Can There Be Democracy Under Islam?

[antagon]

innocent pussycats

 

[mudwhistle]

The history of the Baptists does not begin in America, but rather in Europe. The rise of the American Baptists in America to prominence only begins after 1800 during the Second Great Awakening. Here is a decent website for Baptist history. Baptist History

Wonderful...thanks for the history lesson. Europe seems to be guilty of alot of past evils.

Any criminal religious activity seems to have originated from outside the US.

Thanks for providing the incite.

I'm still waiting to hear about the Baptists running amok cutting off heads and subjugating

Christians (including Baptists) slaughtered up to 90% of America's indigenous population. I am quite sure that Baptists were well represented in the history of lynching in the South after the Civil War. If I remember right, the Southern Baptists opposed emancipation and even discussion about the morality of slavery.

I am glad that you appreciate learning history, 'whistle.

I wonder if they did that because they were Baptists or because they were racists.

I also wonder what political party most of those Southern Baptists belonged to...

Also I wonder what political party also has the only former Grand Wizard of the KKK currently in the Senate.

I'm not knocking you because you brought up a good point....but I think that the realities of religious persecution in this country and around the world needs to be addressed and the causative issues clarified, not just rationalized by a loud political action group.

 

[Charles Stucker]

i think you could pick leaders in a theocracy, no problem. it could still be democracy whether you held it over or under any principle.

democracy is held below representation in the US, such that majority gives way somewhat to plurality. it is subject to law and process. islam has all that law and process built into it, maybe out of a long history of functioning as a basis for societal control. that democracy is subject to that is perhaps an impediment, from an occidental perspective, but still democracy.

Letting people vote in an overly controlled manner does not equate with democracy
Asa gedanken experiment - a conqueror overtakes a region and then tell the people "Because of your love for Democracy I shall permit you to elect you leader, tomorrow you may go to the polls and cast a vote for any of the candidates for governance of your province in my great empire" and when one looks at the ballot they have two choices, both loyal proxies of the conqueror who will represent only the conqueror's desires.

Voting without democracy is possible QED.

Islam remains a violent religion, soaked in blood. Buddhism, Christianity, and Hinduism (to name three other major religions) have advanced past that cycle of violence. Why would any reasonable person desire to go back to the bloody days of yesteryear with Islam?
Note also that both Christianity and Buddhism began peacefully while Islam was incredibly violent from the word go, and that while Christian teachings (the New Testament) and Buddhist scriptures all pronounce peace and brotherhood for all as the way, Islam in the Koran teaches adherents to enslave and murder the infidel.
Then when caught Islam invariably claims the translation was wrong and the intent was different; all while taking violent actions based on the bloody teachings of Mohamed and absolving themselves of any blame because they have a religious duty to kill infidels.

 

[mudwhistle]

The history of the Baptists does not begin in America, but rather in Europe. The rise of the American Baptists in America to prominence only begins after 1800 during the Second Great Awakening. Here is a decent website for Baptist history. Baptist History

By the way...everything in the US originated from somewhere else....except Native Americans.

 

[manifold]

The history of the Baptists does not begin in America, but rather in Europe. The rise of the American Baptists in America to prominence only begins after 1800 during the Second Great Awakening. Here is a decent website for Baptist history. Baptist History

By the way...everything in the US originated from somewhere else....except Native Americans.

Them too, actually.

They migrated over from Asia when the land was still connected.

 

[mudwhistle]

It seems that no one has clean hands.

Well maybe the Wiccans. Have they ever attacked anyone?

One of my nieces is a Wiccan. She's bi-polar. She attacked me because I told here Robert Redford was a hypocrite.

 

[mudwhistle]

The history of the Baptists does not begin in America, but rather in Europe. The rise of the American Baptists in America to prominence only begins after 1800 during the Second Great Awakening. Here is a decent website for Baptist history. Baptist History

By the way...everything in the US originated from somewhere else....except Native Americans.

Them too, actually.

They migrated over from Asia when the land was still connected.

I guess. But they still want Manhattan back.

I guess we can give Russia Alaska, give California back to Mexico, give the French LA, give the Sioux and the Apache the Western plains, and we can all go back to Europe and live with the Arabs.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Wonderful...thanks for the history lesson. Europe seems to be guilty of alot of past evils.

Any criminal religious activity seems to have originated from outside the US.

Thanks for providing the incite.

I'm still waiting to hear about the Baptists running amok cutting off heads and subjugating

Christians (including Baptists) slaughtered up to 90% of America's indigenous population. I am quite sure that Baptists were well represented in the history of lynching in the South after the Civil War. If I remember right, the Southern Baptists opposed emancipation and even discussion about the morality of slavery.

I am glad that you appreciate learning history, 'whistle.

I wonder if they did that because they were Baptists or because they were racists.

I also wonder what political party most of those Southern Baptists belonged to...

Also I wonder what political party also has the only former Grand Wizard of the KKK currently in the Senate.

I'm not knocking you because you brought up a good point....but I think that the realities of religious persecution in this country and around the world needs to be addressed and the causative issues clarified, not just rationalized by a loud political action group.

I am in full agreement with you.

 

[Douger]

There can never be "democracy" under any religion, or any society that trades with paper. PERIOD.
The only true 'democracy" that ever existed was tribal life.

Well. Our " heroes' took care of that little problem now, didn't they ?

I italicize "democracy" since it's a complete fucking farce. 51% tell the rest what to do. That isn't freedom.It's mob rules, gangland style.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It seems that no one has clean hands.

Well maybe the Wiccans. Have they ever attacked anyone?

One of my nieces is a Wiccan. She's bi-polar. She attacked me because I told here Robert Redford was a hypocrite.

Hmmm. I wonder if that is common.

 

[mudwhistle]

It seems that no one has clean hands.

Well maybe the Wiccans. Have they ever attacked anyone?

One of my nieces is a Wiccan. She's bi-polar. She attacked me because I told here Robert Redford was a hypocrite.

Hmmm. I wonder if that is common.

I don't know. I never went to any of their ceremonies.

I have a problem with stripping in front of strangers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

One of my nieces is a Wiccan. She's bi-polar. She attacked me because I told here Robert Redford was a hypocrite.

Hmmm. I wonder if that is common.

I don't know. I never went to any of their ceremonies.

I have a problem with stripping in front of strangers.

It is a nature kind of religion.

 

[Kalam]

Islam remains a violent religion, soaked in blood.

And it will remain so until justice is established. There would be no need to fight if Muslims weren't oppressed by others as well as fellow "Muslims."

Buddhism, Christianity, and Hinduism (to name three other major religions) have advanced past that cycle of violence.

I see you haven't been keeping score.

Note also that both Christianity and Buddhism began peacefully while Islam was incredibly violent from the word go,

Violence became necessary when pagan persecution began. "Permission to fight is given to those upon whom war is made, because they are oppressed."

and that while Christian teachings (the New Testament)

At the very least, "Christian teachings" encompass the Jewish Torah and the Tanakh. This is to say nothing of the writings of early church leaders such as Augustine, the history of the Catholic papacy, or the writings of Martin Luther.

and Buddhist scriptures all pronounce peace and brotherhood for all as the way,

Some honorable teachings can be found in Buddhism, but it is by and a large a religion that seeks to isolate itself entirely from the material world, as if this entire existence is pointless. I take it you've never read any of the sermons attributed to Gautama Buddha.

Islam in the Koran teaches adherents to enslave and murder the infidel.

Yet you've consistently been shown to be wrong when you've attempted to advance this point of yours.

Why do some of the more psychotic kafirs devote themselves to claiming that we want to kill them? It's as if you want that to be the case. I suppose your martyr complex can be attributed to your presumably Christian upbringing.

Then when caught Islam invariably claims the translation was wrong and the intent was different; all while taking violent actions based on the bloody teachings of Mohamed and absolving themselves of any blame because they have a religious duty to kill infidels.

Good thing non-Muslims have someone with such an intimate knowledge of Islam in their midst to warn them of the forthcoming slaughter.

You may begin, if you wish, by responding to my rebuttal of another of your laughable claims a few pages back.

 

[antagon]

And it will remain so until justice is established. There would be no need to fight if Muslims weren't oppressed by others as well as fellow "Muslims."

muslims need to get a goddamn job. if you get up and work, instead of handycrafting foreign flags for demonstrations, there wouldnt be an issue at all. muslim nations ought to concentrate on developing some employment and prosperity, instead of anger and ignorance.

ive been to kuwait, saudi arabia, egypt, dubai and jordan. i found these countries (in the cities) to be functional and respectible. i put that up to employment and industry.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Violence became necessary when pagan persecution began. "Permission to fight is given to those upon whom war is made, because they are oppressed."

And Islam defines oppression as "someone else is in charge."
If they are a minority they make babies and immigrate to try and become the majority.
As long as they are a minority they scream about persecution of the oppressed minorities.

So soon as they become a majority democracy vanishes along with the rights of non-believers.

Single best word to describe Islam is Hypocracy

 

[Sunni Man]

If they are a minority they make babies and immigrate to try and become the majority.
As long as they are a minority they scream about persecution of the oppressed minorities.

So soon as they become a majority democracy vanishes along with the rights of non-believers.

You made this same claim on another thread.

I then asked you to provide proof of this ever happening.

You came up with zip/nada/nothing

Now you are posting the same BS once again.

So again I ask; when and where has this EVER happened???

 

[mudwhistle]

Islam remains a violent religion, soaked in blood.

And it will remain so until justice is established. There would be no need to fight if Muslims weren't oppressed by others as well as fellow "Muslims."

Buddhism, Christianity, and Hinduism (to name three other major religions) have advanced past that cycle of violence.

I see you haven't been keeping score.


Violence became necessary when pagan persecution began. "Permission to fight is given to those upon whom war is made, because they are oppressed."


At the very least, "Christian teachings" encompass the Jewish Torah and the Tanakh. This is to say nothing of the writings of early church leaders such as Augustine, the history of the Catholic papacy, or the writings of Martin Luther.


Some honorable teachings can be found in Buddhism, but it is by and a large a religion that seeks to isolate itself entirely from the material world, as if this entire existence is pointless. I take it you've never read any of the sermons attributed to Gautama Buddha.

Islam in the Koran teaches adherents to enslave and murder the infidel.

Yet you've consistently been shown to be wrong when you've attempted to advance this point of yours.

Why do some of the more psychotic kafirs devote themselves to claiming that we want to kill them? It's as if you want that to be the case. I suppose your martyr complex can be attributed to your presumably Christian upbringing.

Then when caught Islam invariably claims the translation was wrong and the intent was different; all while taking violent actions based on the bloody teachings of Mohamed and absolving themselves of any blame because they have a religious duty to kill infidels.

Good thing non-Muslims have someone with such an intimate knowledge of Islam in their midst to warn them of the forthcoming slaughter.

You may begin, if you wish, by responding to my rebuttal of another of your laughable claims a few pages back.

I love what they define as oppression. It's really dignity or bigotry that they use to fight and murder.

Oppression is not a college student with a wealthy family attempting to blow up an aircraft with a diaper.

Oppression is not being the son of the richest contractor in Saudi Arabia. [Osama Bin Laden]

 

[Sunni Man]

Oppression is not a college student with a wealthy family attempting to blow up an aircraft with a diaper.

Oppression is not being the son of the richest contractor in Saudi Arabia. [Osama Bin Laden]

A person's finincal status has nothing to do with their commitment to fight against oppression and injustice for their fellow man.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were two of the wealthiest men in America when they decided to sacrifice everything and launch the Revolution against the British.

 

[The Rabbi]

And it will remain so until justice is established. There would be no need to fight if Muslims weren't oppressed by others as well as fellow "Muslims."

muslims need to get a goddamn job. if you get up and work, instead of handycrafting foreign flags for demonstrations, there wouldnt be an issue at all. muslim nations ought to concentrate on developing some employment and prosperity, instead of anger and ignorance.

ive been to kuwait, saudi arabia, egypt, dubai and jordan. i found these countries (in the cities) to be functional and respectible. i put that up to employment and industry.

Good.

WHy is it Muslims aren't fighting oppression in their own countries first? Was there a more oppressive person than Saddam Hussein? And yet no one raised a hand against him until Bush overthrew him. The result is the Iraqis are the only non-oppressed Muslims under Muslim rule.
What about Iran? Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? Syria? Egypt? Jordan? All corrupt oppressive governments.
Maybe because if the raised a hand they'd find their asses under the jail, unlike Israel and the U.S. where they get accorded rights. It's like criminals picking on little old ladies instead of burly biker dudes.

 

[Sunni Man]

Was there a more oppressive person than Saddam Hussein?

The international human rights criminals Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon make Saddam look like a choir boy.