Can There Be A Compromise on Minimum Wage?

[TakeAStepBack]

If 10.10 is a good arbitrarily chosen value, or even $15, why not $50 or even $100? I mean wouldn't that mean we just put most of the federal poverty level into the middle and upper middle echelon?

 

[Disir]

It's not arbitrary. Have a look see.
Seattle workers push for fifteen dollar minimum wage

This is the Working Washington site:
Fighting for a Fair Economy | Working Washington

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Oh, it most certainly is chosen arbitrarily.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Even if you combine your wages you are nowhere near upper middle class.
I consider upper middle class to start around 150,000 a year. And even that depends on where you live.

Funny, the experts consider upper middle class to be around $62,500 in the US.

Funny.....try that 62,500 in NY and see how far it gets you. Not sure if you got to exited and didnt finish reading my post or what,but I thought I made it pretty clear that it depended on where you live.

I did read your post, and took exception to your claim that upper middle class starts at $150,000.

Your response is more proof that a national minimum wage is stupid, which is my entire point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not arbitrary. Have a look see.
Seattle workers push for fifteen dollar minimum wage

This is the Working Washington site:
Fighting for a Fair Economy | Working Washington

Still arbitrary.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Funny, the experts consider upper middle class to be around $62,500 in the US.

Funny.....try that 62,500 in NY and see how far it gets you. Not sure if you got to exited and didnt finish reading my post or what,but I thought I made it pretty clear that it depended on where you live.

I did read your post, and took exception to your claim that upper middle class starts at $150,000.

Your response is more proof that a national minimum wage is stupid, which is my entire point.

I agree. There should be no minimum wage. People should be paid what they are worth. Unfortunately for some that would be a buck fifty an hour.

 

[Disir]

It's not arbitrary. Have a look see.
Seattle workers push for fifteen dollar minimum wage

This is the Working Washington site:
Fighting for a Fair Economy | Working Washington

Still arbitrary.

When unions come to the table is it still arbitrary?

 

[Flopper]

You don't understand how poor the south is, do you.

The poverty threshold for a single person in the lower 48 is $11,490/yr. That's a wage of $5.52/hr.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not arbitrary. Have a look see.
Seattle workers push for fifteen dollar minimum wage

This is the Working Washington site:
Fighting for a Fair Economy | Working Washington

Still arbitrary.

When unions come to the table is it still arbitrary?

Nope.

 

[Disir]

Still arbitrary.

When unions come to the table is it still arbitrary?

Nope.

Then we shall just have to bring back the unions, won't we?

 

[Flopper]

Funny.....try that 62,500 in NY and see how far it gets you. Not sure if you got to exited and didnt finish reading my post or what,but I thought I made it pretty clear that it depended on where you live.

I did read your post, and took exception to your claim that upper middle class starts at $150,000.

Your response is more proof that a national minimum wage is stupid, which is my entire point.

I agree. There should be no minimum wage. People should be paid what they are worth. Unfortunately for some that would be a buck fifty an hour.

According to the BLS there is only 3.5% of the workers making at or below minimum wage. For those over 25, the percentage falls to .8%. If minimum wage is raised to $10, it will not substantially lower the level of poverty nor will it substantial increase unemployment. It is nothing more than a political joust between the Right and Left. At some point there will be a compromise and both sides will return home proudly proclaiming their victory.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I did read your post, and took exception to your claim that upper middle class starts at $150,000.

Your response is more proof that a national minimum wage is stupid, which is my entire point.

I agree. There should be no minimum wage. People should be paid what they are worth. Unfortunately for some that would be a buck fifty an hour.

According to the BLS there is only 3.5% of the workers making at or below minimum wage. For those over 25, the percentage falls to .8%. If minimum wage is raised to $10, it will not substantially lower the level of poverty nor will it substantial increase unemployment. It is nothing more than a political joust between the Right and Left. At some point there will be a compromise and both sides will return home proudly proclaiming their victory.

You wont get an argument from me on that. Except for the loss of jobs part.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When unions come to the table is it still arbitrary?

Nope.

Then we shall just have to bring back the unions, won't we?

It is amazing to me that people who claim I hate change want to "go back."

 

[Disir]

Nope.

Then we shall just have to bring back the unions, won't we?

It is amazing to me that people who claim I hate change want to "go back."

Say again?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then we shall just have to bring back the unions, won't we?

It is amazing to me that people who claim I hate change want to "go back."

Say again?

No thanks.

 

[Disir]

That's cool. In fact, it is a clear demonstration of why they are necessary.

 

[auditor0007]

The left wants 15.00 an hour, and the right doesn't want an increase at all, right? (Am I missing something?)

So is there a middle ground people are willing to reach? Personally, living in the South, where people get by on about 7.25/hour just fine (so long as they're single anyway), I don't see much reason to increase it to 15.00/hour.

So how about meet in the middle? 10/hour? 9/hour?

The reason I ask this is because I fear that if no compromise as such is made Obama will just freight train a 15.00/hour minimum wage policy.

(Incidentally, I make 12.00/hour and I'm considered upper-middle class.)

Sorry Bud, at $12 per hour you are not even close to upper middle class, unless you live in a third world country. Now what is scary is that some people actually believe that making $25,000 per year makes you middle class.

I'm a Democrat, and as for the minimum wage, I want to see it increased to $10 per hour and then have the minimum wage tied to inflation. I do not want to see a $15 minimum wage. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and that would be way too much of a good thing, which would turn out making it very bad.

 

[auditor0007]

The left wants 15.00 an hour, and the right doesn't want an increase at all, right? (Am I missing something?)

So is there a middle ground people are willing to reach? Personally, living in the South, where people get by on about 7.25/hour just fine (so long as they're single anyway), I don't see much reason to increase it to 15.00/hour.

So how about meet in the middle? 10/hour? 9/hour?

The reason I ask this is because I fear that if no compromise as such is made Obama will just freight train a 15.00/hour minimum wage policy.

(Incidentally, I make 12.00/hour and I'm considered upper-middle class.)

I thought the left wanted $10.10 per hour?

I would venture to say that most Dems would be more supportive of $10 over $15.

 

[auditor0007]

Minimum wage should be $23.50/hr.

Democrats want to increase it because it helps people.

Republicans don't because they like slaves.

It's difficult to take anything you say seriously when you post things like this.

 

[Andylusion]

The left wants 15.00 an hour, and the right doesn't want an increase at all, right? (Am I missing something?)

So is there a middle ground people are willing to reach? Personally, living in the South, where people get by on about 7.25/hour just fine (so long as they're single anyway), I don't see much reason to increase it to 15.00/hour.

So how about meet in the middle? 10/hour? 9/hour?

The reason I ask this is because I fear that if no compromise as such is made Obama will just freight train a 15.00/hour minimum wage policy.

(Incidentally, I make 12.00/hour and I'm considered upper-middle class.)

Why does each group support those positions?

The leftists in our country, think that the minimum wage benefits people.

The right-wing in our country (like myself), know that raising the minimum wage harms people.

Every time you jack up the minimum wage, you cause unemployment.

To understand this, consider yourself. Let's say that you own a home, and you have a lawn, and someone comes to your house and says they will mow your lawn for $20.

You think, that sounds pretty good. Just $20, and I don't have to spend an hour mowing my lawn, don't have to buy a mower, don't have to buy gas, and I can relax on the weekends.

Now let's say that the government steps in, and says the minimum wage for lawn mowers, is $100 a lawn.

So a guy comes up and says he'll mow your lawn for $100. Do you do it?

Well gee... for a $100 I could buy my own lawn mower, and enough gas for the whole summer. That's not a good deal.

This is the problem. Government minimum wage laws, do not change the value of the labor to the consumer. Just because the government says that lawn mower people should get $100 a lawn, doesn't mean that you the consumer are willing to pay $100 a lawn.

Now you the consumer are worse off because you can't afford to have this service that benefited you, and the mower guy is worse off because before he was getting $20 every lawn, and now he's getting ZERO.

The issue comes with employment, where there is a person between the labor, and the consumer, which is the employer.

The leftists think the because there is an employer between the labor and consumer, that he will just suck up the cost of the minimum wage. That's wrong. The employer must pass on all costs, including minimum wage costs, onto the consumer.

This is a menu from McDonald's in Norway. Norway actually has no minimum wage at all. Nevertheless, because of the limited low-income labor, the wages of a McDonald's cashier is $15/hr. Now notice the menu? 91 Krone. That roughly translates to $16... for a Big Mac. Just the burger, not the value meal.

Now there are very few McDonald's in Norway, almost all of which are in tourist locations, where people are accustom to high prices.

The point is, that all prices have to be passed on. The only reason McDonald's Norway, can afford to pay employees $15/hr, is because customers are paying $16 for a burger.

That's how that works. And if the customers are not willing to pay that much? What happens then?

McDonald's hires 7,000 touch-screen cashiers | Crave - CNET

McDonald's replaced 7,000 employees in France, with Kiosks. The customers in France were not willing to pay $16 for a burger, thus McDonald's couldn't pay $15/hr to employees.

So what did they do? Fired them. Replaced them with kiosks. The unemployment rate TODAY in France, is over 10%. The unemployment rate for youth in France, the specific group that McDonalds *would have* hired, is 25%.

So are you getting the idea? We see the minimum wage as a harmful policy the hurts the poorest among us, the worst, by driving out jobs. We believe this, because that is what has happened every single time the minimum wage has gone up.

What was the unemployment rate in 2006 when the minimum wage was $5.25? What was the unemployment rate in 2010 after minimum wage hit $7.25?

So when you say let's compromise, and only raise the minimum wage a little.... what you are in effect saying is, "lets compromise and harm people just this much".