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Wow! I'm sure you'll dazzle Jesus with your convincing case that poor people don't actually exist in the USA.
btw, according to wiki:
The "absolute poverty line" is the threshold below which families or individuals are considered to be lacking the resources to meet the basic needs for healthy living; having insufficient income to provide the food, shelter and clothing needed to preserve health.
That is not how "poor" are defined in America. which is the WHOLE point.
Actually, it is how poor is defined in America.
Well at least according to Wiki. On the other hand, the government looks at it a bit differently:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/definitions.html
And that changes my point because?
The definition is where one can begin to discuss something like this, otherwise the goal posts keep moving.
Who is paying for these 45 million Americans without healthcare insurance when they use the emergency room as a Doctor's office though? Is it ONLY the Hospital that picks up the tabs on the uninsured? Do the Tax payers pick up this cost for some of them? Or do those that have to pay the very high insurance premium for healthcover really pay the cost of this healthcare that you say these 45 million have access to?
In my area of the country there are very very few churches that run the hospitals and a bunch of FOR PROFITS, and some NON-profits...who are not "church" run.... i don't know of any church run hospitals in my region of maine, at all....in fact.
Who do you think will pay for it if it's nationalized?
In Eastern Oregon/Washington we have St. Anthony's, Good Shepherd, St Mary's.....Eugene has Sacred Heart....all Catholic hospitals. Pioneer Memorial and St. Charles in Bend, Mercy Healthcare in Roseburg, and all Providence facilities.
I found a list of Maine hospitals and found St Andrew's, St Joseph's and St Mary's....in Boothbay Harbor, Bangor and Lewiston.
In the Catholic hospitals around here, if a person is unable to pay, they are encouraged to fill out a form to determine their eligibility for charity, i.e., the hospital pays the tab. It is uncomplicated, and you don't have to provide tax returns or proof of income or anything like that. In some cases, medical expenses can be picked up retroactively by state/federal assistance programs (in Oregon MAA/MAF, which is medical coverage for hardship cases...children in the family and only one parent/dead parent/illness of a parent) will pick up retroactive medical for up to 3 months back. There are programs for qualified pregnant non-citizens through the state....
People don't realize these programs are in place and functioning because the battle cry has been "people are dying on the streets because they don't have access to health care!" It is at best a misrepresentation and at worst, an out and out lie. The ONLY people I see who have trouble getting health care are people who are in the system trying to be declared disabled, and who are having a hard time getting qualified as disabled, and in the meantime are unable to work. These folks can't pay for meds. They can get in to see doctors and make it to clinics and get the prescriptions, but pharmacies don't have programs for meds for the underprivileged.
But this claptrap about children and parents dying because they can't afford medical care is just bs.
Mental illness is a different story, not so much because you can't find it for free but because there just aren't enough providers to go around, and in the 70s all the state hospitals were shut down at the behest of bleeding hearts who thought all crazies should be released out into society instead of being cooped up all the time. (Hello hordes of homeless people who won't take your meds.....who are starting to die off, I might add because of their inability to pursue medical care and the lives they choose to lead).
The system is huge and overtaxed as it is, but still limps along pretty well. No, you can't get premium dental work done for free...but you can get abcesses lanced, strep throat treated, cancer treated, pregnancy bills paid, prenatal care, and insurance for your kids. It's state run and thus there are sometimes waiting lists, shoddy service and substandard care (particularly for dental for adults) but national health will make that WORSE, not better. It's shoddy because they get flat rates for the work they do, so of course the less the provider puts out, the bigger the profit margin. Doctors aren't bad about this, but dentists definitely are.
NO, I don't know THAT, at all Allie.You know, of course, that insurance companies are the root of all evil....
Yes, the insurance companies dictate care by determining what they will pay for and what they won't, which hobbles the doctors. They determine how much of what medication they will make available to patients (which is a killer for people who need pain medication).
It's not them, just a wee bit of "them", the CEO's who make the decisions, the board of directors who hire them, and the stock holders of all of these health insurance companies are the ones that should spend the time in Hospitals and Er rooms....not necesarily the common worker at the insurance companies....imo.All medical insurance employees should be forced to work in hospitals and er rooms where the patients can get to them......
It's not them, just a wee bit of "them", the CEO's who make the decisions, the board of directors who hire them, and the stock holders of all of these health insurance companies are the ones that should spend the time in Hospitals and Er rooms....not necesarily the common worker at the insurance companies....imo.All medical insurance employees should be forced to work in hospitals and er rooms where the patients can get to them......
Fair enough. Apparently what I posted was the official government definition used to determine if one is eligible for federal benefits, while the census bureau's is used for statistics. After that it gets pretty murky.
It's interesting that the census bureau doesn't include non-cash benefits in it's calculations of who is poor and who is not.
Didn't this thread say as a Christian? It didn't say as a tax payer, as a republican, as a democrat, as a U.S. citizen, as the U.S. govt, as a CEO or President, or as a healthcare company, it said as a Christian. Therefore, none of the above applies IN THIS THREAD except a person who is living the lifestyle of a Christian.
Yes, taxes might increase; yes the definition of poor is unclear: some people have a job without benefits, some people work and still can't afford decent healthcare, and some people are having a difficult time finding a job period;
Yes, this might be a new concept in America yet, old news to other countries; Yes, people are unsure about how this will work and the result of it; Yes, there are Religious hospitals that offer support IF you are eligible, key word "IF".
However, the bottom line is, as a Christian, which should be above all things, it is clear that Jesus encourages us to help out others less fortunate than us, even if it means we have to sacrifice something; Jesus sacrificed his life for us and we (Christians) can't sacrifice paying more taxes even if it means more people will have a chance at a better life??? Where are our priorities in this country??
I know what your saying, I am not one of these people that is "all for" a universal health care plan all on the usa tax payer's shoulders.....that will give the Corporations and companies that are supplying it as a benefit and part of our total compensation at our jobs, the BIGGEST TAX CUT of sorts in their History and become profitable immediately, overnight!!!!!
THEY are probably the ones truely behind all of this, incognito....without anyone really knowing it, pushing the total universal thing....where businesses no longer have to pay anything for their employee health care coverage and ALL of it on to our shoulders via our taxes imo.....
HOWEVER, this does not mean that I think we don't have some pretty big problems with our health care system and with more and more business not being able to provide this benefit for more and more Americans daily or more americans not being able to pay for their portion of the coverage because it is going up year after year for them too, and at a rate way above inflation or their pay!
Before you know it by default it WILL BE A UNIVERSAL PLAN for nearly half of America who are then uninsured and tax dollars will be reimbursing the Hospitals along with those left with insurance paying such high prices that prohibit the most, to help cover the hospital's costs for the uninsured that is not reimbursed by the State/Federal monies.
It's a mess Allie, a mess....
My fear and concern would be not taking steps to reduce the price of healthcare per capita, BEFORE any kind of universal plans are initiated.
This would be a huge mistake.
We better figure out how to get the entire costs of R& D for the entire world's pharmacuticals off of OUR SHOULDERS ALONE! This is why meds here are more than any country's in the world, we pay for all of the research and development in the cost of our meds in the USA ONLY.....every other country has negotiated a much lower cost for their citizen's meds.
That alone will reduce medicare costs a few hundred billion and save money for the rest of us too....including the insurance companies covering our meds.
Streamline paperwork, and records, and pricing.....save long term.
Test various Universal plans in individual states BEFORE EVER considering a National one....right now, Massachusetts has just initiated one that is coming in to fruition, we need to follow it and see if it actually saves everyone money while covering near everyone, no uninsured, or a just a few.
There are a couple of other states that are trying other universal coverage for the people in their states too...
Now this kind of Universal Coverage is NOT REALLY Universal Coverage because it is done through the free market, (SO they say!), with Private Insurance Companies Involved and Businesses still involved in their Share....
Who knows why it is called a Universal HC Plan? There are no state run hospitals or it is not done by ONE PAYER, like paying the State for Medicare....but I suppose it is Universal in the sense that EVERYONE is to have coverage....
and how they plan to save in the long run is by everyone having coverage. Therefore, the hospitals do not have to burden a share of the expense of Emergency visits by the uninsured without Medicaid coverage or the uninsured Medicaid recipiants that the state would then reimburse hospitals at Medicare agreed prices, which are usually lower than the "going" price.
Well, all of the much of these huge costs were put in to the price of our medical care....making it much more expensive for every test we take and every visit we make, and every drug we swallow....
Then on top of this, you got Insurance companies wanting to make their Share, which is 1/3 the profits of the healthcare industry today...probably...
So, I am not against finding a REAL sollution to the double digit rises each and every year, of our Health Care Costs....if someone can figure out how to do this, WITHOUT diminishing our services, I'm all ears....but until then, I'm really not for it.
Care
Yes, what we were talking about is relevant because the point is, why would we endorse something that will make the situation worse and not better? So while a good Christian wants good health for everyone and all that, in no way does being a "good Christian" mean one should endorse bogus plans which will in no way improve the situation, simply because there's fear mongering going on and a tag on the program that says "this is to help people."
