Bush campaign lawyer advises swiftboat vets

[busch2008]

John Kerry paraded his Swift Boat 'pals' and doesn't get the connection that he is using them as his only claim to fame. Kerry doesn't hide the fact that his soft money friends are paying for their testimony.

This is a John Kerry issue point to get him sympathy with the Viet veterans whom he called killers of innocent Vietnamese.

Kerry won't release his Vietnam service records. Probably because they prove he is a real hero and doesn't want to brag about his exploits leading his men through rice paddies and fighting to save drowning friend.

There are a lot more Vietnam vets who are alive and who remember this war. Those in Viet cong prisoner camps also remember John Kerry. The Vietnam jailors played Kerry's claims that American captives were not soldiers but murderers.

Many will remember on election day too.

Kerry's poll numbers are falling even before the RNC nomination next week.

Bush is no Vietnam hero or is he right all the time but most people have to decide who is stronger and steadfast in the course to protect America.

They will decide whether its Flipper or GS Bush.

Duh.....

We'll see about that. I don't pretend to know for certain what Americans are going to do. Both Kerry and Bush have a lot riding on this Vietnam thing. It could easily backfire on the Bush Campaign, or it could ruin Kerry. The latest poll numbers show Bush gaining on Kerry, but the Swiftboat Vets have been discredited only in the last few days. Its hard to know at this point what the impact will be. The next big step is the RNC in NYC. It will be fun to watch at least.

 

[duke]

We'll see about that. I don't pretend to know for certain what Americans are going to do. Both Kerry and Bush have a lot riding on this Vietnam thing. It could easily backfire on the Bush Campaign, or it could ruin Kerry. The latest poll numbers show Bush gaining on Kerry, but the Swiftboat Vets have been discredited only in the last few days. Its hard to know at this point what the impact will be. The next big step is the RNC in NYC. It will be fun to watch at least.

Sorry to tell you this but the only people who have been discredited so far
are:John Kerry...Micheal Moore....and lets not forget Sandy Berger...oh and whats his face the liar that went to Niger(forgot his name)

 

[tpahl]

Let me clarify tpahl. Instead of all these front groups posing as "independent" and not partisan, we will simply have each group saying what they always say and not trying to deceive the public.

What does it matter whether they claim to be independant or not. The media claims to have no biased but it is obvious they do. Look at the NY times and tell me it is not liberal. Try telling me fox news is really fair and balanced.

Regardless of what groups will say, people are smart enough to determine for themselves whether they think a group has a biased and take that into account when they hear things from these groups.

 

[Avatar4321]

We'll see about that. I don't pretend to know for certain what Americans are going to do. Both Kerry and Bush have a lot riding on this Vietnam thing. It could easily backfire on the Bush Campaign, or it could ruin Kerry. The latest poll numbers show Bush gaining on Kerry, but the Swiftboat Vets have been discredited only in the last few days. Its hard to know at this point what the impact will be. The next big step is the RNC in NYC. It will be fun to watch at least.

What the heck does President Bush have riding on the Vietnam war? Bush has alot riding on the war on terror and the economy. Both of which are doing pretty well. Bush hasnt even mentioned Vietnam.

 

[tpahl]

What the heck does President Bush have riding on the Vietnam war? Bush has alot riding on the war on terror and the economy. Both of which are doing pretty well. Bush hasnt even mentioned Vietnam.

The war on terror and economy is doing pretty well?

 

[Avatar4321]

The war on terror and economy is doing pretty well?

Yeah, unless youve been living in a cave on mars with your eyes closed and your ears shut for the last three years its obvious they are both going well. we have destroyed one of the supply lines to the terrorists. brought freedom several oppressive regions and killed terrorists. War on terror is going great. And the economy is the best its been in decades. unemployment is super low, revenues are up, stocks are up, more people can afford housing then ever etc. what exactly is bad about either?

 

[spillmind]

i'll admit it was impressive of the bushco. machine to pit veterans against veterans... considering the incredibly heroic showings of your pres and VP, they have been virtually unscathed! brilliant!

but i agree that political lobby is all or nothing. until a candidate can go around and collect signatures and get out to the people, and really do things for the people, it's all a huge hotbed of corruption. both parties are totally guilty of it and it's totally dispicable.

you may not agree with MM, and i have said he ofter leans too far left for my taste, but i have to say that guy is a true believer in america. he truly fights for the little guy.

this government works for us, and if we need to, we can change it. until we can see a viable third party into the fray, the economic and social aspects of our society with further polarize.

the way that money is raised for our presidential election is all about special interest, and you better believe some people have a lot of potential benefits from these investments.

the best either side can do is concede they are no better than the other. this conservative holier-than-thou bit is killing me.

 

[spillmind]

'They will decide whether its Flipper or GS Bush'

AMERICAN POLITICS = 'FLIP FLOPPING'

if you think bush has never made an about face on dozens of issues, pass the crack pipe.

 

[acludem]

I saw the leader of this group - which I firmly believed was formed by and is lead by disciples of Karl Rove - on Hannity and Colmes last night. Alan Colmes repeatedly pointed out the inconsistencies of the guy's argument, even using his own words against him.

These guys aren't acting on anything other than there desire to see Bush re-elected. They'll smear John Kerry if that's what it takes. Karl Rove's friends have funded and organized this group. As for the comparison between the Bush/Swift Boat captain's lawyer and the DNC/Moveon.org lawyer, there is a big difference. The Bush lawyer was part of the inner circle of his re-election team. The DNC/MoveOn guy isn't a central figure with either group. This would be like comparing Karl Rove, to oh...say...me (of course I would never want to be compared to such a slime bucket).

acludem

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

I saw the leader of this group - which I firmly believed was formed by and is lead by disciples of Karl Rove - on Hannity and Colmes last night. Alan Colmes repeatedly pointed out the inconsistencies of the guy's argument, even using his own words against him.

These guys aren't acting on anything other than there desire to see Bush re-elected. They'll smear John Kerry if that's what it takes. Karl Rove's friends have funded and organized this group. As for the comparison between the Bush/Swift Boat captain's lawyer and the DNC/Moveon.org lawyer, there is a big difference. The Bush lawyer was part of the inner circle of his re-election team. The DNC/MoveOn guy isn't a central figure with either group. This would be like comparing Karl Rove, to oh...say...me (of course I would never want to be compared to such a slime bucket).

acludem

That is a load of crap. The only thing they have so far is one volunteer and a lawyer that, like it or not, was in the same capacity for Bush and the swift boat vets as Joe Sandler is for Kerry and MoveOn.org, and that comes from Sandler himself.

You want to talk about smear campaigns? Al Gore, Howard Dean, Michael Moore, George Soros, Whoopi Goldberg, Al Sharpton, Al Franken, just to name a few, have been merciless with their bashing of President Bush. One ad from one group, John Kerry immediately accuses the President of being behind it, and the cattle fall right in line. Amazing.

 

[jimnyc]

you may not agree with MM, and i have said he ofter leans too far left for my taste, but i have to say that guy is a true believer in america. he truly fights for the little guy.

"Americans are possibly the dumbest people on the planet... in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks. We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing." - Michael Moore

"Do you feel like you live in a nation of idiots? I used to console myself about the state of stupidity in this country by repeating this to myself: even if there are 200 million stone-cold idiots in this country, that leaves at least 80 million who will get what I'm saying" - P.85 of Michael Moore's book "Stupid white men"

"The dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American" - Michael Moore at London's Roundhouse Theater.

"The dumbest Canadian in attendance could surely outwit the smartest American" - Michael Moore on his North American tour in Canada

Sure, he's a true believer in America and fights for the little guy. The only thing this fat fuck believes in is donuts and making money.

 

[lilcountriegal]

i'll admit it was impressive of the bushco. machine to pit veterans against veterans....

What a crock of shit. Care to explain how Bush is pitting vets against vets? Your selective memory is showing again Spilly. It was Kerry, not Bush, who brought veterans and war records into this campaign.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

What a crock of shit. Care to explain how Bush is pitting vets against vets? Your selective memory is showing again Spilly. It was Kerry, not Bush, who brought veterans and war records into this campaign.

Kerry is also the one who says that people are questioning his patriotism if they question any aspect of his service, anti-veteran activities, or his voting record. But he turns around and does the same thing with the Swift Boat Veterans.

jimnyc

Not only that, but Moore also had this to say about small businesses:

"You know in my town the small businesses that everyone wanted to protect? They were the people that supported all the right-wing groups. They were the Republicans in the town, they were in the Kiwanas, the Chamber of Commerce - people that kept the town all white. The small hardware salesman, the small clothing store salespersons, Jesse the Barber who signed his name three different times on three different petitions to recall me from the school board. Fuck all these small businesses - fuck 'em all! Bring in the chains. The small businesspeople are the rednecks that run the town and suppress the people. Fuck 'em all. That's how I feel."

Way to stand up for the little guy.

 

[ajwps]

I saw the leader of this group - which I firmly believed was formed by and is lead by disciples of Karl Rove - on Hannity and Colmes last night. Alan Colmes repeatedly pointed out the inconsistencies of the guy's argument, even using his own words against him.

These guys aren't acting on anything other than there desire to see Bush re-elected. They'll smear John Kerry if that's what it takes. Karl Rove's friends have funded and organized this group. As for the comparison between the Bush/Swift Boat captain's lawyer and the DNC/Moveon.org lawyer, there is a big difference. The Bush lawyer was part of the inner circle of his re-election team. The DNC/MoveOn guy isn't a central figure with either group. This would be like comparing Karl Rove, to oh...say...me (of course I would never want to be compared to such a slime bucket). acludem

Who do you think started all this swift boat veteran's testimony? Who dragged out the first of these swift boat veterans in the first place?

Was it George W. Bush or John Kerry who needed to promote his Vietnam war record. Well, Kerry and his promoters should have thoroughly checked any incriminating evidence of Kerry's actual adventures in Vietnam which is recorded on paper. Kerry wants his soft money pals to promote his heroic medal winning war status but wants Bush to renounce the other veterans who knew Kerry or suffered by his treacherous behavior.

His war record ploy has backfired on Kerry big-time. Have Kerry release his war records and the reports he filled out for him to get his medals. The only ones that are really paying attention are the many living Viet vets and they know what he is and was.

Now back to the presidential race on Kerry's mostly absent senatorial record.

 

[ajwps]

There is no verifiable evidence that Michael Moore is receiving large amounts of money from Ossama Bin Laden and Cleric Sadr in Iraq.

Michael Moore's money trail and activities soon to be subject of US Dept of Justice investigation.

 

[acludem]

Yeah but they aren't using a tax loophole to do it. They aren't running ads question the patriotism and service of not just John Kerry but those veterans who are supporting him. The names you mention are unabashed about the fact that are involved in the Kerry campaign and the DNC. "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" claims to be a neutral organization, only formed to oppose John Kerry, yet several prominent Bush supporters sit on the groups board of directors, a close ally of Karl Rove's provided funding and advice, etc.

acludem

 

[Merlin1047]

Yeah but they aren't using a tax loophole to do it. They aren't running ads question the patriotism and service of not just John Kerry but those veterans who are supporting him. The names you mention are unabashed about the fact that are involved in the Kerry campaign and the DNC. "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" claims to be a neutral organization, only formed to oppose John Kerry, yet several prominent Bush supporters sit on the groups board of directors, a close ally of Karl Rove's provided funding and advice, etc.

acludem

I cannot recall that anyone ever questioned the service of any vet other than kerry. And why does it surprise you to find Bush supporters helping to provide funding for this group? My guess is the SBVFT would accept money from kerry supporters but so far no offers have materialized. Why are you so indignant of the paltry sums spent by this group when something on the order of fifty million bucks of soft money is going to support kerry? Oh, I get it - you're pissed because $250,000 worth of truth has gotten more mileage than fifty million worth of Democrat propoganda.

These guys aren't acting on anything other than there desire to see Bush re-elected. They'll smear John Kerry if that's what it takes. Karl Rove's friends have funded and organized this group. As for the comparison between the Bush/Swift Boat captain's lawyer and the DNC/Moveon.org lawyer, there is a big difference. The Bush lawyer was part of the inner circle of his re-election team. The DNC/MoveOn guy isn't a central figure with either group. This would be like comparing Karl Rove, to oh...say...me (of course I would never want to be compared to such a slime bucket).

Too bad that carping, quibbling and equivocating are not olympic events. We could have sent you and come in first, second and third. Aren't you being just a little selective in your feigned outrage? The DNC and the Democratic freak show have been lying, distorting and propogandizing before the election ever kicked off. And as far as your gratuitous statement "This would be like comparing Karl Rove, to oh...say...me (of course I would never want to be compared to such a slime bucket)" - well here we agree. I wouldn't want to compare you to Rove either. I'm sure you'd would be much more comfortable being compared to Soros.

 

[ajwps]

Kerry, in 1971, Admitted Writing Combat Reports
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
August 26, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's 1971 testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee reveals that the then anti-war activist admitted to writing many of the battle reports during his four months of combat in Vietnam.

Kerry told the committee on April 22, 1971, "...I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission..."

Kerry also said that many in the military had "a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see."

Kerry's comments about the battle reports came in response to a question from then Senator Stuart Symington (D- Mo.), who wondered about the accuracy of information from military sources.

According to the testimony , which is available in the Congressional Record, Sen. Symington asked Kerry, "Mr. Kerry, from your experience in Vietnam do you think it is possible for the President or Congress to get accurate and undistorted information through official military channels.[?]"

Kerry responded, "I had direct experience with that. Senator, I had direct experience with that and I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission; and including the GDA, gunfire damage assessments, in which we would say, maybe 15 sampans sunk or whatever it was. And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures.

Kerry later added, "I also think men in the military, sir, as do men in many other things, have a tendency to report what they want to report and see what they want to see."

The 34-year-old testimony could shed light on the present debate over who wrote key battlefield reports that critics of Kerry say allowed him to win awards.

B. G. Burkett, author of the book Stolen Valor and a military researcher, calls the 1971 testimony "significant."

"What is significant about this is [Kerry] is readily admitting that he often submitted reports and he is implying that he himself exaggerated in those reports," Burkett told CNSNews.com.

"We have no way of knowing specifically which documents Kerry composed; and of the the ones he did compose -- did he in fact exaggerate or outright lie in those reports? That is the issue here," Burkett said.

The controversy about who authored the now controversial after-action reports arose earlier this week, when the Washington Post obtained the military records of Larry Thurlow, one of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Thurlow's military records indicated that enemy fire erupted after Kerry's boat was hit by a mine explosion on March 13, 1969.

Thurlow now insists there was no enemy fire that day. The best selling new book by John O'Neill and Jerome Corsi, Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry, details the groups' critique of Kerry. Kerry has denounced the book and the Swift Boat vets and accused them of being an affiliate of President Bush's re-election campaign.

Thurlow and Kerry were each awarded a Bronze Star for heroism on that 13th day of March. Kerry also received his third Purple Heart as a result of the events of that day.

At the center of the controversy is whether or not there was enemy fire during Kerry's rescue of James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River. Kerry and Rassmann and others say there was enemy fire, while Thurlow and other swift boat veterans insist there was not.

Thurlow's own Bronze Star citation states that there was "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units." But Thurlow believes his citation was based on Kerry's own account of the day.

"I am convinced that the language used in my citation ... was language taken directly from John Kerry's report," Thurlow said earlier this week. "John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incident," Thurlow added.

The Washington Post summed up the controversy this way: "Much of the debate over who is telling the truth boils down to whether the two-page after-action report and other Navy records are accurate or whether they have been embellished by Kerry or someone else."

Burkett believes that Kerry stated the controversy surrounding his war record.

"Kerry thought that he could make a grand presentation of his combat record, and there would be no response, obviously, from the Republicans, considering the lack of military experience on that side of the aisle," Burkett said.

"I think [Kerry] completely misjudged the anger of Vietnam Veterans collectively and their ability to organize and have an answer to John Kerry," he added.