Bravo conservatives, you would have my support!

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by Bfgrn, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Bfgrn
    Offline

    Bfgrn Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    16,829
    Thanks Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    Our criminal justice system is badly broken. A failed draconian war on drugs, mandatory sentences and way too many laws has created a monster. It is consuming too many of our youth, to many of our people and too many of our resources that could be put to better use.

    To incarcerate one human being costs taxpayers around $30 - $40,000 per year!!!

    Think about this my fellow citizens:

    Today, the US is 5% of the World population and has 25% of world prison population. That is not the America I grew up in, or want my children and grandchildren to grow up in...

    Do YOU?

    November/December 2012

    The Conservative War on Prisons

    Right-wing operatives have decided that prisons are a lot like schools: hugely expensive, inefficient, and in need of root-and-branch reform.

    [​IMG]

    Take Newt Gingrich, who made a promise of more incarceration an item of his 1994 Contract with America. Seventeen years later, he had changed his tune. “There is an urgent need to address the astronomical growth in the prison population, with its huge costs in dollars and lost human potential,” Gingrich wrote in 2011. “The criminal-justice system is broken, and conservatives must lead the way in fixing it.”

    None of Gingrich’s rivals in the vicious Republican presidential primary exploited these statements. If anything, his position is approaching party orthodoxy. The 2012 Republican platform declares, “Prisons should do more than punish; they should attempt to rehabilitate and institute proven prisoner reentry systems to reduce recidivism and future victimization.” What’s more, a rogue’s gallery of conservative crime warriors have joined Gingrich’s call for Americans to rethink their incarceration reflex. They include Ed Meese, Asa Hutchinson, William Bennett—even the now-infamous American Legislative Exchange Council. Most importantly, more than a dozen states have launched serious criminal justice reform efforts in recent years, with conservatives often in the lead.

    Skeptics might conclude that conservatives are only rethinking criminal justice because lockups have become too expensive. But whether prison costs too much depends on what you think of incarceration’s benefits. Change is coming to criminal justice because an alliance of evangelicals and libertarians have put those benefits on trial. Discovering that the nation’s prison growth is morally objectionable by their own, conservative standards, they are beginning to attack it—and may succeed where liberals, working the issue on their own, have, so far, failed.

    This will do more than simply put the nation on a path to a more rational and humane correctional system. It will also provide an example of how bipartisan policy breakthroughs are still possible in our polarized age.


    It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape.
    Thomas Jefferson
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  2. AmyNation
    Offline

    AmyNation Road Warrior Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Messages:
    9,021
    Thanks Received:
    1,013
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Currently stationed at the kitchen table
    Ratings:
    +1,016
    The war on drugs was one of the worst ideas ever implemented.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  3. Katzndogz
    Offline

    Katzndogz Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    65,659
    Thanks Received:
    7,418
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +8,337
    The war on drugs isn't consuming your youth. Drugs are consuming your youth. The war on drugs didn't cause failing schools, failed families and failed people. Drugs did that. The liberal answer is to expand drug taking. The war on drugs was a bad idea, it should always have been a war on drug users and fought as a real war, without accommodation.
     
  4. CrusaderFrank
    Online

    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    81,174
    Thanks Received:
    14,905
    Trophy Points:
    2,210
    Ratings:
    +36,916
    Just had this conversation with my son who said that so much of the criminal cases belong in civil court; they're not crimes against society, they're between people.

    Oh, and legalize it!
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. martybegan
    Offline

    martybegan Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    29,281
    Thanks Received:
    4,000
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +10,915
    For some drugs, the other option, just letting people use it freely is just as bad. The main problem is people and drugs are lumped into the same degree of abuse and deteriment to society. It is a typical governmental "one size fits all" solution to the problem, which for all its troubles, is actually easier than other solutions.

    A good example is with drunk driving being defined as 0.08 BAC. while it does make it easy to say if someone is legally impared or not impaired, it does not actually tell you if the person cannot drive witth that much alcohol in them. Some people may be able to drive perfectly at 0.12 and others are menaces at 0.04. What it does it makes it easier for authorities to impose the rule.

    You get the same with drugs. Some people can fucntion when using them, others cannot. Some drugs are far less dangerous to use recreationally, both physically and socially. But because it is easier to lump them together and treat everyone the same regaerdless of their ability to use the drugs recreationally (not abusively) you get the current method of enforcement.

    I dont have a good answer to this, but the current situation is unmanageable.
     
  6. Katzndogz
    Offline

    Katzndogz Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    65,659
    Thanks Received:
    7,418
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +8,337
    The reason why the current situation is unmanageable is because too many people cannot get through the day without being impaired for at least part of it. For whatever reason, they find life so untenentable that they cannot face their lives without being high. Nor do they need to because they will be cared for no matter how bad the addiction.
     
  7. martybegan
    Offline

    martybegan Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    29,281
    Thanks Received:
    4,000
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +10,915
    That leads to two paths for a solution, both untenable in my opinion. One, is that we isolate those addicts from society. One subpath is we forcefully wean them off and hope for the best. The other subpath is that we isolate them and give them as much drug as they want, and let the problem "solve itself."

    The other solution is that we deny any medical care to those who show evidence of drug abuse. Ironically under a single payer medical system, this would be easier to obtain.
     
  8. George Costanza
    Offline

    George Costanza A Friendly Liberal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,179
    Thanks Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    155
    Location:
    Los Angeles area.
    Ratings:
    +1,187
    Yeah - if only these weak-willed people could suck it up and run their lives the way WE are able to run OURS, there wouldn't be any problem, right? In the meantime, clap 'em in irons!

    You are absolutly clueless on this issue, Katz.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  9. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    this is what happens when you let the free market into the prison system
     
  10. Bfgrn
    Offline

    Bfgrn Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    16,829
    Thanks Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    Prohibition never works. It only empowers the cartels, pushers and criminals. Marijuana is not a 'gateway' to hard drugs, buying marijuana is a gateway to involvement and influence with the cartels, pushers and criminals who push and make their real wealth on the addicting and expensive hard drugs.

    Ironic, Portugal, a socially conservative and predominantly Roman Catholic country decriminalized all drugs 12 years ago. It has been a HUGE success.

    "Under the pressure of the cares and sorrows of our mortal condition, men have at all times, and in all countries, called in some physical aid to their moral consolations - wine, beer, opium, brandy, or tobacco."
    Edmund Burke

    [​IMG]

    Drug Decriminalization Policy Pays Off


    By any metric, Portugal's drug-decriminalization scheme has been a resounding success.

    Ten years ago, Portugal became the first Western nation to pass full-scale, nationwide decriminalization. That law, passed Oct. 1, 2000, abolished criminal sanctions for all narcotics — not just marijuana but also "hard drugs" like heroin and cocaine.

    This applies only to drugs for personal use; drug trafficking remains a criminal offense. There is now a decade's worth of empirical data on what actually happens — and does not happen — when criminal sanctions against drug possession are lifted.

    Individuals caught with drugs in Portugal are no longer arrested or treated as criminals. Instead, they are sent to a tribunal of health professionals, where they are offered the opportunity, but are not compelled, to seek government-provided treatment.

    For those found to be addicts, tribunals have the power to impose noncriminal sanctions. But in practice, the overriding goal is to direct people to treatment.

    By any metric, Portugal's drug-decriminalization scheme has been a resounding success. Drug usage in many categories has decreased in absolute terms, including for key demographic groups, like 15-to-19-year-olds. Where usage rates have increased, the increases have been modest — far less than in most other European Union nations, which continue to use a criminalization approach.

    Portugal, whose drug problems were among the worst in Europe, now has the lowest usage rate for marijuana and one of the lowest for cocaine. Drug-related pathologies, including HIV transmission, hepatitis transmission and drug-related deaths, have declined significantly.

    Beyond the data, Portugal's success with decriminalization is illustrated by the absence of political agitation for a return to criminalization. As one might expect for a socially conservative and predominantly Roman Catholic country, the decriminalization proposal sparked intense controversy a decade ago.

    Many politicians insisted that a vast parade of horribles would be unleashed, including massive increases in drug use among youth and the conversion of Lisbon into a "drug haven for tourists."

    But none of those scary scenarios occurred. Portuguese citizens, able to compare the out-of-control drug problems of the 1990s with the vastly improved situation now, have little desire to return to the days of criminalization. No influential politician advocates doing so.

    Though Portugal's population is far smaller than that of the United States, more than 10 million people is hardly insignificant. But far more relevant than population size is that Portugal in the 1990s — like the U.S. today — had an exploding drug problem. And the more the nation criminalized, the worse the problem became.

    Cato
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1

Share This Page