LuckyDan
Sublime
So find a nice girl and settle down already. What is the problem?
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So, what are the difference between marriage and civil union. At last count, there are over a thousand. Here are a few:
1.Joint parental rights of children
2.Joint adoption
3.Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4.Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5.Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6.Crime victims recovery benefits
7.Domestic violence protection orders
8.Judicial protections and immunity
9.Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10.Public safety officers death benefits
11.Spousal veterans benefits
12.Social Security
13.Medicare
14.Joint filing of tax returns
15.Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16.Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17.Child support
18.Joint Insurance Plans
19.Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20.Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21.Estate and gift tax benefits
22.Welfare and public assistance
23.Joint housing for elderly
24.Credit protection
25.Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
and those things should be removed from marriageSo, what are the difference between marriage and civil union. At last count, there are over a thousand. Here are a few:
1.Joint parental rights of children
2.Joint adoption
3.Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4.Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5.Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6.Crime victims recovery benefits
7.Domestic violence protection orders
8.Judicial protections and immunity
9.Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10.Public safety officers death benefits
11.Spousal veterans benefits
12.Social Security
13.Medicare
14.Joint filing of tax returns
15.Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16.Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17.Child support
18.Joint Insurance Plans
19.Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20.Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21.Estate and gift tax benefits
22.Welfare and public assistance
23.Joint housing for elderly
24.Credit protection
25.Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
I've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.
As a Christian I can tell you we will never advocate ssm. That is not our idea but God's he states that very clearly in the Bible. Wouldn't we be a hypocrite if we did? Obliviously some of you have no idea what a church does in our communities around the country. We are not perfect never claimed to be. We know we will never be perfect. But we do try to follow the instruction of the Bible as closely as we can that is the whole point.
The secular world likes to label us as to what they think we should be like. You know we think we are perfect yet we do not live up to their standard but we always measure up to God's standard. The difference is we have been saved our debt is settled with God and he the only one we are concerned about impressing.
Like I said God says no to ssm or homosexuality period. Again I say that is not our words but God's. Does this mean we get a right to hate gay people no it does not. We should always treat each other with respect that does not mean we get to disrespect God in that effort.
I do not say that ssm will destroy the traditional marriage. We are saying is God does not approve and we are not to disagree with him. Do u understand what I am telling you?
One more thing I assure you their are many Churches that reach out to the lost the hungry and the homeless. The churches are one of the last refuge that when somebody needs help the church will step out and try and help them I have been apart of that on many occasions. One church cannot help everybody in this world but we try and cover as much as we can.
I agree with you on one thing there are Church's out there that are not houses of worship but like you said money grubbers that is very sad but we are not all like that. God will deal with them I assure you. That will be his timing not ours.
For one, there is no such thing as invisible magical spirit beings.
Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".
The Bible God is very destructive, very into murder and death. According to the Christians, he drowned the entire world. A magical being with so many powers could have simply killed the bad and let the dinosaurs live.
This is a God who told someone to "kill" their only child and then said "Stop, I was just kidding. I only wanted to see if you would actually do it". The very definition of sadism.
Why would anyone expect gays, who are perfectly normal and part of nature, to live by such terrible and arbitrary rules? It's pathetic. If the religious had any sense, they would be ashamed.
SSM is immoral, against God's creation plan, and cannot be condoned by believers.
God is absolute, and no matter what people believe about Him, He is who He is.
The Word of God, the Bible, is powerful enough to eternally save a soul, but man is free enough to say no to it.
Nothing we do can cause God to love us any less, and nothing we can do can cause God to love us any more. However, God's justice and righteousness will not allow for sin to live in His presence. That is why sin will lead to separation from the presence of God forever. The gifts of forgiveness, grace, and mercy are all because of God's love. He not only made those gifts available, He paid for them personally for us. When we reject them, it does not change His love for us, it does result in the possiblility of an eternal personal relationship
with Him.
So, what are the difference between marriage and civil union. At last count, there are over a thousand. Here are a few:
1.Joint parental rights of children
2.Joint adoption
3.Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4.Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5.Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6.Crime victims recovery benefits
7.Domestic violence protection orders
8.Judicial protections and immunity
9.Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10.Public safety officers death benefits
11.Spousal veterans benefits
12.Social Security
13.Medicare
14.Joint filing of tax returns
15.Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16.Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17.Child support
18.Joint Insurance Plans
19.Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20.Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21.Estate and gift tax benefits
22.Welfare and public assistance
23.Joint housing for elderly
24.Credit protection
25.Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
I've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.
So we can count on your support on the next bill to abolish all marriage, yes?People are allowed to spend their lives with whatever consenting adult they choose, and it is no one else's business. Why do you need a piece of paper to make it official all the sudden?
I haven't heard a compelling reason to change the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. Neither have the voters in any venue where it has been put to a vote.
I don't think opponents of it have a thing in the world to explain. It's up to those who want to change the law to make the case.
That's assuming the law was made using logic and reason which as you can see by any number of stupid laws on the books is not the case. So basically it's appeal to tradition.
And although I can't speak for any other state, here in California the Prop 8 side was lying their freaking heads off. "It'll be taught to kids and you can't opt out" "it will lead to hate speech laws" "you're church may be forced to marry gays". If that's the only way the anti gay marraige crowds can win ...
Yes I did say divorce laws were a reason. There's more to "divorce laws" than whether the state is has no-fault divorce. And though I could back up everything I just said, I wont. You don't have any reason to disagree with me, but you're trying save face by saying I'm "kicking and screaming" when I just showed you how you were wrong. You had sense enough to Google and find that site you posted. What don't you agree with and why?
You claimed the stats aren't legit so it is up to you to provide the evidence. It's that simple.
I didn't say your stats aren't legit. Your ARGUMENT isn't legit. You can't just pay attention to the two things you like and then act like you have the debate sown up. There's more to the social and economic institution of marriage and divorce than mere statistics.
We are all familiar with the claim SSM should not be allowed because it is immoral and will send an atomic wedgie up the nuclear family's fanny. Thus the strongest claim against SSM is for preservation of our Republic. On the question of its moral value: It does not matter. It truly does not. I think it's immoral for Christian churches, who operate tax free, to erect structures in the name of Christ, preach about the Love of God and the call to Sacrifice, then lock the doors to keep the homeless out. Does my indignation based on my moral compass justify robbing those Churches of their rights? No. The Constitution guarantees them the Right to gloriously display their hypocrisy on a regular basis. (this does not apply to all Christian churches, but the majority of US churches are guilty of following Caesar instead of Christ.) The cry of a moral crime without the justification of intrusion is a selfish microphone indeed.
Massachusetts has often been the iconic ridicule of radio pundits and Christian religious groups who claim it is a great example of the product of immorality, and especially in the Same Sex M debate. This demonstrates the fundamental cognitive dissonance of mob mentality. Here is why: MA has long been a leader in respecting and protecting the sanctity of Marriage. We are approaching a 20 year celebration of having the lowest divorce rates of any State in the entire nation:
"Massachusetts and Connecticut rank first and second, respectively, for having the lowest divorce rates in the nation, according to new 1994 divorce data from the National Center for Health Statistics."
STATE-BY-STATE DIVORCE RATES
That was a time when SSM was being lobbied here. Let's jump a decade and see those numbers:
"The District of Columbia had the lowest reported divorce rate, at 1.7, followed by Massachusetts at 2.2 and Pennsylvania at 2.5."
Divorce Statistics, Marriage Statistics: Divorce Rates in America, Marriage
It was around that time the Constitution chalked up another victory of being a more honest National manifesto. The anti-SSM crowds were ballistic with predictions. Five years later:
Provisional 2008 data from the CDC's National Vital Statistics Report show that after over four years of legal same-sex marriage, the divorce rate in Massachusetts has actually dropped, from 2.3 per thousand residents in 2007 to about 2.0 per thousand in 2008, the lowest rate in the nationand one that hasnt been seen since the 1940's.
Low Massachusetts divorce rate another defeat for same-sex marriage opponents
Wow. If that is the type of destruction gays bring to the sanctity of marriage and society I am scared as hell to find out what good it could possibly accomplish.
Iam not citing the data in a claim of causation and saying SSM made divorce rates go down. I am citing it to show the argument of causation put forth by anti-SSM crowds that Same Sex Marriage causes enough harm on society to justify burning portions of the Constitution is simply too damn gay to be true.
and those things should be removed from marriageSo, what are the difference between marriage and civil union. At last count, there are over a thousand. Here are a few:
1.Joint parental rights of children
2.Joint adoption
3.Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4.Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5.Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6.Crime victims recovery benefits
7.Domestic violence protection orders
8.Judicial protections and immunity
9.Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10.Public safety officers death benefits
11.Spousal veterans benefits
12.Social Security
13.Medicare
14.Joint filing of tax returns
15.Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16.Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17.Child support
18.Joint Insurance Plans
19.Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20.Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21.Estate and gift tax benefits
22.Welfare and public assistance
23.Joint housing for elderly
24.Credit protection
25.Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
I've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.
marriage is a religious ceremony and the government should get out of it
if you want those laws, then get a civil union contract
As a Christian I can tell you we will never advocate ssm. That is not our idea but God's he states that very clearly in the Bible. Wouldn't we be a hypocrite if we did? Obliviously some of you have no idea what a church does in our communities around the country. We are not perfect never claimed to be. We know we will never be perfect. But we do try to follow the instruction of the Bible as closely as we can that is the whole point.
The secular world likes to label us as to what they think we should be like. You know we think we are perfect yet we do not live up to their standard but we always measure up to God's standard. The difference is we have been saved our debt is settled with God and he the only one we are concerned about impressing.
Like I said God says no to ssm or homosexuality period. Again I say that is not our words but God's. Does this mean we get a right to hate gay people no it does not. We should always treat each other with respect that does not mean we get to disrespect God in that effort.
I do not say that ssm will destroy the traditional marriage. We are saying is God does not approve and we are not to disagree with him. Do u understand what I am telling you?
One more thing I assure you their are many Churches that reach out to the lost the hungry and the homeless. The churches are one of the last refuge that when somebody needs help the church will step out and try and help them I have been apart of that on many occasions. One church cannot help everybody in this world but we try and cover as much as we can.
I agree with you on one thing there are Church's out there that are not houses of worship but like you said money grubbers that is very sad but we are not all like that. God will deal with them I assure you. That will be his timing not ours.
For one, there is no such thing as invisible magical spirit beings.
Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".
The Bible God is very destructive, very into murder and death. According to the Christians, he drowned the entire world. A magical being with so many powers could have simply killed the bad and let the dinosaurs live.
This is a God who told someone to "kill" their only child and then said "Stop, I was just kidding. I only wanted to see if you would actually do it". The very definition of sadism.
Why would anyone expect gays, who are perfectly normal and part of nature, to live by such terrible and arbitrary rules? It's pathetic. If the religious had any sense, they would be ashamed.
SSM is immoral, against God's creation plan, and cannot be condoned by believers.
God is absolute, and no matter what people believe about Him, He is who He is.
The Word of God, the Bible, is powerful enough to eternally save a soul, but man is free enough to say no to it.
Nothing we do can cause God to love us any less, and nothing we can do can cause God to love us any more. However, God's justice and righteousness will not allow for sin to live in His presence. That is why sin will lead to separation from the presence of God forever. The gifts of forgiveness, grace, and mercy are all because of God's love. He not only made those gifts available, He paid for them personally for us. When we reject them, it does not change His love for us, it does result in the possiblility of an eternal personal relationship
with Him.
I don't think the threat this issue may cause is the destruction of the family...but what it does is cause a slippery-slope condition where eventually anyone can marry anyone or anything.
That is the primary reason for those who are against SSM to fight it.
Course you ask any SSM advocate that question they always say....no way. That isn't possible.
What gall they have!!! Who are they to say that Michael Jackson couldn't marry Macaully Culkin if he had wanted to.
and those things should be removed from marriageI've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.
marriage is a religious ceremony and the government should get out of it
if you want those laws, then get a civil union contract
Wow. Any subject you talk about shows you don't know much of anything. Marriage is not a religious ceremony dumbass. There are a lot of atheist couples who are a testament to that fact.
and those things should be removed from marriage
marriage is a religious ceremony and the government should get out of it
if you want those laws, then get a civil union contract
Wow. Any subject you talk about shows you don't know much of anything. Marriage is not a religious ceremony dumbass. There are a lot of atheist couples who are a testament to that fact.
Going off on a tangent again???
I think he meant that marriage should be a religious ceremony.....and that he wants the state to stay out of it....however what it has become is a legal contract that the state levies fees on. The meaning is almost lost.
However who am I to say that SSM couples shouldn't be afforded the same pain and suffering and legal hardship that heteros suffer from.
Wow. Any subject you talk about shows you don't know much of anything. Marriage is not a religious ceremony dumbass. There are a lot of atheist couples who are a testament to that fact.
Going off on a tangent again???
I think he meant that marriage should be a religious ceremony.....and that he wants the state to stay out of it....however what it has become is a legal contract that the state levies fees on. The meaning is almost lost.
However who am I to say that SSM couples shouldn't be afforded the same pain and suffering and legal hardship that heteros suffer from.
Marriage is not a religious ceremony and it never has been endemic to any church.
We are all familiar with the claim SSM should not be allowed because it is immoral and will send an atomic wedgie up the nuclear family's fanny. Thus the strongest claim against SSM is for preservation of our Republic. On the question of its moral value: It does not matter. It truly does not. I think it's immoral for Christian churches, who operate tax free, to erect structures in the name of Christ, preach about the Love of God and the call to Sacrifice, then lock the doors to keep the homeless out. Does my indignation based on my moral compass justify robbing those Churches of their rights? No. The Constitution guarantees them the Right to gloriously display their hypocrisy on a regular basis. (this does not apply to all Christian churches, but the majority of US churches are guilty of following Caesar instead of Christ.) The cry of a moral crime without the justification of intrusion is a selfish microphone indeed.
Massachusetts has often been the iconic ridicule of radio pundits and Christian religious groups who claim it is a great example of the product of immorality, and especially in the Same Sex M debate. This demonstrates the fundamental cognitive dissonance of mob mentality. Here is why: MA has long been a leader in respecting and protecting the sanctity of Marriage. We are approaching a 20 year celebration of having the lowest divorce rates of any State in the entire nation:
"Massachusetts and Connecticut rank first and second, respectively, for having the lowest divorce rates in the nation, according to new 1994 divorce data from the National Center for Health Statistics."
STATE-BY-STATE DIVORCE RATES
That was a time when SSM was being lobbied here. Let's jump a decade and see those numbers:
"The District of Columbia had the lowest reported divorce rate, at 1.7, followed by Massachusetts at 2.2 and Pennsylvania at 2.5."
Divorce Statistics, Marriage Statistics: Divorce Rates in America, Marriage
It was around that time the Constitution chalked up another victory of being a more honest National manifesto. The anti-SSM crowds were ballistic with predictions. Five years later:
Provisional 2008 data from the CDC's National Vital Statistics Report show that after over four years of legal same-sex marriage, the divorce rate in Massachusetts has actually dropped, from 2.3 per thousand residents in 2007 to about 2.0 per thousand in 2008, the lowest rate in the nation—and one that hasn’t been seen since the 1940's.
Low Massachusetts divorce rate another defeat for same-sex marriage opponents
Wow. If that is the type of destruction gays bring to the sanctity of marriage and society I am scared as hell to find out what good it could possibly accomplish.
Iam not citing the data in a claim of causation and saying SSM made divorce rates go down. I am citing it to show the argument of causation put forth by anti-SSM crowds that Same Sex Marriage causes enough harm on society to justify burning portions of the Constitution is simply too damn gay to be true.
I don't think the threat this issue may cause is the destruction of the family...but what it does is cause a slippery-slope condition where eventually anyone can marry anyone or anything.
That is the primary reason for those who are against SSM to fight it.
Course you ask any SSM advocate that question they always say....no way. That isn't possible.
What gall they have!!! Who are they to say that Michael Jackson couldn't marry Macaully Culkin if he had wanted to.
We are all familiar with the claim SSM should not be allowed because it is immoral and will send an atomic wedgie up the nuclear family's fanny. Thus the strongest claim against SSM is for preservation of our Republic. On the question of its moral value: It does not matter. It truly does not. I think it's immoral for Christian churches, who operate tax free, to erect structures in the name of Christ, preach about the Love of God and the call to Sacrifice, then lock the doors to keep the homeless out. Does my indignation based on my moral compass justify robbing those Churches of their rights? No. The Constitution guarantees them the Right to gloriously display their hypocrisy on a regular basis. (this does not apply to all Christian churches, but the majority of US churches are guilty of following Caesar instead of Christ.) The cry of a moral crime without the justification of intrusion is a selfish microphone indeed.
Massachusetts has often been the iconic ridicule of radio pundits and Christian religious groups who claim it is a great example of the product of immorality, and especially in the Same Sex M debate. This demonstrates the fundamental cognitive dissonance of mob mentality. Here is why: MA has long been a leader in respecting and protecting the sanctity of Marriage. We are approaching a 20 year celebration of having the lowest divorce rates of any State in the entire nation:
"Massachusetts and Connecticut rank first and second, respectively, for having the lowest divorce rates in the nation, according to new 1994 divorce data from the National Center for Health Statistics."
STATE-BY-STATE DIVORCE RATES
That was a time when SSM was being lobbied here. Let's jump a decade and see those numbers:
"The District of Columbia had the lowest reported divorce rate, at 1.7, followed by Massachusetts at 2.2 and Pennsylvania at 2.5."
Divorce Statistics, Marriage Statistics: Divorce Rates in America, Marriage
It was around that time the Constitution chalked up another victory of being a more honest National manifesto. The anti-SSM crowds were ballistic with predictions. Five years later:
Provisional 2008 data from the CDC's National Vital Statistics Report show that after over four years of legal same-sex marriage, the divorce rate in Massachusetts has actually dropped, from 2.3 per thousand residents in 2007 to about 2.0 per thousand in 2008, the lowest rate in the nation—and one that hasn’t been seen since the 1940's.
Low Massachusetts divorce rate another defeat for same-sex marriage opponents
Wow. If that is the type of destruction gays bring to the sanctity of marriage and society I am scared as hell to find out what good it could possibly accomplish.
Iam not citing the data in a claim of causation and saying SSM made divorce rates go down. I am citing it to show the argument of causation put forth by anti-SSM crowds that Same Sex Marriage causes enough harm on society to justify burning portions of the Constitution is simply too damn gay to be true.
I don't think the threat this issue may cause is the destruction of the family...but what it does is cause a slippery-slope condition where eventually anyone can marry anyone or anything.
That is the primary reason for those who are against SSM to fight it.
Course you ask any SSM advocate that question they always say....no way. That isn't possible.
What gall they have!!! Who are they to say that Michael Jackson couldn't marry Macaully Culkin if he had wanted to.
"One of the downsides to redefining marriage to include same-sex couples would be the weakening of the meaning of marriage, which would cause more divorces."
Catholic Answers Special Report: Gay Marriage
Going off on a tangent again???
I think he meant that marriage should be a religious ceremony.....and that he wants the state to stay out of it....however what it has become is a legal contract that the state levies fees on. The meaning is almost lost.
However who am I to say that SSM couples shouldn't be afforded the same pain and suffering and legal hardship that heteros suffer from.
Marriage is not a religious ceremony and it never has been endemic to any church.
Whatever..........
Wow. Any subject you talk about shows you don't know much of anything. Marriage is not a religious ceremony dumbass. There are a lot of atheist couples who are a testament to that fact.
Going off on a tangent again???
I think he meant that marriage should be a religious ceremony.....and that he wants the state to stay out of it....however what it has become is a legal contract that the state levies fees on. The meaning is almost lost.
However who am I to say that SSM couples shouldn't be afforded the same pain and suffering and legal hardship that heteros suffer from.
Marriage is not a religious ceremony and it never has been endemic to any church.
So, what are the difference between marriage and civil union. At last count, there are over a thousand. Here are a few:
1.Joint parental rights of children
2.Joint adoption
3.Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4.Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5.Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6.Crime victims recovery benefits
7.Domestic violence protection orders
8.Judicial protections and immunity
9.Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10.Public safety officers death benefits
11.Spousal veterans benefits
12.Social Security
13.Medicare
14.Joint filing of tax returns
15.Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16.Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17.Child support
18.Joint Insurance Plans
19.Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20.Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21.Estate and gift tax benefits
22.Welfare and public assistance
23.Joint housing for elderly
24.Credit protection
25.Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
I've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.
Gay couples can adopt and/or get sperm/egg donation.