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If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.
That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.
It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.
Safe from others.
If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.
Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.
When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.
It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.
They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.
brain...there are up to 90 million gun owners and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......not a problem....and suicide....does't count...since other methods besides guns will be used....so you are wrong again.......
If you are going to claim they make the owner safer then yes suicide does count. The most likely use of that gun is suicide, how is that making the owner safer?
Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........
It is neither. Concealed carry does not effect crime.
Did you do a study? No. you just decided you don't think concealed carry effects crime........that is very scientific of you......I have listed many studies on the topic that say it does...and the ones who say it doesn't....the ones who say concealed carry effects the crime rate are more.....the others...less....
Do we need a study when we have the real world? Chicago and Wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up in both. No study needed.
It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.
Safe from others.
If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.
Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.
When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.
It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.
They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.
brain...there are up to 90 million gun owners and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......not a problem....and suicide....does't count...since other methods besides guns will be used....so you are wrong again.......
If you are going to claim they make the owner safer then yes suicide does count. The most likely use of that gun is suicide, how is that making the owner safer?
If he didn't have the gun he would have still committed suicide brain.....the gun didn't make him depressed enough to kill himself.....pills, jumping off bridges and in front of trains.....works just as well as guns....so no...they don't count.....
They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.
Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........
It is neither. Concealed carry does not effect crime.
Did you do a study? No. you just decided you don't think concealed carry effects crime........that is very scientific of you......I have listed many studies on the topic that say it does...and the ones who say it doesn't....the ones who say concealed carry effects the crime rate are more.....the others...less....
Do we need a study when we have the real world? Chicago and Wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up in both. No study needed.
The entire country has over 11.1 million concealed carriers and the gun murder rate around the entire country is going down, not up.....Illinois just got concealed carry and Wisconsin just a few years ago....and the places resisting concealed carry, Chicago and Milwaukee...are the only places wheere the gun murder rate has temporarily gone up....and both places are also shorting their police forces for manpower........so nice try........
They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.
I have a pile of guns, and I have not the least fear I will ever intentionally shoot myself.
And what ISN'T dangerous. I almost dropped a car on myself once, I fell off a barn roof I was repairing, I sliced my hand on a jagged piece of metal...all of those because I didn't follow appropriate safety procedures (Use a jack stand, tie on a safety line, wear gloves).
The wife and I literally just came home from the shooting range. She got a new twelve gauge that she wanted to try. I took some 410s. I can't count the number of safety checks we did. Every time we touch a firearm we check it. It's automatic.
The world is a dangerous place, and you have to be careful. Whether you own a gun or not.
Moving on brain....it looks like muslims or someone may have just attacked cartoonists in texas.......they didn't make it.....
I'm glad you are very safe and hope you continue to be. But that doesn't mean that having guns around makes you safer. That is a false claim statistically. The most likely person by far to be shot by your gun is yourself. That does not make you safer.
I'm glad you are very safe and hope you continue to be. But that doesn't mean that having guns around makes you safer. That is a false claim statistically. The most likely person by far to be shot by your gun is yourself. That does not make you safer.
Only if the owner makes a decision that they want to end their own life, in which case, gun ownership is moot.
When 6,500+ Americans accidentally die of suffocation and only 505 accidentally die from firearms, firearm owners are doing a pretty damn good job.
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http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
I didn't say it makes you that much more unsafe. But claiming it makes you safer is clearly false.
Do we need a study when we have the real world? Chicago and Wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up in both. No study needed.
I didn't say it makes you that much more unsafe. But claiming it makes you safer is clearly false.
If there are 800,000 defensive uses of firearms per year, and just a miniscule 2% of them result in a saved life, that's 16,000 lives saved per year. All the murders and accidental deaths add up to what? 8,000? 8,500?
And that 2% is a super conservative figure.
Do we need a study when we have the real world? Chicago and Wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up in both. No study needed.
Anti-Second Amendment folks have in the past convinced law abiding woman and African Americans that guns themselves are the problem, not criminals with guns.
But thankfully, that wrongheaded perception is changing.
View attachment 40774
So give it some time, those areas will come around.
Gun owners are a minority of the population. So the most lives that could possibly be saved by defense with a gun is well under 8,500.
Gun owners are a minority of the population. So the most lives that could possibly be saved by defense with a gun is well under 8,500.
Funny you come up with that, but nobody really knows how many people own guns. The fact that in 2013 a record number of guns were sold tends to make one think there are far more than a handful of gun owners in the US. In fact there are estimated to be between 270 million and 310 million guns in the US, one for every man woman and child in our country.
If you think with 310 million guns that only 8500 lives could be saved in a calendar year you're far underestimating the power of the gun owner.
I didn't say it makes you that much more unsafe. But claiming it makes you safer is clearly false.
If there are 800,000 defensive uses of firearms per year, and just a miniscule 2% of them result in a saved life, that's 16,000 lives saved per year. All the murders and accidental deaths add up to what? 8,000? 8,500?
And that 2% is a super conservative figure.
There are only about 8,500 homicides each year. Gun owners are a minority of the population. So the most lives that could possibly be saved by defense with a gun is well under 8,500.
The more likely number of defenses each year is much closer to 100k per the NCVS.
What really makes you safer is not being involved in criminal activity.
I'm glad you are very safe and hope you continue to be. But that doesn't mean that having guns around makes you safer. That is a false claim statistically. The most likely person by far to be shot by your gun is yourself. That does not make you safer.
Only if the owner makes a decision that they want to end their own life, in which case, gun ownership is moot.
When 6,500+ Americans accidentally die of suffocation and only 505 accidentally die from firearms, firearm owners are doing a pretty damn good job.
View attachment 40772
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
