutional infringements on 2dA rights.

They are when the prevent Americans from exercising that right...especially the poor......that is the biggest bitch that the anti voter i.d. cards use.......so dittos for the 2nd Amendment.....