Bush is just a beebee in a WAR he doesn't understand

[jimnyc]

The mistake the administration made was thinking in terms of "The Iraqi People". There is no "The Iraqi People" and they were not going to greet us unanimously as liberators. It's a bunch of little factions that will never get along. Like it or not it is a fact that dictatorships are good at keeping a lid on these things. Look at Yugoslavia.

Next time the government should try to understand who they are dealing with before they act.

Now this I will agree with. I think the Iraqi resistance was underestimated. It sort of reminds me of a game I played a while back. You were shooting missiles into a city filled with terrorists. As you killed them, their families or friends walking around would then turn from citizens into terrorists. No matter how many you killed they just kept multiplying. The game couldn't be won no matter how many of them you killed.

Disagree with me if you like but this is one of the reasons I'm all for more devastating firepower. Toying with these insurgents and feeding into the media and the rest of the world is only putting our troops into danger. These scumbags need to be shown in the worst way possible what will happen if they continue in this manner, and I could care less if this ultimately kills more Iraqi's. That is their plan, to last as long as humanly possible and keep us there in the hopes of tiring the troops. Same with OBL in the Paki mountains, just drop some sort of nuke and make the mountains disappear!

Oh well, maybe I had too much coffee this morn!

 

[jimnyc]

Please indulge me just a little further, jimnyc.

Your personal participation in this particular discussion is for lack of a better word, unusual. Are you being pressured by a few whining and crying moderators and otherwise wannabe participants in the American political process?

No sir, just a little pumped up this morn on caffeine! I'll disappear into my cave once again when it wears off.

Constantly, the opionators demand links to questions that are answered 24 hours a day on the news channels and in the papers. Considering that ALL the news channels and virtually ALL the credible newspapers are owned outright by supporters of the administration, even then they (the news channels and papers) question the wisdom of this WAR that at least most of us have come to be ashamed of. I was ashamed even during the discussion before the war. I was in Iraq. I fully understood the fallacies and downright bullshit as produced by the hawks.

Ok, and your entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, especially of someone who knows what is going on first hand. But, with that said, I am not ashamed in the slightest bit. As our Country leads the world on a crusade against evil, I've never stood prouder as an American before.

You do what you have to do, jimnyc. If being American is danger to participation on this board, then I think your nomenclature at least audacious. Don't you agree?


Psychoblues

Being an American is certainly no danger, and least of all on this particular board. I've respected your opinions and have responded politely, why are you poking me with the proverbial stick?

We apparently just disagree as to whether the current administration is full of liars as some would have us believe. I think the dems and repubs alike both have some bad apples but I choose not to sit here and dwell on the past but to look towards the future. I don't believe for a split second that this war was brought on because of lies as then I would have to believe that many other countries in this world and hundreds if not thousands in our own government have executed possibly the biggest conspiracy ever.

 

[Psychoblues]

All of those countries backed out of the WAR in IRAQ excepting Great Britian. Even Tony Blair is now reconsidering. The quagmire that exists is a quagmire that was created at the hands of Americans. No winning this one, jimnyc. NO other country possessed the intelligence that the Americans, US, possessed. And that's a good thing. But we squandered a bunch of trust on our own, don't you think?

I can't forget the pubs pointing fingers and yelling bloody murder when WJC sent some cruise missles into Afghanistan in the 90's in target of "terrorist" camps and Bin Laden in particular. Some just have a short memory, I guess.

Like I said, Even I do not have a problem with any legitimate "War On Terror". I do have a problem with 2,300 American soldiers dying in Iraq for a War that didn't need to be.

Psychoblues

Yes, I do, you have repeated all the rhetoric that has been debated to death. No proof of course, so it leaves it to us to make up our own minds about what transpired and what was believed.

I do wonder though, why no one jumps on all the other countries that had the same intelligence. Is it because we were the only only one with the balls to put an end to Saddam's charade? And why the Dems are rarely, if ever, included in the same sentence as they are as much responsible for us going into Iraq as the republicans. It's funny how when times get rough the dems are more interested in pointing fingers and declaring failures than seeking a better way to fix the situation in Iraq or make the world a better place.

 

[Nuc]

Disagree with me if you like but this is one of the reasons I'm all for more devastating firepower. Toying with these insurgents and feeding into the media and the rest of the world is only putting our troops into danger. These scumbags need to be shown in the worst way possible what will happen if they continue in this manner, and I could care less if this ultimately kills more Iraqi's. That is their plan, to last as long as humanly possible and keep us there in the hopes of tiring the troops. Same with OBL in the Paki mountains, just drop some sort of nuke and make the mountains disappear!

Oh well, maybe I had too much coffee this morn!

I am drinking coffee right now, maybe I should watch out!

Even if you are right about using more force, and you may be, it is unfortunate that we had to come to this realization as the result of miscalculating in the first place.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, I think you are being somewhat facetious, but of course lots of innocent lives are lost this way and it wouldn't be too polite to Musharref.

 

[Psychoblues]

jimnyc, I really dig the jamm. But I gotta be at work in a few hours and I need some crash. Can you dig it?

Later alligator.


Psychoblues

 

[insein]

jimnyc, just so you know. #1. There were and are no WMD's as advertised by the GWB administration in Iraq. #2. Saddam Hussein was never connected with Osama Bin Laden in any capacity, much less one that might lead America into a legitimate WAR. #3. There was never any arrangement with Niger to export enriched uranium or even "yellow cake" or any other nuclear material into Iraq. #4. Valerie Plame "was" certainly a covert agent of the CIA. #5. We were not welcomed into Iraq by any credible representatives of the Iraqi people. #6. Neither the Iraqi peoples or the citizens of America are "safer" now than before the American invasion. #7. The capture of Saddam Hussein has not lessened the intensity of WAR but I suggest has intensified it.

I could go on and on. But, do you get my drift?


Psychoblues

Proof? Of course not. You are good at telling everyone what you think is a lie but never back it up with evidence. Perhaps you don't watch the news. From Saddam's documents that were released last week.

#1. WMD's How many times do we have to do this dance?

US officials removed 2 tons of nuclear materials from IRaq that was "Weapon's grade." Perhaps you don't understand what "Weapon's grade nucelar materials" are? They are used to make bombs. BIG bombs. Refer to Iran for an example of what "Weapon's Grade Nuclear Materials" can become.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/07/iraq.nuclear/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124924,00.html

As for the rest.
http://www.thevanguard.org/thevanguard/columns/040618.shtml?ID=13323
Smuggled out of Iraq and its been confirmed by the glorious mother of all liberal ORganizations, the UN.

Late last week, the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) briefed the Security Council on Saddam's lightning-fast dismantling of missile and WMD sites before and during the war. UNMOVIC executive chairman Demetrius Perricos detailed not only the export of thousands of tons of missile components, nuclear reactor vessels and fermenters for chemical and biological warheads, but also the discovery of many (but not most) of these items - with UN inspection tags still on them -- as far afield as Jordan, Turkey and even Holland.

But to further implement your idiocy and simplemindedness, here's a report from recent headlines.
http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

http://www.nysun.com/article/24480

Saddam Hussein moved his chemical weapons to Syria six weeks before the war started, Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom says.

The assertion comes as President Bush said yesterday that much of the intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was incorrect.

The Israeli officer, Lieutenant General Moshe Yaalon, asserted that Saddam spirited his chemical weapons out of the country on the eve of the war. "He transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria," General Yaalon told The New York Sun over dinner in New York on Tuesday night. "No one went to Syria to find it."

Now if you can read at even a 3rd grade level, which sometimes i wonder, you can see that the WMD's do exist, they have just been moved as many asserted before the war even began.

Moving onto #2

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/011/990ieqmb.asp?pg=1
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=403139&postcount=6

The final document provided to The Weekly Standard is a translation of a memo from the "Republican Command, Intelligence Division," dated September 15, 2001. It is addressed to "Mr. M.A.M.5."

Our Afghani source number 11002 (his biographic information in attachment #1) has provided us information that the Afghani consul Ahmed Dahestani (his biographic information attachment #2) has talked in front of him about the following:
1. That Osama bin Laden and the Taliban group in Afghanistan are in communication with Iraq and that previously a group of Taliban and Osama bin Laden have visited Iraq.
2. That America has evidence that the Iraqi government and the group of Osama bin Laden have cooperated to attack targets inside America.
3. In the event that it has been proven that the group of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban planning such operations, it is possible that America will attack Iraq and Afghanistan.
4. That the Afghani consul heard of the relation between Iraq and the group of Osama bin Laden while he was in Iran.
5. In the light of what has been presented, we suggest to write to the committee of information.

This document is speculative in parts, and the information it contains is third-hand at best. Its value depends on the credibility of "source number 11002" and of Ahmed Dahestani and of the sources Dahestani relied on, all of which are unknown.

We are left, then, with three small pieces to add to a large and elaborate puzzle. We will never have a complete picture of the Iraqi regime's support for global terrorism, but the coming release of a flood of captured documents should get us closer.

A new and highly illuminating article in Foreign Affairs draws on hundreds of Iraqi documents to provide a look at the Iraq war from the Iraqi perspective. The picture that emerges is that of an Iraqi regime built on a foundation of paranoia and lies and eager to attack its perceived enemies, internal and external. This paragraph is notable:

The Saddam Fedayeen also took part in the regime's domestic terrorism operations and planned for attacks throughout Europe and the Middle East. In a document dated May 1999, Saddam's older son, Uday, ordered preparations for "special operations, assassinations, and bombings, for the centers and traitor symbols in London, Iran and the self-ruled areas [Kurdistan]." Preparations for "Blessed July," a regime-directed wave of "martyrdom" operations against targets in the West, were well under way at the time of the coalition invasion.

Terror camps operating within Iraq before the war began. From the member of the Vast Right wing conspiracy, the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,779359,00.html

Al-Qaida running new terror camp, say Kurds

Michael Howard in Halabjah, Iraqi Kurdistan and Julian Borger in Washington
Friday August 23, 2002
The Guardian


A radical armed Islamist group with ties to Tehran and Baghdad has helped al-Qaida establish an international terrorist training camp in northern Iraq, Kurdish officials say.
Intelligence officers in the autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq told the Guardian that the Ansar al-Islam (supporters of Islam) group is harbouring up to 150 al-Qaida members in a string of villages it controls along the Iraq-Iran border.

And once again, the list you've NOT read everytime ive posted it as evidenced by your repeating of all the same bullshit over and over, Al Queda's ties to Iraq.
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=092503F

Those who try to whitewash Saddams record dont dispute this evidence; they just ignore it. So lets review the evidence, all of it on the public record for months or years:

* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddams hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.

* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddams mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.

* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.

* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.

* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddams men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraqs mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.

* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Janes Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Janes reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaedas No. 2 man.

(Why are all of those meetings significant? The London Observer reports that FBI investigators cite a captured al Qaeda field manual in Afghanistan, which "emphasizes the value of conducting discussions about pending terrorist attacks face to face, rather than by electronic means.")

* As recently as 2001, Iraqs embassy in Pakistan was used as a "liaison" between the Iraqi dictator and al Qaeda, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan -- who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks -- that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre," Londons Independent reports.

* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told Gwynne Roberts of the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Ladens fighters in camps in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddams Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad. At that vast compound run by Iraqi intelligence, Muslim militants trained to hijack planes with knives -- on a full-size Boeing 707. Col. Mohammed recalls his first visit to Salman Pak this way: "We were met by Colonel Jamil Kamil, the camp manager, and Major Ali Hawas. I noticed that a lot of people were queuing for food. (The major) said to me: Youll have nothing to do with these people. They are Osama bin Ladens group and the PKK and Mojahedin-e Khalq."

* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddams son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.

*The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiris bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time and was present at the founding of al Qaeda in 1989.

* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Mr. Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaedas global network.

* In 2001, an al Qaeda member "bragged that the situation in Iraq was good," according to intelligence made public by Mr. Powell.

* That same year, Saudi Arabian border guards arrested two al Qaeda members entering the kingdom from Iraq.

* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, Mr. Powell told the United Nations. His specialty was poisons. Wounded in fighting with U.S. forces, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When Zarqawi recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawis Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, an official of the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawis cell in Iraq, Mr. Powell said. His accomplice escaped to Iraq.

*Zarqawi met with military chief of al Qaeda, Mohammed Ibrahim Makwai (aka Saif al-Adel) in Iran in February 2003, according to intelligence sources cited by the Washington Post.

* Mohammad Atef, the head of al Qaedas military wing until the U.S. killed him in Afghanistan in November 2001, told a senior al Qaeda member now in U.S. custody that the terror network needed labs outside of Afghanistan to manufacture chemical weapons, Mr. Powell said. "Where did they go, where did they look?" said the secretary. "They went to Iraq."

* Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi was sent to Iraq by bin Laden to purchase poison gases several times between 1997 and 2000. He called his relationship with Saddams regime "successful," Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.

* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a Londons Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.

* Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 to undertake jihad," Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekars group was funded by "Saddam Husseins regime in Baghdad."

* After October 2001, hundreds of al Qaeda fighters are believed to have holed up in the Ansar al-Islams strongholds inside northern Iraq.

 

[dmp]

As a veteran, I live with the consequenses of my own participation.


Psychoblues

As a veteran I'm embarrassed for my fellow veterans that somebody having served can be so clueless as you.

:-/

 

[insein]

jimnyc, just so you know. #1. There were and are no WMD's as advertised by the GWB administration in Iraq. #2. Saddam Hussein was never connected with Osama Bin Laden in any capacity, much less one that might lead America into a legitimate WAR. #3. There was never any arrangement with Niger to export enriched uranium or even "yellow cake" or any other nuclear material into Iraq. #4. Valerie Plame "was" certainly a covert agent of the CIA. #5. We were not welcomed into Iraq by any credible representatives of the Iraqi people. #6. Neither the Iraqi peoples or the citizens of America are "safer" now than before the American invasion. #7. The capture of Saddam Hussein has not lessened the intensity of WAR but I suggest has intensified it.

I could go on and on. But, do you get my drift?


Psychoblues

#3 and 4 are all politically motivated and therefore have little credibility to add to the WOT.

#5 is your opinion. What "Credible representatives do you want to welcome us into IRaq when Iraq was controlled by Saddam when we invaded?

#6 is your opinion. I imagine the Iraqi people that aren't being raped, tortured or murdered for not worshiping Saddam might have something different to say about that.

#7 is again your opinion. However im inclined to agree that the intensity has not waned after Saddam's capture due to the desperation of the enemy at seeing another one of their leaders fall. The further you have the enemy cornered, the harder they will fight.

So opinions and bullshit as usually. Not a single to any evidence. More of the same from the great prophet that is, psychoblues.

 

[trobinett]

Two great posts insein.

Set him up with a left, and took him out with straight right.

Let the crying begine. :bat:

 

[Semper Fi]

Psychoblues, do you realize the treacheries of Saddam's regime? Women weren't allowed outside unless in a burka, females couldn't attend schools, the few schools were used as stockpiles for weapons, there was no freedom of press, one of Saddam's sons tortured olympic athletes, ethnic minorities were extinguished USING CHEMICAL WEAPONS, every room had to have a picture of Saddam in it, I could go on all day. Go to google and search for images of a chemical gas attack. I'll do it for you if you want me to when I get home from school.

The American's toppled this regime and are killing terrorists.

In what sort of twisted logic can you convince yourself we are the bad ones here?

 

[DFresh]

And just whose blood have YOU shed for YOUR freedom?

If my freedom was threatened, I would fight. You missed the point entirely. Is this your lame way of telling everyone that you have fought for your country?

 

[GotZoom]

If my freedom was threatened, I would fight. You missed the point entirely. Is this your lame way of telling everyone that you have fought for your country?

I'm getting really tired of all these people, including you, who sit there and say, "I would fight, I would fight."

You don't have a fucking clue as to what it takes to defend our country. Away from families, horrendous living conditions, being shot at, and worse.

Don't sit there and spout your crap until you have even walked 5 feet in Gunny's, Mine, Semper Fi's, dmp's, and everyone else's shoes on this board who served and defended this country. Defended this country so you can talk shit like you know all the answers.

What have you done? Probably nothing but play arm-chair quarterback. A poor one at that.

Tell you what - when you get out there, defending this country, saluting our flag, having someone die in your arms while defending this country - when you can tell me you have done all that, I might give something you say about the war in Iraq some small consideration.

Until then, keep your opinions about the war to yourself.

You are disrespecting every one who has ever served and everyone who is serving now.

 

[DFresh]

I'm getting really tired of all these people, including you, who sit there and say, "I would fight, I would fight."

You don't have a fucking clue as to what it takes to defend our country. Away from families, horrendous living conditions, being shot at, and worse.

Don't sit there and spout your crap until you have even walked 5 feet in Gunny's, Mine, Semper Fi's, dmp's, and everyone else's shoes on this board who served and defended this country. Defended this country so you can talk shit like you know all the answers.

What have you done? Probably nothing but play arm-chair quarterback. A poor one at that.

Tell you what - when you get out there, defending this country, saluting our flag, having someone die in your arms while defending this country - when you can tell me you have done all that, I might give something you say about the war in Iraq some small consideration.

Until then, keep your opinions about the war to yourself.

You are disrespecting every one who has ever served and everyone who is serving now.

Someone get GotZoom a tissue quick, I think he's gonna cry :finger:

 

[GotZoom]

Someone get GotZoom a tissue quick, I think he's gonna cry :finger:

This is the best you can do?

Sad.

Just sad.

 

[dilloduck]

Americans can annilate the world with their weapons. The opposition knows this and they don't care about that circumstance. We are responsibly refraining from world destruction. The opposition has no such capacity. But, they fight on. Why? It's not any hate of freedom they embrace. Maybe it's an unfair and unjust intervention? Maybe it's a religious uprising? I really don't know!

I think it's low-self-esteem, Psycho. :gross2:

 

[DFresh]

Tell you what - when you get out there, defending this country, saluting our flag, having someone die in your arms while defending this country

Mental note -- "Salute flag and have someone die in arms before having an opinion about the war." Got it!!!

 

[dilloduck]

Tell you what - when you get out there, defending this country, saluting our flag, having someone die in your arms while defending this country

Mental note -- "Salute flag and have someone die in arms before having an opinion about the war." Got it!!!

I guess you are the new token "toy" since the mods haven't canned you for flaming , huh?

 

[DFresh]

I'm getting really tired of all these people, including you, who sit there and say, "I would fight, I would fight."

You don't have a fucking clue as to what it takes to defend our country. Away from families, horrendous living conditions, being shot at, and worse.

Don't sit there and spout your crap until you have even walked 5 feet in Gunny's, Mine, Semper Fi's, dmp's, and everyone else's shoes on this board who served and defended this country. Defended this country so you can talk shit like you know all the answers.

What have you done? Probably nothing but play arm-chair quarterback. A poor one at that.

Tell you what - when you get out there, defending this country, saluting our flag, having someone die in your arms while defending this country - when you can tell me you have done all that, I might give something you say about the war in Iraq some small consideration.

Until then, keep your opinions about the war to yourself.

You are disrespecting every one who has ever served and everyone who is serving now.

By those standards GWB shouldn’t have an option about the war

 

[dilloduck]

By those standards GWB shouldn’t have an option about the war

He checked with real army guys and they told him it was OK.

 

[Annie]

Tell you what - when you get out there, defending this country, saluting our flag, having someone die in your arms while defending this country

I guess you are the new token "toy" since the mods haven't canned you for flaming , huh?

I'm thinking about it. Consultation awaiting. He's not much fun as a toy or even as an annoyance.