Catholics Don't Exemplify Christianity...

[Meriweather]

I used to be a part of a Catholic group who had a prayer meeting every week. That was very different and strange to me given that meeting we had the same type of service as would what I deemed "regular church". There was stuff that happened there that was not within the confines of mass. In fact we were not allowed to have it inside the church we had to have it in the parish house or sometimes in the basement. They called it Charismatic, I called it normal. They had speakers come, we sang, some played instruments, there were words of knowledge, speaking in tongues and interpretations, etc. but it wasn't allowed inside the church. I really enjoyed that group. They had laying on of hands and prayer, everything to me what I considered normal church had but in a very small setting of people. I interacted with these people a lot and I enjoyed it. They did their mass thing on Sunday and went through the ceremony but I didn't attend that. I could not understand why they still did that part when they had their spiritual outpouring in the other meeting. Finally I just stopped trying to figure it out and said ok whatever.

Charismatic movements have been alive and well in the Catholic Church for over fifty years. So the Catholic Church in your town held the meetings/services in meeting rooms. Others hold it inside the actual church. I am glad you called it normal...it is normal, although not all choose to worship in that manner. On the other side of the coin are those who choose attend worship services in Latin. Catholicism covers a wide spectrum. The entire spectrum is "normal." We're not cookie cutter stamps of each other, but unique individuals.

 

[TrinityPower]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

 

[Meriweather]

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

Because Catholic doctrine on marriage is different, priests do not "co-officiate" in the sense that both perform the marriage. Canon Law does permit for one official to marry and the other one to give a blessing, but not co-officiate. However, special dispensations to this can be received. A usual exception may be when the father of one those being married is also a minister. It could very well be you and your husband received a special dispensation. Or, the more usual practice could have occurred where one officially married, and the other performed a blessing.

 

[TrinityPower]

I used to be a part of a Catholic group who had a prayer meeting every week. That was very different and strange to me given that meeting we had the same type of service as would what I deemed "regular church". There was stuff that happened there that was not within the confines of mass. In fact we were not allowed to have it inside the church we had to have it in the parish house or sometimes in the basement. They called it Charismatic, I called it normal. They had speakers come, we sang, some played instruments, there were words of knowledge, speaking in tongues and interpretations, etc. but it wasn't allowed inside the church. I really enjoyed that group. They had laying on of hands and prayer, everything to me what I considered normal church had but in a very small setting of people. I interacted with these people a lot and I enjoyed it. They did their mass thing on Sunday and went through the ceremony but I didn't attend that. I could not understand why they still did that part when they had their spiritual outpouring in the other meeting. Finally I just stopped trying to figure it out and said ok whatever.

Charismatic movements have been alive and well in the Catholic Church for over fifty years. So the Catholic Church in your town held the meetings/services in meeting rooms. Others hold it inside the actual church. I am glad you called it normal...it is normal, although not all choose to worship in that manner. On the other side of the coin are those who choose attend worship services in Latin. Catholicism covers a wide spectrum. The entire spectrum is "normal." We're not cookie cutter stamps of each other, but unique individuals.

Well to me that stuff is normal for a regular church service. I did not attend church growing up on a regular basis and when I did it sure wasn't one with the ceremony of the more "conservative" branches. It is interesting that you say Catholics are not cookie cutter stamps when the mass itself is very concise and exact. There is little variation in the ceremony and the time of it is concise of 1 hour (as close as possible depending how many people can get thru the communion line in a hurry). No one is encouraged to be individual in a service. There is no room for the spirit to move nor is it ok for anyone to do anything outside the guidelines of the ceremony. Mass is mass. There is no room for change in it. The priest won't stop in the middle of mass and say I am feeling lead to pray in the spirit right now and start speaking in tongues. This "charismatic movement" was going on LONG before the Catholic church gave their blessing on it 50 years ago and it sure isn't done in Sunday service. It has to be a separate meeting altogether. I cannot imagine that raising of hands, dancing, clapping, and speaking in tongues would be tolerated during a mass...sorry. Try selling that to someone else.

My definition of cookie cutter and yours are not alike. And by the same token most Catholics would not feel comfortable participating in an Assembly of God service. My ex used to look like he was going to get struck by lightning or throw up at any moment. I could tell he was nervous and scared even at the prayer meetings. I had hoped he would get over it but he didn't and I didn't get over feeling like I was smothered by the ceremony of it all. It is what someone is comfortable with expressing or taking in.

 

[TrinityPower]

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

Because Catholic doctrine on marriage is different, priests do not "co-officiate" in the sense that both perform the marriage. Canon Law does permit for one official to marry and the other one to give a blessing, but not co-officiate. However, special dispensations to this can be received. A usual exception may be when the father of one those being married is also a minister. It could very well be you and your husband received a special dispensation. Or, the more usual practice could have occurred where one officially married, and the other performed a blessing.

I do not know what hoops he had to jump through, the only person it was important to was the mother in-law. Weird too because she never stuck her nose into any of the other boys wedding plan. She did tell one sister in law that she was going to hell for converting her son to 7th Day Adventist. Didn't hold the son accountable at all because he was being influenced apparently (according to her). He would never have the brain to do so on his own according to his mother, which says a lot about her.

 

[TrinityPower]

All I know is what the priest told me. He mentioned having to get some special written permission from the grand pooba over the region and the priest presiding over that geographical area and that he was required to participate not just ride the bench because of the mother in-law being in his congregation. What their rules are I didn't know, nor do I know now. I could have cared less if he showed or didn't and I told him that. I told him it was his choice which was more than he offered in trying to coerce a signature from my fiance. I do not know how he got around that but from what you are saying he was out of bounds with that one. This happened about 3 days short of 18 years ago. My memory isn't foggy about it even though I am unclear of what their rules are. I am not Catholic so it wasn't my problem. I divorced anyway. Abuse wasn't in the marriage contract I signed

 

[Meriweather]

Well to me that stuff is normal for a regular church service. I did not attend church growing up on a regular basis and when I did it sure wasn't one with the ceremony of the more "conservative" branches. It is interesting that you say Catholics are not cookie cutter stamps when the mass itself is very concise and exact. There is little variation in the ceremony and the time of it is concise of 1 hour (as close as possible depending how many people can get thru the communion line in a hurry). No one is encouraged to be individual in a service. There is no room for the spirit to move nor is it ok for anyone to do anything outside the guidelines of the ceremony. Mass is mass. There is no room for change in it. The priest won't stop in the middle of mass and say I am feeling lead to pray in the spirit right now and start speaking in tongues. This "charismatic movement" was going on LONG before the Catholic church gave their blessing on it 50 years ago and it sure isn't done in Sunday service. It has to be a separate meeting altogether. I cannot imagine that raising of hands, dancing, clapping, and speaking in tongues would be tolerated during a mass...sorry. Try selling that to someone else.

My definition of cookie cutter and yours are not alike. And by the same token most Catholics would not feel comfortable participating in an Assembly of God service. My ex used to look like he was going to get struck by lightning or throw up at any moment. I could tell he was nervous and scared even at the prayer meetings. I had hoped he would get over it but he didn't and I didn't get over feeling like I was smothered by the ceremony of it all. It is what someone is comfortable with expressing or taking in.

The Mass is not about individuals and their individual experiences. While a Mass can be charismatic, it does follow a set pattern. So when I had my high school students acting out the Gospel in front of the altar (using props) it still followed this same pattern. Dancers don't change the pattern of the Mass, either, but they can be (often are in some parishes) a part of it.

What the Mass is about is Christ and what he did for us. It is a memorial to Christ, not to us; we listen to his word, receive his graces and mostly, we are sent out to the world with what we have received. (We do not remain in Church clapping and dancing and yelling out.)

So, no, a Catholic Mass is not about calling attention to self, but remaining focused on what Christ accomplished and on the Word, speaking to us. When Jesus was speaking do you think there was a lot of people yelling out, waving their hands, and jumping up and down...or do you think more were listening?

No room in the Mass for the Spirit to move? I beg to differ. Instead of exploding outward into nothing but space, there is an infusion inward that we take with us when we go. We go forth to live what we have heard and received. We do not go to Church to be entertained or to make it as much about self as possible. We make it all about God: Thanksgiving, Adoration, Contrition, and Petition.

It is true, the Mass I most enjoy are the ones that are quieter and more reflective. Because of my work with teens, I understand very well the desire to be involved with not only mind, heart, and soul--but with body, as well.

I am very happy you have worship services that work for you. I hope you can also feel that happiness for others who rejoice differently in a different type of service than the one where you rejoice.

 

[Meriweather]

I do not know what hoops he had to jump through, the only person it was important to was the mother in-law. Weird too because she never stuck her nose into any of the other boys wedding plan. She did tell one sister in law that she was going to hell for converting her son to 7th Day Adventist. Didn't hold the son accountable at all because he was being influenced apparently (according to her). He would never have the brain to do so on his own according to his mother, which says a lot about her.

Perhaps one day in another thread, we can discuss the whims of mothers-in-law! Maybe it wasn't so weird, when it appears your mother-in-law's son was so willing to follow procedure. Perhaps his mother had memories of how much the Catholic faith once meant to this particular son, and she had some intuition that one day abiding by these procedures would mean a lot to her son. Or, she could have just been an interfering mother-in-law. You're probably in the best position to judge that.

 

[Ravi]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

It isn't allowed.

 

[aris2chat]

Why do they have Jesus above god? Why does god have three parts instead of just 'god'? Why do they partake of cannibalism in communion, even symbolically, as such a thing was pagan?

Why don't they just pray to god instead if using mary, jesus and saints as intermediaries? God can't hear the prayers without them? Does he not know all, even our thoughts without prayer? Is not every preordained by god? Would the granting of prayers not be throwing a monkey wrench into his plans? Should we really be able to change fate with prayers to statues and symbols?

Ah, the confusion factors! Throw in confusing statements that have no relation to Christianity, which results in people having to clear away the confusing straw men before discussing rock solid truths.

I'm just going to address the truth.

1. Jesus is not above God or below God. Jesus is one with God.

2. God nourishes His people through the sacraments of bread and wine, and this is best compared to a mother's body and blood nourishing her infant through breast milk. Just as we do not regard a nursing child as a cannibal, for the mother still lives, nor do we regard God's children as cannibals as He still lives.

3. We all pray to God with one another not through or to one another. With, such a little word, and easy to remember, and one that makes all the difference to the reality of prayer.

4. Prayers are to God, not to statues and symbols.



Now, with all the straw blown away, the rock truth may be easier to discern.

why pray to jesus if he is god. Why not just pray to god? Why does jesus come into this at all?

Why do people have to pray to god the father , son and holy ghost rather than just god?

sounds like god is schizophrenic


Once out of the womb, the infant only nurses on milk till it is ready for other food.

Milk is not blood or flesh.....or all mammals would be cannibals and impure to eat.


why have symbols and statues at all in a church, on charms, art, or in the homes?

why to churches need bones and relics?

If you don't believe don't pray at all-- you won't be heard anyway, unless your are praying for salvation....

and if everything is preordained, it won't matter if I pray or not, the outcome will be the same.

 

[TrinityPower]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

It isn't allowed.

You really need to refrain from calling me a liar

 

[Ravi]

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

Because Catholic doctrine on marriage is different, priests do not "co-officiate" in the sense that both perform the marriage. Canon Law does permit for one official to marry and the other one to give a blessing, but not co-officiate. However, special dispensations to this can be received. A usual exception may be when the father of one those being married is also a minister. It could very well be you and your husband received a special dispensation. Or, the more usual practice could have occurred where one officially married, and the other performed a blessing.

I do not know what hoops he had to jump through, the only person it was important to was the mother in-law. Weird too because she never stuck her nose into any of the other boys wedding plan. She did tell one sister in law that she was going to hell for converting her son to 7th Day Adventist. Didn't hold the son accountable at all because he was being influenced apparently (according to her). He would never have the brain to do so on his own according to his mother, which says a lot about her.

If you demonize Catholics and she demonized Mormons how are you really different from each other?

 

[TrinityPower]

What are you talking about? Who ever brought up Mormons? 7th Day Adventists are not Mormons

 

[Meriweather]

If you demonize Catholics and she demonized Mormons how are you really different from each other?

How and when did I demonize Mormons?

 

[Ravi]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

It isn't allowed.

You really need to refrain from calling me a liar

You can take it that way if you wish. What you've described isn't allowed.

 

[Ravi]

What are you talking about? Who ever brought up Mormons? 7th Day Adventists are not Mormons

Right. My bad. Sub Seventh days for Mormons.

 

[Ravi]

If you demonize Catholics and she demonized Mormons how are you really different from each other?

How and when did I demonize Mormons?

I didn't say you did. I was talking to TP.

 

[TrinityPower]

Oh it DID happen but you can believe what you want. He looked meek but man he was pushy. My ex's family was probably the biggest in the parish with 16 kids and he felt this obligation to the mother since she attended mass every day. He even went so far as to tell me he had to be there as a promise to my ex's mother. I told him that wasn't my problem and she wasn't dictating anything through him to me. This parish is in a small town but we didn't marry there. We married in a different city and a different denomination. He did show up and co-officiated but at that point it wasn't a concern to me, it never was. It was upon his mother's insistence that he be included at all to begin with and I went to all the counseling etc out of respect for her wishes, beyond that was not my problem. The thing that got me is that she never insisted on any of this for any of her other children who did not marry Catholic spouses (which was all 8 boys)

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

It isn't allowed.

You really need to refrain from calling me a liar

You can take it that way if you wish. What you've described isn't allowed.

Yeah it IS allowed. There are special dispensations granted for such things. As I happened to be there and have signed documents to verify it I am not going to argue with you any longer. You are not the grand pooba nor do you make or break the rule. Just because it isn't ordinary procedure doesn't mean it didn't happen. You need to read your own link.

 

[Meriweather]

If you demonize Catholics and she demonized Mormons how are you really different from each other?

How and when did I demonize Mormons?

I didn't say you did. I was talking to TP.

Okay, thank you. Your post just appeared at the end of a conversation she and I were having, and thus my confusion.

 

[Ravi]

A priest wouldn't be allowed to do such a thing. Your memory must be foggy (co-officiate).

Can We Have Both a Priest and a Non-Catholic Minister at our Wedding - Canon Law Made EasyCanon Law Made Easy

So you are trying to tell me I didn't have two officiants? I do not have a foggy memory and I have pictures of both officiants together plus video so what exactly are you saying? The wedding wasn't at the Catholic church, they would not do that nor did I ask them to. The priest had to get special permission from the parish priest of that area plus someone else I believe to be allowed under their rules to participate.

It isn't allowed.

You really need to refrain from calling me a liar

You can take it that way if you wish. What you've described isn't allowed.

Yeah it IS allowed. There are special dispensations granted for such things. As I happened to be there and have signed documents to verify it I am not going to argue with you any longer. You are not the grand pooba nor do you make or break the rule. Just because it isn't ordinary procedure doesn't mean it didn't happen. You need to read your own link.

Pretend all you want. It isn't allowed.