Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[Indeependent]

How Many People Did Communism Kill?
How Many People Did Communism Kill? « Lawrence Person's BattleSwarm Blog

Under Communism you will be told where to live, the amount of education you will be given, the job you will be assigned to and what you income will be. There will be no real Unions. Your entire life will be controlled by the Communist leaders. Suspicion of being disloyal is enough to be executed.

You would have to be a complete idiot living in a delusional world to prefer living under a Communist Government. Talk to the people who lived under Communism and are now free.

That's Totalitarianism or Authoritarianism.
It seems to work well enough for us in China where we sent our production infrastructure.

Could you please quote the source of your definition of Communism?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The communists here are as lame brain as the libertarians: opposite sides of the same coin.

 

[Vox]

In conclusion i would like to share my opinion. I belive the risk involved with capitalism is worth the big dreams and potential unlocked that comes with it. People have bigger things to live for and more fuel to live on. Because "the dream" actually exist. In addition to the fact that the world/nation could innovate so much faster.
I would like for you to build an opinion of your own and for you to give me your feedback and for you to discuss amongst youselves.

If you are so fond of communism - submit you American passport and citizenship and apply for political asylum in the North Korea.

Or at least Cuba.
Although neither is a communism, just pure socialism, or the first stage of communism.

Who told you the first stage of communism is socialism, and did you believe the teller?

the ones who coined the term originally

dude, learn from the basics, not vanilla articles on the web

 

[Vox]

Can anyone name the nations that presently practice Marxian communism or have practiced it in the past?

North Korea, Cuba, USSR, all the Eastern Bloc countries, Vietnam, China, the whole bunch in Africa ( Angola comes to mind as the first)

I would suggest that you acquaint yourself with Marx and communism by doing some scholarship. None of those countries ever practiced Marx. The closest success with Marx, might have been done here in the US, New Harmony Indiana, with Owens but it had to be backed by Owen's money. It is also possible that some religious sect had some success with communism, but no nation.

dude, apply the advice to yourself, so you don't look so idiotic. communism never existed, just it's first stage - pure socialism.

I have studied Marx, and Engels and Lenin and some others for at least 6 years in the university and at least for the last 2 years of high school. And had to take numerous exams on the disciplines of marxism-leninism, dialectic materialism, historic materialism and all other commie shit.

Now go and at least read chapter II of the Manifesto. Yourself.

 

[Vox]

No nation has ever practiced Communism and any witless attempt to dismiss such a fact is exactly that.
Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism are NOT Communism.

yes, they are. otherwise it can not be imposed.

 

[daveman]

No nation has ever practiced Communism and any witless attempt to dismiss such a fact is exactly that.
Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism are NOT Communism.

yes, they are. otherwise it can not be imposed.

And it HAS to be imposed. It can only exist voluntarily in small communities.

 

[Indeependent]

No nation has ever practiced Communism and any witless attempt to dismiss such a fact is exactly that.
Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism are NOT Communism.

yes, they are. otherwise it can not be imposed.

Only if the society is classless.
No nation labeled as Communist has ever started off with such intention.
Just because an ego-maniacal madmen makes the claim to achieve power doesn't mean that's the bastards actual intention.

 

[Unkotare]

No nation has ever practiced Communism and any witless attempt to dismiss such a fact is exactly that.
Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism are NOT Communism.

Ignorant fool.

 

[Mojo2]

Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

Communism Killed 94M in 20th Century, Feels Need to Kill Again

John J. Walters|Mar. 13, 2013 6:22 pm

A part of the infographic showing communism's 94M deathsInformation is BeautifulAccording to a disturbingly pleasant graphic from Information is Beautiful entitled simply 20th Century Death, communism was the leading ideological cause of death between 1900 and 2000. The 94 million that perished in China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Afghanistan, and Eastern Europe easily (and tragically) trump the 28 million that died under fascist regimes during the same period.

During the century measured, more people died as a result of communism than from homicide (58 million) and genocide (30 million) put together. The combined death tolls of WWI (37 million) and WWII (66 million) exceed communism’s total by only 9 million.

It gets worse when you look at the lower right of the chart—The Natural World—which includes animals (7 million), natural disasters (24 million), and famine (101 million). Curiously, all of the world’s worst famines during the 20th century were in communist countries: China (twice!), the Soviet Union, and North Korea.

Communism is a killer. And yet some still say they support the idea: According to a 2011 Rasmussen poll, 11% of Americans think that communism would better serve this country’s needs than our current system.

John J. Walters was a 2013 Burton C. Gray Memorial Intern at Reason.

Communism Killed 94M in 20th Century, Feels Need to Kill Again - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[Mojo2]

Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society gave this speech in 1958, although it sounds like it could be given today.
***********************************
“I can prophecy that your grandchildren in America will live under socialism…Our firm conviction is that sooner or later Capitalism will give way to Socialism. Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.” - Nikita Krushchev, July 1957

“The United States will eventually fly the Communist red flag…The American people will hoist it themselves.” - Nikita Krushchev, July 19, 1962

Was Krushchev right?

INFILTRATED NATION: So You STILL Think America Hasn't Been Infiltrated? Not After This

 

[Edgetho]

No nation has ever practiced Communism and any witless attempt to dismiss such a fact is exactly that.
Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism are NOT Communism.

Ignorant fool.

I think "Stupid Motherfucker" might be more appropriate

The only economic system that can support a Free People is Free Market Capitalism.

socialism and 'communism' (which there has never been) can not support Freedom because of the number of laws, the number of edicts and the vast amount of regulation required.

If I don't like paying 50% of my wages in taxes and refuse, I go to Jail.

THAT, my ignorant, stupid, moronic libturds is the USE OF FORCE.

Everything about socialism and communism screams authoritarianism. Everything.

Anybody who thinks otherwise is..... Well, a stupid motherfucker.

And SERIOUSLY needs to read some history when he grows up enough to understand it.

Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, North Korea, Bulgaria, Vietnam, Ethiopia, Tibet...... etc.

ALL of them 'socialist/communist'

All of them. Now name me some E-VUL Capitalists. You can't. All THEY do is provide you with the means, the free time, the platform and the wealth to bitch like little children

There is only one kind of person on this Earth that deserves execution without hesitation, a trial or remorse.....

A 'communist'.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Can anyone name the nations that presently practice Marxian communism or have practiced it in the past? Can anyone name the nations that presently practice pure capitalism?

The Soviet Union briefly practiced fundamentalist Marxism, in St. Petersburg 1921-22. This included abolishing all currency and setting up Uparvdoms to distribute goods and assign work. It was this failure that led to the establishment of the NEP.

Pure Capitalism can be observed on any weekend at thousands of garage sales and flea markets across the nation.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

Yes it is......
Communism is an epic failure. Every where it has been tried if has failed.
The say that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results,
Seems that could be of Communism too or at least the people pushing for it here. One last this to
consider is the old adage "The Only Good Commie is one that is Dead."

But.... Obama will get it right...

 

[Uncensored2008]

If the state OWNS the means of production then you have communism.

If they REGULATE the means of production you have fascism.


.

Technically, Communism is the condition that exists once the state "fades away" and the means of production are communally owned.

Of course the American left seeks only the dictatorship of the proletariat, or phase one of the plan.

 

[Contumacious]

If the state OWNS the means of production then you have communism.

If they REGULATE the means of production you have fascism.


.

Technically, Communism is the condition that exists once the state "fades away" and the means of production are communally owned.

Of course the American left seeks only the dictatorship of the proletariat, or phase one of the plan.

In that case the "community" is the state.

.

 

[Uncensored2008]

In that case the "community" is the state.

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No, in Marxism there is no state. The fantasy is that everyone will just share without concern.

 

[Contumacious]

In that case the "community" is the state.

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No, in Marxism there is no state. The fantasy is that everyone will just share without concern.

That is bullshit.

During the transition period from a free economy to a communist one there is definitely a state.

Now, if you read the Communist Manifesto, he is not actually criticizing Capitalism , he is criticizing fascism.

II. The State as an Instrument of the Ruling Class

The idea that the state is an instrument of a ruling class to maintain its control over the exploited classes is similarly problematical. Taken in its most basic sense, anarchists can well agree with it, but as a serious analysis of the state, it is si gnificantly flawed,

Under Capitalism, the state is neutral and not used as a tool of oppression.

.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That is bullshit.

Of course it is, but it is what Marx and Engels proposed.

During the transition period from a free economy to a communist one there is definitely a state.

Absolutely, not just a state, a dictatorship. And this is what the left actually yearns for, eternal dictatorship.

Now, if you read the Communist Manifesto, he is not actually criticizing Capitalism , he is criticizing fascism.

Marx knew nothing of fascism, which was developed after his death by one of his own adherents, Benito Mussolini.

II. The State as an Instrument of the Ruling Class

The idea that the state is an instrument of a ruling class to maintain its control over the exploited classes is similarly problematical. Taken in its most basic sense, anarchists can well agree with it, but as a serious analysis of the state, it is si gnificantly flawed,

You are confusing Fascism and the Aristocracy. Marx was a product of his environment, 19th century Germany. The remnants of European Aristocracy were still strong.

Under Capitalism, the state is neutral and not used as a tool of oppression.

.

True.

 

[Contumacious]

Marx knew nothing of fascism, which was developed after his death by one of his own adherents, Benito Mussolini..

Incorrect.

Mussolini may have been the first to use the word "fascism" to describe a system where the states regulates the economy.

But regardless of what it was called before it was still fascism.

The problems with the idea that the state is an instrument of the ruling class are particularly apparent in Engels' discussion of the democratic republic. Here, he was at pains to demonstrate how the capitalists control the state when the workers can v ote, speak out, and organize. As we've seen, he argued that the capitalists control the state indirectly, through the corruption of political officials and by the alliance of the government with the stock exchange (whatever that means.)

.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Marx knew nothing of fascism, which was developed after his death by one of his own adherents, Benito Mussolini..

Incorrect.

Mussolini may have been the first to use the word "fascism" to describe a system where the states regulates the economy.

But regardless of what it was called before it was still fascism.

Incorrect.

The Feudal system absolutely had the state control the economy, but it was not fascism. Nor was the bastardized system that Marx witnessed in Munich. Marx was not dealing with Capitalism in the sweatshops, nor was he dealing with fascism. He was witnessing a transitory state from the Feudal past that was moving to an industrialized future.

While the power of the state was employed to protect the interests of well connected aristocrats, there was no central authority nor central planning. Remember, fascism is a command economy, directed from the top.

The problems with the idea that the state is an instrument of the ruling class are particularly apparent in Engels' discussion of the democratic republic. Here, he was at pains to demonstrate how the capitalists control the state when the workers can v ote, speak out, and organize. As we've seen, he argued that the capitalists control the state indirectly, through the corruption of political officials and by the alliance of the government with the stock exchange (whatever that means.)

.

Much of what Marx and Engels observed was correct. What they failed to do, was identify causation.