Cains 9-9-9 Plan: 5 Reasons to reject it

[Liability]

If the guy that owns the restaurant is charging you (not counting any tip) say $100.00 for a fine meal with your date/spouse, what portion of that do you guys imagine constitutes the increased cost of every bit of that service caused by taxation? His building? Taxed? The wages he pays his employees? Taxed. The electricity he buys? Taxed. The other fuel? Taxed? The food itself, purchased wholesale? Taxed.

You are paying for that meal and a lot of the cost to you is to cover all the otehr assorted taxes that guy had to shell out.

But if you have a consumption tax, those amounts can be pretty well accounted for in advance, and the time spent on calculating taxes, and filling out forms, etc., etc., etc., will NO LONGER be included since such things no longer have to exist.

It might just be that if we went that route, the net cost to consumers would go down.

 

[oreo]

Cain wants to apply his sales tax to real estate transactions?

Oh for fuck's sake...

The "beauty" of Cain's plan is that it affects everything. Food. Rent on your apartment. Tuition. Think of something you would spend money on, and it'll be taxed.

Except...capital gains. Wonder who that benefits the most.

Capital gains would be taxed at 9% too.

 

[8537]

If the guy that owns the restaurant is charging you (not counting any tip) say $100.00 for a fine meal with your date/spouse, what portion of that do you guys imagine constitutes the increased cost of every bit of that service caused by taxation? His building? Taxed? The wages he pays his employees? Taxed. The electricity he buys? Taxed. The other fuel? Taxed? The food itself, purchased wholesale? Taxed.

You are paying for that meal and a lot of the cost to you is to cover all the otehr assorted taxes that guy had to shell out.

But if you have a consumption tax, those amounts can be pretty well accounted for in advance, and the time spent on calculating taxes, and filling out forms, etc., etc., etc., will NO LONGER be included since such things no longer have to exist.

It might just be that if we went that route, the net cost to consumers would go down.

His 9-9-9 plan replaces the state and local property taxes, state unemployment insurance fund taxes, local and state sales taxes, state fuel taxes...Oh, he doesn't pay tax on food by the way. But anyway...

 

[rightwinger]

The "beauty" of Cain's plan is that it affects everything. Food. Rent on your apartment. Tuition. Think of something you would spend money on, and it'll be taxed.

Except...capital gains. Wonder who that benefits the most.

Capital gains would be taxed at 9% too.

Can you show where Cain said that?

 

[RDD_1210]

The "beauty" of Cain's plan is that it affects everything. Food. Rent on your apartment. Tuition. Think of something you would spend money on, and it'll be taxed.

Except...capital gains. Wonder who that benefits the most.

Capital gains would be taxed at 9% too.

No they wouldn't.

Feel free to post some that makes you think otherwise. But every article I've seen about this plan states that capital gains would NOT be taxed.

 

[Liability]

If the guy that owns the restaurant is charging you (not counting any tip) say $100.00 for a fine meal with your date/spouse, what portion of that do you guys imagine constitutes the increased cost of every bit of that service caused by taxation? His building? Taxed? The wages he pays his employees? Taxed. The electricity he buys? Taxed. The other fuel? Taxed? The food itself, purchased wholesale? Taxed.

You are paying for that meal and a lot of the cost to you is to cover all the otehr assorted taxes that guy had to shell out.

But if you have a consumption tax, those amounts can be pretty well accounted for in advance, and the time spent on calculating taxes, and filling out forms, etc., etc., etc., will NO LONGER be included since such things no longer have to exist.

It might just be that if we went that route, the net cost to consumers would go down.

His 9-9-9 plan replaces the state and local property taxes, state unemployment insurance fund taxes, local and state sales taxes, state fuel taxes...Oh, he doesn't pay tax on food by the way. But anyway...

As currently proposed (which is beside the point, I have been assured since it can never get passed, they say), the plan might not include taxing food. Good. It shouldn't. But I'm not sure that applies to wholesale food distribution. Soemthing tells me food wholesalers pay taxes.

And beside that, I'm not sure how you imagine you just made a point. Or, perhaps, I just missed your point.

Personally, if the 9-9-9 plan were to replace state and local property taxes, etc., that's just another reason to EMBRACE the plan.

IF you wish to be heard to argue that there are components of the plan that you deem faulty or dangerous or whatever, that's fair fodder for debate.

But the fact that it might be imperfect is hardly a good argument against it (overall) when what it seeks to replace is absolutely horrendous. We HAVE to be able to do better than this shitty Income tax monstrosity.

Let's be innovative. Let's bust a move. L:et's ditch the income tax and the IRS and take an entirely different route. Let's throw up Constitutional level barriers so that future tinkering will not bite us in the ass, but let's get started on dumping the IRS and the income tax ASAP.

 

[Liability]

Except...capital gains. Wonder who that benefits the most.

Capital gains would be taxed at 9% too.

No they wouldn't.

Feel free to post some that makes you think otherwise. But every article I've seen about this plan states that capital gains would NOT be taxed.

Going to the SOURCE, the plan as described on the Cain website answers the question:

Phase 1 - 9-9-9

Current circumstances call for bolder action.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two.
I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters.
Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%.
It ends the Payroll Tax completely – a permanent holiday!
Zero capital gains tax
Ends the Death Tax.
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Business Flat Tax – 9%
Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.
Individual Flat Tax – 9%.
Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
National Sales Tax – 9%.
This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.

999 | Herman Cain for President {my emphasis added.}

 

[8537]

If the guy that owns the restaurant is charging you (not counting any tip) say $100.00 for a fine meal with your date/spouse, what portion of that do you guys imagine constitutes the increased cost of every bit of that service caused by taxation? His building? Taxed? The wages he pays his employees? Taxed. The electricity he buys? Taxed. The other fuel? Taxed? The food itself, purchased wholesale? Taxed.

You are paying for that meal and a lot of the cost to you is to cover all the otehr assorted taxes that guy had to shell out.

But if you have a consumption tax, those amounts can be pretty well accounted for in advance, and the time spent on calculating taxes, and filling out forms, etc., etc., etc., will NO LONGER be included since such things no longer have to exist.

It might just be that if we went that route, the net cost to consumers would go down.

His 9-9-9 plan replaces the state and local property taxes, state unemployment insurance fund taxes, local and state sales taxes, state fuel taxes...Oh, he doesn't pay tax on food by the way. But anyway...

As currently proposed (which is beside the point, I have been assured since it can never get passed, they say), the plan might not include taxing food. Good. It shouldn't. But I'm not sure that applies to wholesale food distribution. Soemthing tells me food wholesalers pay taxes.

Wholesale level sales don't pay sales tax.

And beside that, I'm not sure how you imagine you just made a point. Or, perhaps, I just missed your point.

You said that costs such as property taxes could be "accounted for in advance" under Cain's plan. I'm trying to figure out how a 9% national sales tax would allow one to "account in advance" for local sales taxes, property taxes etc....

That's the point.

Let's be innovative. Let's bust a move. L:et's ditch the income tax and the IRS and take an entirely different route. Let's throw up Constitutional level barriers so that future tinkering will not bite us in the ass, but let's get started on dumping the IRS and the income tax ASAP.

But this plan doesn't ditch the income tax - it simply adds a sales tax. It's not bold or innovative, it's just catchy.

And you can not create a rule that says 2/3 of the House is required to increase taxes and expect it to be binding on future sessions.

 

[RDD_1210]

From Cain's own website.

"Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits"

http://www.hermancain.com/images/economicgrowth.pdf

So like I said. This plan is ONLY good for the rich and hurts the poor and middle class.

 

[Liability]

From Cain's own website.

"Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits"

http://www.hermancain.com/images/economicgrowth.pdf

So like I said. This plan is ONLY good for the rich and hurts the poor and middle class.

It's AS you said. And you were and are wrong.

The plan would benefit everyone here.

 

[Article 15]

Cain's 999 plan is ultra retarded.

Massive tax cuts for the wealthy and a tax hike for low income earners.

No wonder the USMB right wing lunatics love it so much.

 

[Liability]

His 9-9-9 plan replaces the state and local property taxes, state unemployment insurance fund taxes, local and state sales taxes, state fuel taxes...Oh, he doesn't pay tax on food by the way. But anyway...

As currently proposed (which is beside the point, I have been assured since it can never get passed, they say), the plan might not include taxing food. Good. It shouldn't. But I'm not sure that applies to wholesale food distribution. Something tells me food wholesalers pay taxes.

Wholesale level sales don't pay sales tax.

And beside that, I'm not sure how you imagine you just made a point. Or, perhaps, I just missed your point.

You said that costs such as property taxes could be "accounted for in advance" under Cain's plan. I'm trying to figure out how a 9% national sales tax would allow one to "account in advance" for local sales taxes, property taxes etc....

That's the point.

Let's be innovative. Let's bust a move. L:et's ditch the income tax and the IRS and take an entirely different route. Let's throw up Constitutional level barriers so that future tinkering will not bite us in the ass, but let's get started on dumping the IRS and the income tax ASAP.

But this plan doesn't ditch the income tax - it simply adds a sales tax. It's not bold or innovative, it's just catchy.

And you can not create a rule that says 2/3 of the House is required to increase taxes and expect it to be binding on future sessions.

I am not prepared at this point to quibble over each of your points, but I will address your last comment.

I had not said, suggested or implied that any law could be passed that would require a supermajority to approve tax increases.

I DID suggest a CONSTITUTIONAL level barrier.

I agree with you to the extent that you seem to be saying that the dead hand of a past Congress cannot restrain the actions of a future Congress.

But a CONSTITUTIONAL barrier very well could.

 

[RDD_1210]

From Cain's own website.

"Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits"

http://www.hermancain.com/images/economicgrowth.pdf

So like I said. This plan is ONLY good for the rich and hurts the poor and middle class.

It's AS you said. And you were and are wrong.

The plan would benefit everyone here.

LOL, the plan would hurt the poor and middle class and help the rich. I was right about there being no tax on capital gains which GREATLY benefits the wealthy and I'm right that when you tax struggling people 18% more than they are being taxed now that in no way helps them.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

and this is a bad thing.....?


i don't like the 999 plan because it has both an income tax AND a national sales tax.....they need to have one or the other but not both....

 

[Avorysuds]

Cain is done, by that I mean he will start slowly decending in the polls.

 

[Avorysuds]

Cain's 999 plan is ultra retarded.

Massive tax cuts for the wealthy and a tax hike for low income earners.

No wonder the USMB right wing lunatics love it so much.

A lot of the "rightwingers" here don't love it I have noticed. Most are just happy Cain bumped Mitt and Perry out of the way.

 

[Avorysuds]

I am starting to think that the only reason Cain is running is to help sell books, he want's to be the next Palin after the election.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

 

[Old Rocks]

As a middle class blue collar earner on the verge of retirement, that plan would hurt me both now and after retirement. It is a non-starter. Just another plan for redistributing the nations wealth from the working poor and the middle class to the very wealthy.

 

[Old Rocks]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

And you will never have kissed the asses of the very wealthy enough to make you happy. Another person with that certain 'air' about them.