Can we at least agree on this?

[CrusaderFrank]

He did it to himelf.

You're broken

 

[Kosh]

Is it my imagination, or are the rubes becoming more and more feral and bitter? I swear, it's accelerating. Is it the increasing risk of legal action their mullah if facing that has them so agitated?

Are you seeing this, too?

This coming from the far left grifter,

TDS is a real thing and apparently the far left does not see it!

Why is Trump such a hot issue? Why not any other president or candidate or any politician?

Only a hyper partisan would not see this!

 

[Dragonlady]

Is it my imagination, or are the rubes becoming more and more feral and bitter? I swear, it's accelerating. Is it the increasing risk of legal action their mullah if facing that has them so agitated?

Are you seeing this, too?

Oh yes. Most definitely. In large part because there is literally no legal or moral defense for Trump's theft of hundreds of top secret documents. There is no plausible legal reason for him to have even taken these documents.

Trump's financial con of his supporters is also getting a lot more press. A lot of anger been ginned up with no place to go. Everything they've believe in and fought against has all been a lie. Even the kids are testifying against him.

It's also the rising because they were so CERTAIN they had the midterms and then they could go on a Q-anon fantasy revenge tour, start investigating Obama, the Clintons, the FBI, and impeaching Joe Biden.

 

[jknowgood]

No they didn't. Conspiracy to collude was proven; U.S. has new intel that Manafort pal gave Trump campaign data to Russia

All you do is repeat lie, repeat lie, repeat lie, and you can't change your lies.

What collusion have you proven?

 

[jknowgood]

Oh yes. Most definitely. In large part because there is literally no legal or moral defense for Trump's theft of hundreds of top secret documents. There is no plausible legal reason for him to have even taken these documents.

Trump's financial con of his supporters is also getting a lot more press. A lot of anger been ginned up with no place to go. Everything they've believe in and fought against has all been a lie. Even the kids are testifying against him.

It's also the rising because they were so CERTAIN they had the midterms and then they could go on a Q-anon fantasy revenge tour, start investigating Obama, the Clintons, the FBI, and impeaching Joe Biden.

Lol, your party is done in November! Just keep preaching sista!

 

[BWK]

You're broken

Whatever that means?

 

[BWK]

This coming from the far left grifter,

TDS is a real thing and apparently the far left does not see it!

Why is Trump such a hot issue? Why not any other president or candidate or any politician?

Only a hyper partisan would not see this!

Trump is a hot issue because he was a president who was/is a criminal.

 

[BWK]

What collusion have you proven?

LOL! We now know you cannot read.

 

[jknowgood]

Repeat lies everyone has debunked. Are you mentally sick?

Show me the evidence he got, or shut up.

 

[jknowgood]

LOL! We now know you cannot read.

I guess you cannot read, there is no evidence but hearsay.

 

[jknowgood]

Muellers job was never to convict, but to expose the crimes. He did that. Barr hijacked the pertinent parts of his own reading of the Mueller report, whereby wiping it under the rug. When that was exposed, as of late, we now find that Trump was/is guilty as sin by way of obstruction and conspiracy.

No crime was committed.

 

[jknowgood]

LOL! We now know you cannot read.

If you could prove it, Trump would be in jail. Bless your heart!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

A close associate of Trump (Stone) lying to federal authorities, impeding an investigation, when he had information relating to the Trump campaign's communications with Wikileaks about their document dumps, at Trump's direction, is nothing?

I guess it is if Dear Leader is involved.

Fauxi spent the last 2 years lying to Feferal Authorities

 

[BS Filter]

Trump once said, “Then, I have an Article II, where I have to the right to do whatever I want as president.” It would appear no one in his admin or inner circle dared to inform him of his colossal misunderstanding of Article II powers. But he's finding out now.

But this thread isn't about the sordid MaL affair. It's about whether we all can agree the absolute power to pardon people possessed by the POTUS needs to be reformed?

One of the features of Trump's presidency was the extent to which he exposed weaknesses in the laws, rules, and protocols governing a prez's behavior. Weaknesses that existed because no one ever contemplated that a prez would so extensively exploit them. This article explores some of the areas in need of reform and suggests remedies to address them.

Repairing the Rule of Law: An Agenda for Post-Trump Reform

What should be done in a post-Trump world to restore the rule of law?

www.lawfareblog.com

One of them being.............-Pardon reform. There can be little doubt of two things. First, as currently constructed, the president’s pardon power is nearly absolute. Second, President Trump’s use of the pardon power has transgressed the Founders’ expectations. Indeed, the idea that a president might pardon his own criminal confederates (as is arguably the case with Roger Stone) is exactly why George Mason opposed the pardon power altogether. At some point, Congress might give serious consideration to a constitutional amendment that, for example, makes pardons illegal for individuals personally known to the president and makes the misuse of the power judicially reviewable.

As the author points out, Stone is the most glaring example of an abuse because he possessed information that related to Trump's exposure in the Mueller investigation. After making it clear to Stone his silence would be rewarded Stone was in fact pardoned. I can think of no other example of a previous prez so manifestly abusing his authority.

The question at hand being, can we agree no POTUS should be allowed to pardon someone who could act as a hostile witness to the prez in a civil or criminal case or in an impeachment trial?

So you don't like the people Trump pardoned. Too damn bad.

 

[Dragonlady]

This coming from the far left grifter,

TDS is a real thing and apparently the far left does not see it!

Why is Trump such a hot issue? Why not any other president or candidate or any politician?

Only a hyper partisan would not see this!

There is no "far grifter left". Nobody is raising money off an election that wasn't stolen.

TDS is the belief that Donald Trump is anything but a liar and a grifter. You seem truly afflicted.\

Trump works very, very hard to make sure he's still a hot issue. He's committing new crimes, making press releases about the "FBI raided my home". Poor baby.

 

[Dragonlady]

So you don't like the people Trump pardoned. Too damn bad.

They won't stay pardoned for long. Bannon is already headed back to jail on state charges. Flynn will be charged with something in connection with January 6th, as will Stone. Manafort might manage to keep himself out of jail a second time, but he had to pay a $40 million fine, so he hardly got off with nothing.

 

[BS Filter]

They won't stay pardoned for long. Bannon is already headed back to jail on state charges. Flynn will be charged with something in connection with January 6th, as will Stone. Manafort might manage to keep himself out of jail a second time, but he had to pay a $40 million fine, so he hardly got off with nothing.

I guess Trump will have to pardon them again when he's re-elected.

 

[Mac1958]

The biggest mistake to date for these folks, is clinging to someone who has zero interest in them, while they go to their knees protecting his criminal grift.

We may never know this, but I wonder of part of this is the realization that they have been had by (what they should have easily seen was) a con man. And not just "had" in the traditional sense, but these people have really given their hearts and souls to him, and this. I can imagine a lot of anger from that, much of it based on self esteem.

I don't know. We may not know for a long time. I know they'll study this like they study cults (they already are), and study those who are able to find the will to leave it on their own.

 

[Mac1958]

Oh yes. Most definitely. In large part because there is literally no legal or moral defense for Trump's theft of hundreds of top secret documents. There is no plausible legal reason for him to have even taken these documents.

Trump's financial con of his supporters is also getting a lot more press. A lot of anger been ginned up with no place to go. Everything they've believe in and fought against has all been a lie. Even the kids are testifying against him.

It's also the rising because they were so CERTAIN they had the midterms and then they could go on a Q-anon fantasy revenge tour, start investigating Obama, the Clintons, the FBI, and impeaching Joe Biden.

Yeah, all good points.

Looking desperately for a silver lining here, maybe we can hope that this new level of rage (on top of what already existed) is part of the process of waking up. Maybe they're not mad at others, but mad at themselves for what they've fallen for. So they lash out. Even more than before.

We're sure as hell gonna find out.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yeah, all good points.

Looking desperately for a silver lining here, maybe we can hope that this new level of rage (on top of what already existed) is part of the process of waking up. Maybe they're not mad at others, but mad at themselves for what they've fallen for. So they lash out. Even more than before.

We're sure as hell gonna find out.

I think you're right on this score. But I also think it makes them more dangerous, not less. Especially since they've been brainwashed into believing that the left are literally demons, bent on destroying the country.

In Canada, when a party "loses its way" and forgets who they work for, Canadian voters destroy them. When the Progressive Conservative Party gave Canadians NAFTA in the early 90's and an 8% VAT to implement it, Canadian voters reduced them to 2 seats in the House of Commons, from a healthy majority. The PC Party no longer exists.

Americans punish Republicans for their economic messes, but the moment Democrats clean up the mess, voters hand the White House right back to Republicans to crash it again. It makes no sense. Our voters have short memories too, but not THAT short.