Can talking heads be civil?

[rtwngAvngr]

I have strong opinions. One strong opinion is that it is good to be a moderate.

I guess the thing about moderates is you never know what sort of underlying philosophy or worldview directs their thinking. They're kind of shallow and shift in the winds of popularity. Don't like what a moderate thinks? wait twenty minutes.

What OTHER strong opinions do you have, I mean BESIDES a firm commitment to wishy washy-ism?

 

[mattskramer]

I guess the thing about moderates is you never know what sort of underlying philosophy or worldview directs their thinking. They're kind of shallow and shift in the winds of popularity. Don't like what a moderate thinks? wait twenty minutes.

What OTHER strong opinions do you have, I mean BESIDES a firm commitment to wishy washy-ism?

I think that you have the wrong idea about Moderates. Our positions don't change with the winds. They simply don't go to extremes. Speaking for myself, I think that Marijuana should be legalized but cocaine should remain illegal. I would not change my mind the next day and say that Marijuana should remain illegal. I don't believe in total wealth redistribution but I think that a government controlled small welfare system should exist. It is all about moderation and avoiding extremism.

I just don't like generalities and grouping people. If you were to ask someone what party he belongs to and he says "Republican". You may make grand conclusions and assumptions that are wrong with respect to that person. I like some things about the Republican platform but not others. I like things about the Democrat platform but not others. Therefore I call myself a moderate. I would have almost flipped a coin in the last presidential election. That is how much of a moderate I am.

 

[ThomasPaine]

There were no weapons of mass destruction - or any weapons of any great significance for that matter. There was no definitive link between Al Queso and Saddam - oh, we found the 1 guy who happened to be in Iraq, but to say that Saddam had close ties with Al Queso is a stretch. There was no immanent threat to America from Iraq. Oh. Saddam was a bad dictator. Well, North Korea and China have evil dictators too and they pose a greater threat to the USA than did Saddam's sandcastle. What Iraq did provide was a way for Bush to settle a score for his Daddy, a way for the VP to help out his old buddies at Halburton, and to get a name for himself as the "wartime president".

Ok. We did get rid of a bad dictator. Still, all things considered, I simply don't think it was worth the time and money spent. We should have continued our search for Bin Laden. We should have used our resources to strengthen our intelligence, gathered more "proof" that there was a link, WMD, a major threat, etc. and then presented honest and irrefutable proof before the UN. Then, with world support, we could have invaded Iraq more easily.

The United States must remake the Islamic world or die trying, because they WILL die trying to kill us and end Western civilization. Look at London. These folks want us DEAD PERIOD. Our way of life erased. Our beliefs erased. The United States is the only nation, with our great ally Great Britain, which is willing and able to stop Militant Islam. Their goal is clear: the eradication of Western civilization and it's political beliefs (Democracy), it's economic system (Capitalism), and, of course ultimately, it's religious beliefs (Christianity). The fight in Iraq is vital to this overall struggle. It's a beginning in the region in a country we A. Had an ongoing conflict with that was violating terms of the Gulf War peace accord. B. Had a corrupt vicious murdering dictator as its leader. C. Was centrally placed in the Middle East so as to further our influence in the region. D. Could, if things went according to plan, rework the political systems of the Middle East by introducing democracy and hopefully diswaging the citizens from killing us. Hope I've made myself clear. If you've any questions just ask.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think that you have the wrong idea about Moderates. Our positions don't change with the winds. They simply don't go to extremes. Speaking for myself, I think that Marijuana should be legalized but cocaine should remain illegal. I would not change my mind the next day and say that Marijuana should remain illegal. I don't believe in total wealth redistribution but I think that a government controlled small welfare system should exist. It is all about moderation and avoiding extremism.

Oh no. I have them pegged.

 

[ThomasPaine]

the talking heads were totally civil....david byrne was a genius....phsyco killer

Life During Wartime...

 

[Bonnie]

Wow. Thanks. I think that we can agree to disagree without being terribly disagreeable.

That's what it's all about. Im not so sure we are at opposite ends of every issue though, just some.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The United States must remake the Islamic world or die trying, because they WILL die trying to kill us and end Western civilization. Look at London. These folks want us DEAD PERIOD. Our way of life erased. Our beliefs erased. The United States is the only nation, with our great ally Great Britain, which is willing and able to stop Militant Islam. Their goal is clear: the eradication of Western civilization and it's political beliefs (Democracy), it's economic system (Capitalism), and, of course ultimately, it's religious beliefs (Christianity). The fight in Iraq is vital to this overall struggle. It's a beginning in the region in a country we A. Had an ongoing conflict with that was violating terms of the Gulf War peace accord. B. Had a corrupt vicious murdering dictator as its leader. C. Was centrally placed in the Middle East so as to further our influence in the region. D. Could, if things went according to plan, rework the political systems of the Middle East by introducing democracy and hopefully diswaging the citizens from killing us. Hope I've made myself clear. If you've any questions just ask.

Excellent post TP. Moderates refuse to see the big picture many times. They just look at extremes and calculate the middle, and then feel special about their moderateness, though their approach is paint by numbers and soulless.

 

[ThomasPaine]

Excellent post TP. Moderates refuse to see the big picture many times. They just look at extremes and calculate the middle, and then feel special about their moderateness, though their approach is paint by numbers and soulless.

reasons for the continued effort and eventual total victory in Iraq. Watched Hardball last night and Chrisee had 3 currently serving in Iraq Colonels on the show. These guys expressed their viewpoint that most Iraqi's are good folks, most are cooperating with the US, and they firmly believe this is not only winnable but very much so in the near future. I say, and I was quite surprised by Chrisee's support for the men, Ooooooorah and a heartfelt thanks for their service to this nation.

 

[Bonnie]

mattskramer
Therefore I call myself a moderate. I would have almost flipped a coin in the last presidential election. That is how much of a moderate I am.

If that's the case then what measure do you use to make your decisions such as electing a president?

 

[Annie]

If that's the case then what measure do you use to make your decisions such as electing a president?

he's not a 'moderate.'

 

[rtwngAvngr]

reasons for the continued effort and eventual total victory in Iraq. Watched Hardball last night and Chrisee had 3 currently serving in Iraq Colonels on the show. These guys expressed their viewpoint that most Iraqi's are good folks, most are cooperating with the US, and they firmly believe this is not only winnable but very much so in the near future. I say, and I was quite surprised by Chrisee's support for the men, Ooooooorah and a heartfelt thanks for their service to this nation.

You know all the execs have smacked these news guys around telling them to get with america or the station will go down the toilet. I wonder what chrisee REALLY thought?

 

[Bonnie]

he's not a 'moderate.'

Oh I see........
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSXXXXXX42US' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_3.gif' alt='Very Confused' border=0></a>

 

[mattskramer]

The United States must remake the Islamic world or die trying, because they WILL die trying to kill us and end Western civilization.

Please clarify what you mean by remaking the Islamic world. Be specific.

Look at London. These folks want us DEAD PERIOD. Our way of life erased. Our beliefs erased. The United States is the only nation, with our great ally Great Britain, which is willing and able to stop Militant Islam. Their goal is clear: the eradication of Western civilization and it's political beliefs (Democracy), it's economic system (Capitalism), and, of course ultimately, it's religious beliefs (Christianity).

Small groups of radical militant Muslims are committing terrorist acts. I agree that we should stop them. Western civilizations consists of more religions than Christianity. Islam is practiced in the USA and many Muslims oppose terrorism.

The fight in Iraq is vital to this overall struggle. It's a beginning in the region in a country we A. Had an ongoing conflict with that was violating terms of the Gulf War peace accord.

Wasn't that peace accord via the UN. Wasn't it up to the UN to decide if Iraq was following the terms? Also, hasn't the USA ever disobeyed the UN?

B. Had a corrupt vicious murdering dictator as its leader.

Okay. So if nations have corrupt vicious murdering dictators, then the USA is justified in attacking those nations? China and North Korea better look out!

C. Was centrally placed in the Middle East so as to further our influence in the region.

I don't think that a good way to influence other nations is by attacking its neighbors, unless your goal is to influence them through intimidation. Just look at world opinion of the US after our invasion.

D. Could, if things went according to plan, rework the political systems of the Middle East by introducing democracy and hopefully diswaging the citizens from killing us. Hope I've made myself clear. If you've any questions just ask.

We did not introduce democracy. We practically imposed it. I wonder how the USA will respond if Iraq elects a leader that opposes the USA. I'm not a conspiracy buff but I suspect that the US military will be influencing the election one way or another so that we get pro-USA leaders in power. Anyway, all things considered, the Iraq war was not justified. With what little it accomplished, the cost (in money and reputation) was too great. It further strengthened the notion that the USA is imperialistic and will get what it wants one way or another.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

See. The global culture clash going on right now, though it's as plain as day, is too EXTREME for moderates to even discuss or acknowledge. They look at the world through their little paper towel tube of "politeness" and permissible cocktail banter.

We start to get to the meat and matty bails.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The United States must remake the Islamic world or die trying, because they WILL die trying to kill us and end Western civilization.

Please clarify what you mean by remaking the Islamic world. Be specific.

Look at London. These folks want us DEAD PERIOD. Our way of life erased. Our beliefs erased. The United States is the only nation, with our great ally Great Britain, which is willing and able to stop Militant Islam. Their goal is clear: the eradication of Western civilization and it's political beliefs (Democracy), it's economic system (Capitalism), and, of course ultimately, it's religious beliefs (Christianity).

Small groups of radical militant Muslims are committing terrorist acts. I agree that we should stop them. Western civilizations consists of more religions than Christianity. Islam is practiced in the USA and many Muslims oppose terrorism.

The fight in Iraq is vital to this overall struggle. It's a beginning in the region in a country we A. Had an ongoing conflict with that was violating terms of the Gulf War peace accord.

Wasn't that peace accord via the UN. Wasn't it up to the UN to decide if Iraq was following the terms? Also, hasn't the USA ever disobeyed the UN?

B. Had a corrupt vicious murdering dictator as its leader.

Okay. So if nations have corrupt vicious murdering dictators, then the USA is justified in attacking those nations? China and North Korea better look out!

C. Was centrally placed in the Middle East so as to further our influence in the region.

I don't think that a good way to influence other nations is by attacking its neighbors, unless your goal is to influence them through intimidation. Just look at world opinion of the US after our invasion.

D. Could, if things went according to plan, rework the political systems of the Middle East by introducing democracy and hopefully diswaging the citizens from killing us. Hope I've made myself clear. If you've any questions just ask.

We did not introduce democracy. We practically imposed it. I wonder how the USA will respond if Iraq elects a leader that opposes the USA. I'm not a conspiracy buff but I suspect that the US military will be influencing the election one way or another so that we get pro-USA leaders in power. Anyway, all things considered, the Iraq war was not justified. With what little it accomplished, the cost (in money and reputation) was too great. It further strengthened the notion that the USA is imperialistic and will get what it wants one way or another.

see. he refuses to acknowledge the overall strategic value of the invasion, instead clinging to his hackneyed LIB rationalizations.

 

[mattskramer]

see. he refuses to acknowledge the overall strategic value of the invasion, instead clinging to his hackneyed LIB rationalizations.

No. I don't see that the ends, whenever and if ever they come to be, justify the means.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No. I don't see that the ends, whenever and if ever they come to be, justify the means.

Me either. There WERE connections to terror. Truckloads of material were taken to Syria before the invasion. All the worlds secret services believe he had wmd. There were many resolutions against saddam, the violation of any one of which SHOULD have resulted in his toppling.

Yet you choose to believe leftis propaganda. You're not a moderate, you're a full flame lib. Look at you, bending over backwards with your tortured reasoning to back Saddam. You're sick.

 

[mattskramer]

Me either. There WERE connections to terror. Truckloads of material were taken to Syria before the invasion. All the worlds secret services believe he had wmd. There were many resolutions against saddam, the violation of any one of which SHOULD have resulted in his toppling.

Yet you choose to believe leftis propaganda. You're not a moderate, you're a full flame lib. Look at you, bending over backwards with your tortured reasoning to back Saddam. You're sick.

The truck story was not proven. There was no WMD. There was no direct link. There was no immanent threat. At the end of all this, what we had was a trigger happy president eager for us to muscle our way in for regime change. If I interpret your comments correctly, what you are saying that we were justified in invading Iraq and forcing change because we might be able to persuade surrounding nations to become democratic. Wow! We sure lead by example. Hey Iran, pay attention and become democratic or you could be next.

Note: I think that abortion should be illegal except in cases in which the mother's health is in danger, rape, and incest. I think that the National Education Association and the National Endowment for the Arts should not receive tax support. I think that minimum wage should not be increased. I do think that there should be harsher prison sentences for violent criminals. I think that these are Conservative positions. Just because I don't think that we were justified in going to war in Iraq does not mean that I back Saddam. I won't honor the personal attack with a like reply, but I think that personal attacks against those who post messages are not allowed. Am I correct?

 

[Annie]

The truck story was not proven. There was no WMD.

You don't see the problem here, do you?

 

[mattskramer]

Sigh. Look at the title for this thread. Then notice that I was called "sick". I proved my point. I expected as much. Good night.