CBO: ObamaCare will save 1 trillion in Medicare costs by 2021

[Sun Devil 92]

Where is BillyFail ?

Hey Billy000, where are you ?

Coward.

 

[Arianrhod]

Frequently, that is to say always, government "savings" come about through various methods that have little to do with reality and usually are more along the lines of a wife saying to her husband, "I saved us $100 today because all the shoes I bought were on sale". The husband does not agree that buying $700 worth of shoes represents saving money. When government talks about "saving" money, it's usually from an inflated baseline and ignores what would have been saved had the spending never taken place. Hence, every such proclamation is taken with a very large grain of salt.

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

 

[hadit]

Frequently, that is to say always, government "savings" come about through various methods that have little to do with reality and usually are more along the lines of a wife saying to her husband, "I saved us $100 today because all the shoes I bought were on sale". The husband does not agree that buying $700 worth of shoes represents saving money. When government talks about "saving" money, it's usually from an inflated baseline and ignores what would have been saved had the spending never taken place. Hence, every such proclamation is taken with a very large grain of salt.

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

 

[Arianrhod]

Frequently, that is to say always, government "savings" come about through various methods that have little to do with reality and usually are more along the lines of a wife saying to her husband, "I saved us $100 today because all the shoes I bought were on sale". The husband does not agree that buying $700 worth of shoes represents saving money. When government talks about "saving" money, it's usually from an inflated baseline and ignores what would have been saved had the spending never taken place. Hence, every such proclamation is taken with a very large grain of salt.

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

Corporations rely on consumer ignorance.

 

[hadit]

Frequently, that is to say always, government "savings" come about through various methods that have little to do with reality and usually are more along the lines of a wife saying to her husband, "I saved us $100 today because all the shoes I bought were on sale". The husband does not agree that buying $700 worth of shoes represents saving money. When government talks about "saving" money, it's usually from an inflated baseline and ignores what would have been saved had the spending never taken place. Hence, every such proclamation is taken with a very large grain of salt.

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

Corporations rely on consumer ignorance.

And? I can still choose to give them my money or not. I have to give my money to government.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Frequently, that is to say always, government "savings" come about through various methods that have little to do with reality and usually are more along the lines of a wife saying to her husband, "I saved us $100 today because all the shoes I bought were on sale". The husband does not agree that buying $700 worth of shoes represents saving money. When government talks about "saving" money, it's usually from an inflated baseline and ignores what would have been saved had the spending never taken place. Hence, every such proclamation is taken with a very large grain of salt.

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

Corporations exist to maximize shareholder value. Sometimes that means doing the right thing...sometimes they don't. They have no real moral soul.

In theory, governments reflect the will of the people. In reality, they don't.

We, as the morons we are, have allowed government and corporations to team up to royally screw us.

You think you can chose not to interact with corporations, but in reality you do. You pay taxes that are used to provide food stamps (not saying they are a bad thing), and those food stamps buy an awful lot of goods from......get this....big corporations. Who do you think supports food stamps....???

Stupid people believe government helps them.

Stupid people also think corporations work in a free market.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

REPORT: Obamacare Saves Federal Government $1 Trillion in Medicare Costs (CHARTS)

Yep. It's done its job.

It's funny because you believe it.

 

[hadit]

Frequently, that is to say always, government "savings" come about through various methods that have little to do with reality and usually are more along the lines of a wife saying to her husband, "I saved us $100 today because all the shoes I bought were on sale". The husband does not agree that buying $700 worth of shoes represents saving money. When government talks about "saving" money, it's usually from an inflated baseline and ignores what would have been saved had the spending never taken place. Hence, every such proclamation is taken with a very large grain of salt.

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

Corporations exist to maximize shareholder value. Sometimes that means doing the right thing...sometimes they don't. They have no real moral soul.

In theory, governments reflect the will of the people. In reality, they don't.

We, as the morons we are, have allowed government and corporations to team up to royally screw us.

You think you can chose not to interact with corporations, but in reality you do. You pay taxes that are used to provide food stamps (not saying they are a bad thing), and those food stamps buy an awful lot of goods from......get this....big corporations. Who do you think supports food stamps....???

Stupid people believe government helps them.

Stupid people also think corporations work in a free market.

The more power government has, the more power is available for sale.

 

[Arianrhod]

And this opinion is only accurate when addressed to government excesses. No corporation would ever do such a thing, pass its profits on to its stockholders, and rip off its customers. That conversation in the other thread about the costs of cancer drugs, for example, has no bearing on this one.

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

Corporations rely on consumer ignorance.

And? I can still choose to give them my money or not. I have to give my money to government.

Actually, in large part you're paying the government in taxes what corporations aren't. But because it's a hidden cost, you're unaware of it and, in my experience, when it's brought to your attention, your segment of the population gets very, very angry and starts deflecting toward poor people and immigrants.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The more power government has, the more power is available for sale.

Correct...and who is buying it....?

Hint: It isn't you or me.

Government allows large corporations to exist and operate outside the rules.

Because they are bought off.

But we think these same corrupt assholes can somehow run our health care system.

What a screwed up way of thinking.

 

[Arianrhod]

The more power government has, the more power is available for sale.

Correct...and who is buying it....?

Hint: It isn't you or me.

Government allows large corporations to exist and operate outside the rules.

Because they are bought off.

But we think these same corrupt assholes can somehow run our health care system.

What a screwed up way of thinking.

And yet you lot allow yourselves to be distracted by poor people and immigrants instead of laying the blame where it belongs. Why is that?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

REPORT: Obamacare Saves Federal Government $1 Trillion in Medicare Costs (CHARTS)

Yep. It's done its job.

It's funny because you believe it.

What's more funny is that BillyFail won't engage after he's dropped his little turd.

Almost as funny is those who still hang onto government like it really did give a rat's ass about them.

 

[Arianrhod]

And yet no one here can refute the data in the OP. Why is that?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

REPORT: Obamacare Saves Federal Government $1 Trillion in Medicare Costs (CHARTS)

Yep. It's done its job.

It's funny because you believe it.

Yes, he somehow thinks that saving money is good healthcare.

What a joke.

Paying less for seniors care....saving money....screwing seniors ?

The article doesn't say.

 

[hadit]

We were not talking about corporate behavior, in case you were confused.

No confusion. Amusement at how some people bad corporate behavior and hyperfocus on government as the source of all their suffering.

The difference, of course, is that corporations depend on VOLUNTARY customer action to survive and saving money has a real impact on continued survival, while government can simply mandate that citizens perform certain actions or suffer legal consequences, and saving money matters little. A corporation cannot run a massive deficit for decades and expect to survive. If it should declare certain spending to not count so as to make the numbers more appealing, it is punished by both the markets and the government. The US government, OTOH, has no problem doing exactly that and forcing multiple future generations to pay for the debt it incurs. If I have a financial shortfall, I can cut cable TV, hold off on replacing the car for another year, cut back on eating at restaurants, etc. Not so much with the government. The IRS doesn't care if you're having a tough time, it will take your income taxes out of your income and use your money for a year before you're allowed to get some of it back. Think it's a great thing to get a big refund? It's not, because you just gave the government an interest free loan. You could have invested that money yourself for the year and gotten some interest out of it. You get penalized if you want to cut health insurance for a few months because you're young and healthy and want the money to cover something else, and on it goes.

IOW, I can choose to not interact with a corporation. I can't choose to not interact with the government.

Corporations rely on consumer ignorance.

And? I can still choose to give them my money or not. I have to give my money to government.

Actually, in large part you're paying the government in taxes what corporations aren't. But because it's a hidden cost, you're unaware of it and, in my experience, when it's brought to your attention, your segment of the population gets very, very angry and starts deflecting toward poor people and immigrants.

What exactly is my "segment of the population", seeing as you apparently know me so well?

 

[Arianrhod]

What exactly is my "segment of the population", seeing as you apparently know me so well?

The segment that, at the very least, has no concept how much of the corporate tax they're paying and that blames poor people and immigrants for the amount of tax they're paying.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[hadit]

What exactly is my "segment of the population", seeing as you apparently know me so well?

The segment that, at the very least, has no concept how much of the corporate tax they're paying and that blames poor people and immigrants for the amount of tax they're paying.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong. I am very aware that I, as the consumer, pay not only my taxes, but the taxes for companies from which I purchase goods and services. I am very aware that companies have no money that does not ultimately come from the customer. Do you think otherwise? Tell you what, show me where I blame poor people and immigrants for the taxes I have to pay. Otherwise, you're just spewing hot air.

 

[Arianrhod]

What exactly is my "segment of the population", seeing as you apparently know me so well?

The segment that, at the very least, has no concept how much of the corporate tax they're paying and that blames poor people and immigrants for the amount of tax they're paying.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong. I am very aware that I, as the consumer, pay not only my taxes, but the taxes for companies from which I purchase goods and services. I am very aware that companies have no money that does not ultimately come from the customer. Do you think otherwise? Tell you what, show me where I blame poor people and immigrants for the taxes I have to pay. Otherwise, you're just spewing hot air.

Post #18.

 

[HenryBHough]

Pity some haven't figured out the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.

 

[hadit]

What exactly is my "segment of the population", seeing as you apparently know me so well?

The segment that, at the very least, has no concept how much of the corporate tax they're paying and that blames poor people and immigrants for the amount of tax they're paying.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong. I am very aware that I, as the consumer, pay not only my taxes, but the taxes for companies from which I purchase goods and services. I am very aware that companies have no money that does not ultimately come from the customer. Do you think otherwise? Tell you what, show me where I blame poor people and immigrants for the taxes I have to pay. Otherwise, you're just spewing hot air.

Post #18.

Did you bother to look at the graphic? It listed many things the government spends money on, not just assistance programs. Heck, it included corporate welfare and defense. If you don't think there is a LOT of waste and redundant spending that can be cut from the budget, I have a bridge I'll sell you, cheap. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I'm mad at the buggers in Washington who keep taking more taxes, borrowing even more from future generations and other countries, and spending it irresponsibly. So, unless you can find a way to twist that into saying I blame the poor and immigrants, you're still spewing hot air.