Capital Punishment, in principle

[Lycurgus]

As long as I live there is hope that I may escape, or be released in some way but my victim is dead, I win.

Simple, correct, the brutal truth.

Well put, thank you!

 

[editec]

The crime must be egregious and the case must be ironclad, drop dead certain before I'd support someone's execution.

I suspect we're probably got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many innocent people on death row, already.

We now KNOW, thanks to DNA evidence, that so called eyewitness testimony is often completely wrong.

 

[pete]

I can speak for myself and can tell you if it were a family member of mine ... they wouldnt make it to court to waste your money!
It should be quicker ...

 

[editec]

I can speak for myself and can tell you if it were a family member of mine ... they wouldnt make it to court to waste your money!
It should be quicker ...

That's a common enough sentiment regardless of how one feels about givng the STATE the right to execute people.

But it doesn't answer the question about how you feel about the giving the STATE that right, does it?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm against the death penalty in all cases. There's never a condition where it's right to take another person's life, regardless of what they've done. Too many innocent people are put to death. And it's not even an effective deterrent.

So numbnuts what do you do with someone that KNOWS they can never be put to death and so continues killing in PRISON? How about serial killers that have no social conscious and no real human connection?

Dumb as fuck.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Provide evidence of all the supposed people put to death that were innocent.

 

[HUGGY]

You are a FUCKING moron. But then we already KNEW that didn't we?

Thanks for your input.

He's right, you whiney little bitch. You have got to be the stupidest fuck on this entire board.

What do you call "little"? Why would that matter? Don't you have to be a jew to really qualify as useless whiney bitch? You people are pros at being the victim. I can see how giving up your life for any cause would be disturbing for you ...8 million can't/couldn't have been wrong. It will always come down to that won't it.

 

[Barb]

I'm against the death penalty in all cases. There's never a condition where it's right to take another person's life, regardless of what they've done. Too many innocent people are put to death. And it's not even an effective deterrent.

So numbnuts what do you do with someone that KNOWS they can never be put to death and so continues killing in PRISON? How about serial killers that have no social conscious and no real human connection?

Dumb as fuck.

We have super maximum security prisons for hard cases, and solitary confinement. Serial killers have no fear of death; half their hard-on is thinking they're smarter than everyone else. Furthermore, we put plenty of innocent people to death (not that ONE isn't too many) even when exculpatory evidence surfaces proving their innocence. The only time we've let the innocent go is when DNA evidence too positive to ignore is allowed before a judge.

That said, I don't believe children are nearly as well represented under current laws as they should be. As a parent, I would not rely on the law to protect mine. Sure I'm wrong, but I would not apologize for the results if someone harmed one of mine.

 

[editec]

Provide evidence of all the supposed people put to death that were innocent.

Cannot do that as once somebody is dead no further invesigation of their guilt or innocence is possible.

But I can give you a list of those who would have been executed if DNA evidence hadn't overturned their convictions


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2338#1

David KeatonFLB197119732Charges Dismissed 2Samuel A. PooleNCB197319741Charges Dismissed 3Wilbert LeeFLB1963197512Pardoned 4Freddie PittsFLB1963197512Pardoned 5James CreamerGAW197319752Charges Dismissed 6Christopher SpicerNCB197319752Acquitted 7Thomas GladishNMW197419762Charges Dismissed 8Richard GreerNMW197419762Charges Dismissed 9Ronald KeineNMW197419762Charges Dismissed 10Clarence SmithNMW197419762Charges Dismissed 11Delbert TibbsFLB197419773Charges Dismissed 12Earl CharlesGAB197519783Charges Dismissed 13Jonathan TreadwayAZW197519783Acquitted 14Gary BeemanOHW197619793Acquitted 15Jerry BanksGAB197519805Charges Dismissed 16Larry HicksINB197819802Acquitted 17Charles Ray GiddensOKB197819813Charges Dismissed 18Michael LinderSCW197919812Acquitted 19Johnny RossLAB197519816Charges Dismissed 20Ernest (Shujaa) GrahamCAB197619815Acquitted 21Annibal JaramilloFLL198119821Charges Dismissed 22Lawyer JohnsonMAB1971198211Charges Dismissed 23Larry FisherMSW198419851Acquitted 24Anthony BrownFLB198319863Acquitted 25Neil FerberPAW198219864Charges Dismissed 26Clifford Henry BowenOKW198119865Charges Dismissed 27Joseph Green BrownFLB1974198713Charges Dismissed 28Perry CobbILB197919878Acquitted 29Darby (Williams) TillisILB197919878Acquitted 30Vernon McManusTXW1977198710Charges Dismissed 31Anthony Ray PeekFLB197819879Acquitted 32Juan RamosFLL198319874Acquitted 33Robert WallaceGAB198019877Acquitted 34Richard Neal JonesOKW198319874Acquitted 35Willie BrownFLB198319885Charges Dismissed 36Larry TroyFLB198319885Charges Dismissed 37Randall Dale AdamsTXW1977198912Charges Dismissed 38Robert CoxFLW198819891Charges Dismissed 39Timothy HennisNCW198619893Acquitted 40James RichardsonFLB1968198921Acquitted 41Clarence BrandleyTXB198119909Charges Dismissed 42John C. SkeltonTXW198319907Acquitted 43Dale JohnstonOHW198419906Charges Dismissed 44Jimmy Lee MathersAZW198719903Acquitted 45Gary NelsonGAB1980199111Charges Dismissed 46Bradley P. ScottFLW198819913Acquitted 47Charles SmithINB198319918Acquitted 48Jay C. SmithPAW198619926Acquitted 49Kirk BloodsworthMDW198419939Charges DismissedYes50Federico M. MaciasTXL198419939Charges Dismissed 51Walter McMillianALB198819935Charges Dismissed 52Gregory R. WilhoitOKW198719936Acquitted 53James RobisonAZW1977199316Acquitted 54Muneer DeebTXO198519938Acquitted 55Andrew GoldenFLW199119943Charges Dismissed 56Adolph MunsonOKB1985199510Acquitted 57Robert Charles CruzAZL1981199514Acquitted 58Rolando CruzILL1985199510AcquittedYes59Alejandro HernandezILL1985199510Charges DismissedYes60Sabrina ButlerMSB199019955Acquitted 61Joseph BurrowsILW198919967Charges Dismissed 62Verneal JimersonILB1985199611Charges DismissedYes63Dennis WilliamsILB1979199617Charges DismissedYes64Roberto MirandaNVL1982199614Charges Dismissed 65Gary GaugerILW199319963Charges Dismissed 66Troy Lee JonesCAB1982199614Charges Dismissed 67Carl LawsonILB199019966Acquitted 68David Wayne GrannisAZW199119965Charges Dismissed 69Ricardo Aldape GuerraTXL1982199715Charges Dismissed 70Benjamin HarrisWAB1985199712Charges Dismissed 71Robert HayesFLB199119976Acquitted 72Christopher McCrimmonAZB199319974Acquitted 73Randall PadgettALW199219975Acquitted 74James Bo CochranALB1976199721Acquitted 75Robert Lee Miller, Jr.OKB1988199810Charges DismissedYes76Curtis KylesLAB1984199814Charges Dismissed 77Shareef CousinLAB199619993Charges Dismissed 78Anthony PorterILB1983199916Charges Dismissed 79Steven SmithILB1985199914Acquitted 80Ronald WilliamsonOKW1988199911Charges DismissedYes81Ronald JonesILB1989199910Charges DismissedYes82Clarence Dexter, Jr.MOW199119998Charges Dismissed 83Warren Douglas ManningSCB1989199910Acquitted 84Alfred RiveraNCL199719992Charges Dismissed 85Steve ManningILW199320007Charges Dismissed 86Eric ClemmonsMOB1987200013Acquitted 87Joseph Nahume GreenFLB199320007Charges Dismissed 88Earl WashingtonVAB1984200016PardonedYes89William NievesPAL199420006Acquitted 90
Frank Lee Smith - died prior to exonerationFLB19862000 **14Charges DismissedYes91
Michael GrahamLAW1987200013Charges Dismissed 92Albert BurrellLAW1987200013Charges Dismissed 93Oscar Lee MorrisCAB1983200017Charges Dismissed 94Peter LimoneMAW1968200133Charges Dismissed 95Gary DrinkardALW199520016Charges Dismissed 96Joaquin Jose MartinezFLL199720014Acquitted 97Jeremy SheetsNEW199720014Charges Dismissed 98Charles FainIDW1983200118Charges DismissedYes99Juan Roberto MelendezFLL1984200218Charges Dismissed 100Ray KroneAZW1992200210Charges DismissedYes101Thomas Kimbell, Jr.PAW199820024Acquitted 102Larry OsborneKYW199920023Charges Dismissed 103Aaron PattersonILB1986200317Pardoned 104Madison HobleyILB1987200316Pardoned 105Leroy OrangeILB1984200319Pardoned 106Stanley HowardILB1987200316Pardoned 107Rudolph HoltonFLB1986200316Charges Dismissed 108Lemuel PrionAZW199920034Charges Dismissed 109Wesley QuickALW199720036Acquitted 110John ThompsonLAB1985200318Acquitted 111Timothy HowardOHB1976200326Charges Dismissed 112Gary Lamar JamesOHB1976200326Charges Dismissed 113Joseph AmrineMOB1986200317Charges Dismissed 114Nicholas YarrisPAW1982200321Charges DismissedYes115Alan GellNCW199820046Acquitted 116Gordon SteidlILW1987200417Charges Dismissed 117Laurence AdamsMAB1974200430Charges Dismissed 118Dan L. BrightLAB199620048Charges Dismissed 119Ryan MatthewsLAB199920045Charges DismissedYes120Ernest Ray WillisTXW1987200417Charges Dismissed 121Derrick JamisonOHB1985200520Charges Dismissed 122Harold WilsonPAB1989200516Acquitted 123John BallardFLW200320063Acquitted 124Curtis McCartyOKW1986200721Charges DismissedYes125Michael McCormickTNW1987200720Acquitted 126Jonathon HoffmanNCB1995200712Charges Dismissed 127Kennedy Brewerhttp://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2338#1MSB1995200813Charges DismissedYes128Glen ChapmanNCB1994200814Charges Dismissed 129Levon JonesNCB1993200815Charges Dismissed 130Michael Blairhttp://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2338#1TXO1994200814Charges DismissedYes131Nathson FieldsILB1986200923Acquitted 132Paul HouseTNW1986200923Charges Dismissed 133Daniel Wade MooreALW200220097Acquitted
So here we have 133 cases of people who'd been convicted who, it turns out, were found not guilty of the crime for which they'd have been executed.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2338#1http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=2338#1

 

[Barb]

There's never a condition where it's right to take another person's life

Oh?

You would not take a man's life in self-defense, or to protect your woman, child, or liberties? You would not slay a tyrant to set yourself, your family, your nation free? You would not end the life of a man, if it would prevent six million deaths? If your claims are truly heartfelt, and indicative of your nature... then I can declare you to be worse than a ******- for even a ****** can praise a hero. Your words are spoken out of a clear shortsightedness, and your foolishness is worse than malice, for while malice can be manipulated, and evil men made to act for the greater good, even the evilest of men do not do so much harm or bring so much grief to humanity as those who would do nothing to stop them.

I don't believe it's ever right to kill somebody, whatever they may have done. However, I realize I am far from perfect, and would likely do what I needed to do in any of your hypothetical situations. However, none of those situations has anything to do with capital punishment, which I remain against for any reason.

You're a purist, I respect that. I don't really trust the state to the right thing, or for it to do so for the correct reasons. I'm a mother. I just can't say I wouldn't be one bloodthirsty, violent, and remorseless bitch should anything happen to one of my children.

 

[Barb]

Capital punishment for the win!

• No chance of reoffending (most criminals do after being released from prison)
• Less money spent keeping the criminal alive in prison on taxpayer's money
• If utilized properly and more often, would drastically reduce the number of inmates in US prisons

Some crimes that I do believe should automatically warrant the death penalty:

• Drunk driving that leads to a fatal wreck
• Child molestation/rape, or possession of child pornography, pedophilia
• First degree murder of any kind

I've always wanted to know why the deaths of those caused by drunks aren't considered vehicular manslaughter. Apparently, that only qualifies if you speed up and purposely run someone over with your vehicle.

It costs more to put a person to death in the US than to incarcerate them for life.

 

[JBeukema]

Thanks for your input.

He's right, you whiney little bitch. You have got to be the stupidest fuck on this entire board.

What do you call "little"? Why would that matter? Don't you have to be a jew to really qualify as useless whiney bitch? You people are pros at being the victim. I can see how giving up your life for any cause would be disturbing for you ...8 million can't/couldn't have been wrong. It will always come down to that won't it.

Get the fuck out of my thread, you stupid troll.

It costs more to put a person to death in the US than to incarcerate them for life.

Only because they're retarded about it. A simple setup using a oxygen mask- type setup, using a canister of nitrogen would work perfectly fine. There's no pain, so those who object on the grounds of 'inhumanity' are satisfied, it's effective and fool-proof, so ya can't get it wrong, and it requires no anesthesiologist or specialized medical equipment.

Your point is mute, and is a standard strawman against capital punishment. Remember that this discussion is about CP in principle, not about the current way things are done

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[Luissa]

So you are for the killing of another person for the reason of justice Jebuka because you can rationalize it but since you cannot rationalize abortion, it is murdering an unborn child as you say. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. Even if a person killed twenty people they are still a human and you are saying it is alright in this case for another human to take their life, one could even say it is a 'later term' abortion.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm against the death penalty in all cases. There's never a condition where it's right to take another person's life, regardless of what they've done. Too many innocent people are put to death. And it's not even an effective deterrent.

So numbnuts what do you do with someone that KNOWS they can never be put to death and so continues killing in PRISON? How about serial killers that have no social conscious and no real human connection?

Dumb as fuck.

I think you need to lighten up about this board, you shouldn't take offense at every post that isn't agreeing with you. It can't be healthy.

 

[JBeukema]

So you are for the killing of another person for the reason of justice Jebuka because you can rationalize it but since you cannot rationalize abortion, it is murdering an unborn child as you say. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

If you can't tell the difference between an unborn or a newborn child and Ricardo Ramirez and Charles Manson, you have successfully proven that you are a totally ammoral person and a complete idiot.

Even if a person killed twenty people they are still a human and you are saying it is alright in this case for another human to take their life, one could even say it is a 'later term' abortion.

Robert Pickton surrendered any protections of his life by society when he murdered each of those ~60 women.

Explain how it is moral to punish every single member of society for Ted Bundy's crimes for stealing from them what they rightfully earn through their own labors to provide for someone who is a murderer and cannot be released into the public ever again.


Yea, you're an idiot. Shutup and stop proving it so oft.

 

[HUGGY]

He's right, you whiney little bitch. You have got to be the stupidest fuck on this entire board.

What do you call "little"? Why would that matter? Don't you have to be a jew to really qualify as useless whiney bitch? You people are pros at being the victim. I can see how giving up your life for any cause would be disturbing for you ...8 million can't/couldn't have been wrong. It will always come down to that won't it.

Get the fuck out of my thread, you stupid troll.

It costs more to put a person to death in the US than to incarcerate them for life.

Only because they're retarded about it. A simple setup using a oxygen mask- type setup, using a canister of nitrogen would work perfectly fine. There's no pain, so those who object on the grounds of 'inhumanity' are satisfied, it's effective and fool-proof, so ya can't get it wrong, and it requires no anesthesiologist or specialized medical equipment.

Your point is mute, and is a standard strawman against capital punishment. Remember that this discussion is about CP in principle, not about the current way things are done

[youtube]Do9VLZCHlN0[/youtube]

[youtube]x7qK89oHnGI[/youtube]

[youtube]QPz_Qbjf330[/youtube]

[youtube]3vnBsDtoyKc[/youtube]

[youtube]Lo1RTebuonk[/youtube]

Go fuck yourself jebukeyomama. I was on topic until yo little play pals rudely like the little stinking back stabbing jew bitches that they are started with the pointless insults. You call me defending myself to these FOR REAL TROLLS ...trolling? Piss on you and your cheesy little neg rep.
I didn't take you for a backstabbing piece of shit like the other two. Well you is what you is.

Oh ya ...pissant... I go where I want and do what I want. Act civil and I cause no grief act like this and your preppy little reps will be the least of the problem.

 

[Luissa]

So you are for the killing of another person for the reason of justice Jebuka because you can rationalize it but since you cannot rationalize abortion, it is murdering an unborn child as you say. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

If you can't tell the difference between an unborn or a newborn child and Ricardo Ramirez and Charles Manson, you have successfully proven that you are a totally ammoral person and a complete idiot.

Even if a person killed twenty people they are still a human and you are saying it is alright in this case for another human to take their life, one could even say it is a 'later term' abortion.

Robert Pickton surrendered any protections of his life by society when he murdered each of those ~60 women.

Explain how it is moral to punish every single member of society for Ted Bundy's crimes for stealing from them what they rightfully earn through their own labors to provide for someone who is a murderer and cannot be released into the public ever again.


Yea, you're an idiot. Shutup and stop proving it so oft.

SO using your theory why should I support the babies that will be born on welfare instead of being aborted? And in this case you get decide which is the right type of homicide and who deserves it but when it comes to a women's body she doesn't get decide if she wants to carry a pregnancy to full term. NOw you are just proving what an idiot you are!

 

[JBeukema]

[rn on welfare instead of being aborted?

So, you equate a serial killer living off of the public dime with an innocent child?

Using that non-logic, you seek to justify killing children because it's inconvenient to provide for a child who has done no wrong

at the same time, you object to capital punishment on the grounds that serial killers should be supported and all of society punished for the killer's crime


Yet you insult my intelligence and accuse non-baykillers of hypocrisy?

You didn't think tat out before you posted it, did you?

No, take your moronic non-reasoning to the appropriate threads

 

[Navy1960]

I'm only going to add to this thread by adding a personal story to it. Several years ago my Uncle was murdered by a young man then, who had spent most of his life in jail My Uncle was a hard working family man who had served his country during world war 2 and spent most of the rest of his life building a small business for his family. One day he while on his way home from work his truck had a flat tire and he pulled off the road to change it. While doing so he was approached by a young man asking for change which my Uncle then gave to him. My Uncle had laid the tire iron down by his side as he put the tire new tire on his truck and in doing so the young man picked it up and demanded all his money which from the police reports it was given to him. Then the young man struck my Uncle 52 time with a tire iron and left him bleeding to death on the side of the road. He was later arrested at his home after having spent the money on drugs and beer. Now during the penalty phase od his trial while my grandmother was still alive she was asked to give a statement. She is the SOLE reason this young man is alive today. She asked the court to spare his life because hse believed that for him to sit in prison knowing he would never get out would be an even worse punishment than simply a quick painless death. All these years later, this man has sat there, watch TV , able to eat, sleep, read, get a diploma, free medical care, while my cousins have had to endure graduations without a father, birthdays, holidays, and no father to give them away at their weddings. These people that take someones life like this take more than just a life they take the lives of others as well. So when you advocate that the death penalty is cruel or inhumane perhaps you should take the time to ask the victims of these people what they think for a change. I can tell you the death penalty would have been for the man who kiled my Uncle a whole lot more humane than what he gave to my Uncle. I do not think for one moment people should be executed at random until such time they have had the chance to defend themselves and be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. No innocent person should EVER have to endure the same fate as my Uncle by being put to death by a state, however I do think the death penalty should be better left to the families of the victims of those that they slay. I will also say this, if the state ever had a problem finding someone to put the dirtbag that killed my Uncle to death I would have happily done it for free and never lost a moments sleep over it.

 

[Toro]

to many innocent men murdered...1 is to many...I would love to see some of these fuckers dead fer sure..but to protect the innocent...I would have to say no...

I agree completely.

If one innocent person is executed, then that is murder and no better than what the murderer has done.

I've always been surprised that conservatives who say that government cannot do much right, and say they want government out of people's lives, are so certain that the government is ruthlessly efficient in the judicial process and never makes an error, and are for the single most powerful act of personal violation the government can undertake. People who believe in limited government should oppose capital punishment on this principle alone.