Bush & Chavez at the Sumit of the Americas

[Said1]

Chavez, posturing before the global community.....never.

Summit of the Americas opens with Chavez and Maradona show
By Sam Knight and agencies

A march of 10,000 anti-Bush protesters, led by the footballer and television host, Diego Maradona, and addressed by Hugo Chavez, the firebrand President of Venezuela, is threatening to overshadow the start of a pan-American summit in Argentina today.

The protesters, marshalled by 8,000 troops and police officers who have been despatched to the resort of Mar de Plata to provide security for the conference, will hold a "People’s Summit" in the hours before the official talks begin.

The demonstration will criticise a free trade initiative which President Bush is expected to put before the Summit of the Americas in favour of more programmes to fight poverty and create jobs. Argentina is still suffering from the largest debt default in history in 2001.

Mr Chavez, an vehement critic of Mr Bush who models himself on the great South American liberators, Simon Bolivar and Che Guevara, will address the protest before attending the formal opening of the summit, where he has joked that he will sneak up on Mr Bush to frighten him.

In recent days, the Organisation of American States, a Washington-based group that organized the summit, has expressed its frustration that the US trade proposal, known as the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA), has dominated the build-up to the conference.

"This is not a summit about the FTAA," said Jose Miguel Insulza, the group's secretary-general, yesterday. Talks tomorrow are expected to focus on South American poverty. Nearly 100 million people in the region survive on less than one dollar per day, according to the UN.

Meanwhile, the American diplomatic team has complained about the posturing of Mr Chavez, who insists that the Bush Administration is determined to topple his government. For his part, Mr Chavez has promised to "bury" the FTAA and yesterday, Venezuela staged an exercise to prepare for a possible US invasion.

"Our respective governments have very different visions for the hemisphere," said Tom Shannon, the chief US diplomat for the Western Hemisphere, on board Air Force One.

"It’s thus hard to imagine a productive dialogue when the Venezuelan government has repeatedly made clear its negative intentions with respect to the summit and its personal animosity toward the president," he said.

"For our point of view, for the region to get the kind of growth it needs, to really begin to address some of the social problems... it needs a stronger trade base," said Mr Shannon, who promised that Mr Bush would listen to South American proposals to fight poverty.

The FTAA, which would aim to create a free trade zone the length and breadth of the Americas, was first proposed by the US in 1994. Supporters of the plan include Canada, Mexico, Chile, Colombia and the Caribbean nations.

But the South American trade bloc of Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay opposes the initiative and refuses to set a date to relaunch negotiations. "Every country or group of countries is standing by their positions and no one is ready to budge," said a source close to Argentine negotiators yesterday.

Link

 

[CSM]

It almost seems as if Chavez is deliberately trying to goad the US into something....just recently he also threatened to give 22 F-16 fighters to China or Cuba, despite an agreement with Venezuala that they would not do that.

It appears that this guy is a shadow of Suddam Hussein.

 

[Said1]

It almost seems as if Chavez is deliberately trying to goad the US into something....just recently he also threatened to give 22 F-16 fighters to China or Cuba, despite an agreement with Venezuala that they would not do that.

It appears that this guy is a shadow of Suddam Hussein.

It would

What gets me is how revered he is by the "left". Mind boggling.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

It would

What gets me is how revered he is by the "left". Mind boggling.

Who reveres him? Way to lump millions of people into a single, unfounded blanket statement Said.

 

[Said1]

Who reveres him? Way to lump millions of people into a single, unfounded blanket statement Said.

Way to pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

In any case, I'm refering to those on the left. In my case, I'm facing East, so all those who live on my left hand side...which is North, are on the left and support Chavez. Kay.

 

[Said1]

I think you also forgot to post your opinion. Which is what???

 

[Hagbard Celine]

I think you also forgot to post your opinion. Which is what???

The guy was elected legally by the people of Venezuela so I think he represents how other Venezuelans feel. He's the president of a piss-ant South American jungle country so his opinion about US policy doesn't really matter that much. He's an idiot if he thinks he's going to win friends and influene people in America by talking the way he does and taking photo-ops with Saddam and Castro. So far all I know about the guy is that he offered cheap heating oil to victims of Katrina as a gift from his country. With people in our country like the idiot Rev. Pat Robertson calling for his assassination on the 700 Club, it's no wonder Chavez is paranoid. That's my opinion. But you know what opinions are like right Said? :gross2:

 

[Said1]

The guy was elected legally by the people of Venezuela so I think he represents how other Venezuelans feel. He's the president of a piss-ant South American jungle country so his opinion about US policy doesn't really matter that much. He's an idiot if he thinks he's going to win friends and influene people in America by talking the way he does and taking photo-ops with Saddam and Castro. So far all I know about the guy is that he offered cheap heating oil to victims of Katrina as a gift from his country. With people in our country like the idiot Rev. Pat Robertson calling for his assassination on the 700 Club, it's no wonder Chavez is paranoid. That's my opinion. But you know what opinions are like right Said? :gross2:

Well think about it for a second. Do you know anything about Castro?

Democracy doesn't always mean the elected leader is what's best for the people. He's created a Vanguard party of sorts, he's a Leninist. He will act on what he "says" is best for the majority and attempt to establish equality of conditon through what is essentially force. This is somethign that sounds good on the surface, but is far from it.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Well think about it for a second. Do you know anything about Castro?

Democracy doesn't always mean the elected leader is what's best for the people. He's created a Vanguard party of sorts, he's a Leninist. He will act on what he "says" is best for the majority and attempt to establish equality of conditon through what is essentially force. This is somethign that sounds good on the surface, but is far from it.

Castro? I know the SOB let Russia park nukes 90 miles off of our coast in the 1960s. I know he's a militant Communist. I know he's old and will die soon. I think Chavez is a definate step forward for Venezuela. It may not be saying much, but he's one of the most stable and ambitious leaders it has had in over a decade.

 

[Said1]

Castro? I know the SOB let Russia park nukes 90 miles off of our coast in the 1960s. I know he's a militant Communist. I know he's old and will die soon. I think Chavez is a definate step forward for Venezuela. It may not be saying much, but he's one of the most stable and ambitious leaders it has had in over a decade.

No, it isn't saying much. Forced equlity of condition and isolationism didn't do much for Russia, or oil dependant Cuba. did it?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Castro? I know the SOB let Russia park nukes 90 miles off of our coast in the 1960s. I know he's a militant Communist. I know he's old and will die soon. I think Chavez is a definate step forward for Venezuela. It may not be saying much, but he's one of the most stable and ambitious leaders it has had in over a decade.

That's like saying appointing a drunkard in charge of a bunch of crack addicts is a definate step forward.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

That's like saying appointing a drunkard in charge of a bunch of crack addicts is a definate step forward.

Well it is isn't it?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Well it is isn't it?

Perhaps, but it's not something I would laud.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Perhaps, but it's not something I would laud.

No lauding here, just stating.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Castro? I know the SOB let Russia park nukes 90 miles off of our coast in the 1960s. I know he's a militant Communist. I know he's old and will die soon. I think Chavez is a definate step forward for Venezuela. It may not be saying much, but he's one of the most stable and ambitious leaders it has had in over a decade.

Chavez is a "step forward"? Spoken like a true leftie. Chavez is nothing more than another Castro socialist on PCP because he's rolling in oil weath. We get almost 15% of our oil from Venezuela. He's just as interested in nukes.

Chavez, a self-described socialist revolutionary fiercely opposed to the US administration, says he wants to cooperate with Argentina, Brazil and possibly Iran to develop nuclear energy as part of his drive for regional integration.
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/WorldNF.asp?ArticleID=188379

Why Bush gave Chavez the opportunity to challenge him is beyond me, especially when his numbers are so low right now. Talk about stepping in it.

 

[sitarro]

Hey Hagbard,
Do you think this piece of shit was a great guy? I have almost all of Santana's work, I will not buy another thing he does because I saw him wearing this ass on a t-shirt. Pure ignorance.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Hey Hagbard,
Do you think this piece of shit was a great guy? I have almost all of Santana's work, I will not buy another thing he does because I saw him wearing this ass on a t-shirt. Pure ignorance.

Don't get too upset, plenty of people wear that guy on their shirt and don't even know who he is. It's a fashion trend more than a political statement.

 

[sitarro]

Don't get too upset, plenty of people wear that guy on their shirt and don't even know who he is. It's a fashion trend more than a political statement.

Once again proving my point about the ignorance that comes with fashion trends. Would we say the same about someone wearing a high contrast silkscreened portait of Hitler or Lenin? This guy was Castro's right hand man and was responsible for the torture(real torture) and deaths of many people. He was a Communist in the worst most hypocritical meaning of the word and his image should be spat upon rather than worn in reverance. Santana is too old and intelligent to excuse for wearing this image.

I have pictures I took of him in concert where he had an image of Jesus on stage with him. Before that he had the Dali Lama's image on stage when he played. Now, when he performs onstage, he will usually have some rude comments about conservatives and capitalism between songs, He is an ass and a hypocrite. He doesn't give his music away, he has made a huge living off of Americans and their love of music. Now he is marketing perfume and shoes at Foleys, and the night before speaking of the evils of capitalism.....he is no different than the many idiots in Hollywood.

I went into a t-shirt shop the other day and asked them for a Hitler shirt, they said they didn't have such a shirt. . .I then asked them for a shirt with David Duke in his Klan costume, again they were shocked and said they didn't sell such an item. I then told them about Al Capone and Che Guevara and said that they might as well stock Saddam t-shirts and left.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Once again proving my point about the ignorance that comes with fashion trends. Would we say the same about someone wearing a high contrast silkscreened portait of Hitler or Lenin? This guy was Castro's right hand man and was responsible for the torture(real torture) and deaths of many people. He was a Communist in the worst most hypocritical meaning of the word and his image should be spat upon rather than worn in reverance. Santana is too old and intelligent to excuse for wearing this image.

I have pictures I took of him in concert where he had an image of Jesus on stage with him. Before that he had the Dali Lama's image on stage when he played. Now, when he performs onstage, he will usually have some rude comments about conservatives and capitalism between songs, He is an ass and a hypocrite. He doesn't give his music away, he has made a huge living off of Americans and their love of music. Now he is marketing perfume and shoes at Foleys, and the night before speaking of the evils of capitalism.....he is no different than the many idiots in Hollywood.

I went into a t-shirt shop the other day and asked them for a Hitler shirt, they said they didn't have such a shirt. . .I then asked them for a shirt with David Duke in his Klan costume, again they were shocked and said they didn't sell such an item. I then told them about Al Capone and Che Guevara and said that they might as well stock Saddam t-shirts and left.

Did you just see him in concert?

 

[Huckleburry]

Y'all,
I am bit confused by the Castro comment. Arn't conservatives also supposed to be political realists. From a realist perspective positioning Russian nukes on Cuba was a clever move. After several failed assasination attempts, and a failed coup Castro should have tried to secure his nation and himself against further attack. Nuclear deterence, especially short and medium range nuclear weapons did just that. I will point out that after the Cuban missile crisis the United States has been content to leave Cuba well enough alone. For a bunch of hard nosed conservatives you all seem to lack the constitution to play in the real arena. i.e. I try to assisnate you, you point nuclear weapons at me and threaten obliteration. You may dislike Castro for personal reasons (although as conservatives he is actually right up your ally) but you can not hate him for political reasons. He acted as he should have, in his own self interest, this is a cornerstone of conservative political thought. How can you hate a guy who plays by your rules and wins? In short...Don't hate the player hate the game....