Bottom Line: The Left Believe the Declaration of Independence Is A Lie

[daveman]

The Left WROTE The Declaration of Independence

Not today’s Left.

Are you sure?
Boy are you dumb

Today’s Left HATES America’s right to sovereignty....the very essence of the Declaration Of Independence....Where have you been LefTardo?

Actually, we recognize we are part of a global economy. We used to be leader of the free world but Trump surrendered that as he cowered before dictators and broke our alliances

You misspelled "Obama".

 

[daveman]

The Left WROTE The Declaration of Independence

If that were true we would have the Communist Manifesto instead. The left were the ones wanting to keep King George in charge of their lives.

You do realize it was Conservative Torries who supported King George?

Liberals back then used to Tar and Feather the Torries
We call those the good ole days

Tory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You use the words back then as if they apply today. They don’t. The American version of a liberal in 2020 would not only never consider a founding document such as the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution they would reject it in it's entirety. You reject it today. You’re entire party rejects it. There is no part of those documents you would defend. None.

Are you trying to tell us that Liberals have to maintain the same views they had 250 years ago to remain Liberal?

That evolving to support the rights of blacks, women, workers or protecting the environment makes them no longer Liberal?

Do Conservatives have the same views they had 250 years ago?

You weren't liberal then and you're not liberal now. You hijacked the word but have nothing in common with the meaning. You're democrats, and yes, after 250 years our views have not changed about you. You're all shit bags.

A liberal is a liberal, is a liberal

They look at society and ask......how can I make it better?

That hasn’t changed for centuries

You mean, they ask "How can I make it better for my Party?"

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

They would have informed on the Revolutionaries to the Crown.

The "conservatives" of the day, sided with the King- the liberals wanted a separate Country- albeit, they were classical liberals- the conservatives won, eventually, leaving us with a centralized power in DC with the Bill of Rights as the only concession they were willing to give into- they were called Federalist- the anti-federalist feared what we're now living- so, in political speak that is *status quo* (central authority from a distant location) and the Empty Suit Brigades in the Districts of Criminals around the Country are more than happy with it- including clowns on BOTH sides of the aisle, which exists purely for their entertainment and our division-

Conservatives today are classical liberals.

No, conservatives today are conservatives. Not whatever new retarded box you wish to put them in. You know shit. Stop talking.

you leftist love to redefine what something is even in the middle of a discussion
SO YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP SNOWFLAKE.

Nah. I'm actually republican minded. Don't know what the fuck you believe you are.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

No, conservatives today are conservatives. Not whatever new retarded box you wish to put them in. You know shit. Stop talking.

The root of conservative is "conserve"- to conserve is to keep- in political speak that is "status quo"- stop being so ignorant.

When the definition of 'status quo' gets changed by the week from Cult45, your argument has no teeth. You stop being so ignorant.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Left WROTE The Declaration of Independence

I would largely agree with that, however, the "left" of those days has little in common with any of you.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

They would have informed on the Revolutionaries to the Crown.

The "conservatives" of the day, sided with the King- the liberals wanted a separate Country- albeit, they were classical liberals- the conservatives won, eventually, leaving us with a centralized power in DC with the Bill of Rights as the only concession they were willing to give into- they were called Federalist- the anti-federalist feared what we're now living- so, in political speak that is *status quo* (central authority from a distant location) and the Empty Suit Brigades in the Districts of Criminals around the Country are more than happy with it- including clowns on BOTH sides of the aisle, which exists purely for their entertainment and our division-

Conservatives today are classical liberals.

No, conservatives today are conservatives. Not whatever new retarded box you wish to put them in. You know shit. Stop talking.

you leftist love to redefine what something is even in the middle of a discussion
SO YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP SNOWFLAKE.

Nah. I'm actually republican minded. Don't know what the fuck you believe you are.

I'm an observant person that has a very good memory and from what I remember about what you write is pure pro leftism

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Left WROTE The Declaration of Independence

I would largely agree with that, however, the "left" of those days has little in common with any of you.

and their views would more than likely be banned from this board by many of the mods here

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

They would have informed on the Revolutionaries to the Crown.

The "conservatives" of the day, sided with the King- the liberals wanted a separate Country- albeit, they were classical liberals- the conservatives won, eventually, leaving us with a centralized power in DC with the Bill of Rights as the only concession they were willing to give into- they were called Federalist- the anti-federalist feared what we're now living- so, in political speak that is *status quo* (central authority from a distant location) and the Empty Suit Brigades in the Districts of Criminals around the Country are more than happy with it- including clowns on BOTH sides of the aisle, which exists purely for their entertainment and our division-

Conservatives today are classical liberals.

No, conservatives today are conservatives. Not whatever new retarded box you wish to put them in. You know shit. Stop talking.

you leftist love to redefine what something is even in the middle of a discussion
SO YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP SNOWFLAKE.

Nah. I'm actually republican minded. Don't know what the fuck you believe you are.

I'm an observant person that has a very good memory and from what I remember about what you write is pure pro leftism

No, based on every contribution I've seen from a low IQ hayseed like you, you're a spectacularly dumb person. Not observant. A shit memory at best. A low down individual who is a follower of dumb conspiratorial shit that never did anything extraordinary in his miserable life.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

They would have informed on the Revolutionaries to the Crown.

The "conservatives" of the day, sided with the King- the liberals wanted a separate Country- albeit, they were classical liberals- the conservatives won, eventually, leaving us with a centralized power in DC with the Bill of Rights as the only concession they were willing to give into- they were called Federalist- the anti-federalist feared what we're now living- so, in political speak that is *status quo* (central authority from a distant location) and the Empty Suit Brigades in the Districts of Criminals around the Country are more than happy with it- including clowns on BOTH sides of the aisle, which exists purely for their entertainment and our division-

Conservatives today are classical liberals.

No, conservatives today are conservatives. Not whatever new retarded box you wish to put them in. You know shit. Stop talking.

you leftist love to redefine what something is even in the middle of a discussion
SO YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP SNOWFLAKE.

Nah. I'm actually republican minded. Don't know what the fuck you believe you are.

I'm an observant person that has a very good memory and from what I remember about what you write is pure pro leftism

No, based on every contribution I've seen from a low IQ hayseed like you, you're a spectacularly dumb person. Not observant. A shit memory at best. A low down individual who is a follower of dumb conspiratorial shit that never did anything extraordinary in his miserable life.

Says the idiot that uses a dead weed as a moniker

 

[rightwinger]

The Left WROTE The Declaration of Independence

I would largely agree with that, however, the "left" of those days has little in common with any of you.

How much do people of those times have in common with people of today?

A liberal is still a liberal
They look at the challenges of their time and try to improve them

 

[Gdjjr]

I'm an observant person that has a very good memory and from what I remember about what you write is pure pro leftism

And I care about what you think?

 

[Gdjjr]

Ooooh, somebody's cranky. Take a nap, kid.

I'm 72, punk

 

[Gdjjr]

I see no political genius's addressed this- who does the below represent?

• THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow the wealth didn't trickle down very much.
• CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.
• DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminish profits, including protecting the environment and safety on the job.
  • PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.
  • ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if they fail, as "lazy."

 

[Gdjjr]

When the definition of 'status quo' gets changed by the week from Cult45, your argument has no teeth. You stop being so ignorant.

status quo:

noun: status quo; noun: statusquo

1. the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues.

The root of conservative is to keep-

 

[Gdjjr]

The Declaration of Independence and Natural Rights

Thomas Jefferson, drawing on the current thinking of his time, used natural rights ideas to justify declaring independence from England.

Thomas Jefferson, age 33, arrived in Philadelphia on June 20, 1775, as a Virginia delegate to the Second Continental Congress. Fighting at Lexington, Concord, and Bunker Hill had already broken out between the colonists and British troops. Even so, most in Congress wanted to work out some mutual agreement with the mother country.

snip

Natural Rights

The members of the Continental Congress made only two minor changes in the opening paragraphs of Jefferson's draft declaration. In these two paragraphs, Jefferson developed some key ideas: "all men are created equal," "inalienable rights," "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Where did Jefferson get these ideas?


Jefferson was a man of the Enlightenment. This was the period during the 17th and 18th centuries when thinkers turned to reason and science to explain both the physical universe and human behavior. Those like Jefferson thought that by discovering the "laws of nature" humanity could be improved.


Jefferson did not invent the ideas that he used to justify the American Revolution. He himself said that he had adopted the "harmonizing sentiments of the day." These ideas were, so to speak, "in the air" at the time.


As a man of the Enlightenment, Jefferson was well acquainted with British history and political philosophy. He also had read the statements of independence drafted by Virginia and other colonies as well as the writings of fellow revolutionaries like Tom Paine and George Mason. In composing the declaration, Jefferson followed the format of the English Declaration of Rights, written after the Glorious Revolution of 1689.


Most scholars today believe that Jefferson derived the most famous ideas in the Declaration of Independence from the writings of English philosopher John Locke. Locke wrote his Second Treatise of Government in 1689 at the time of England's Glorious Revolution, which overthrew the rule of James II.


Locke wrote that all individuals are equal in the sense that they are born with certain "inalienable" natural rights. That is, rights that are God-given and can never be taken or even given away. Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property."


Locke believed that the most basic human law of nature is the preservation of mankind. To serve that purpose, he reasoned, individuals have both a right and a duty to preserve their own lives. Murderers, however, forfeit their right to life since they act outside the law of reason.


Locke also argued that individuals should be free to make choices about how to conduct their own lives as long as they do not interfere with the liberty of others. Locke therefore believed liberty should be far-reaching.


By "property," Locke meant more than land and goods that could be sold, given away, or even confiscated by the government under certain circumstances. Property also referred to ownership of one's self, which included a right to personal well being. Jefferson, however, substituted the phrase, "pursuit of happiness," which Locke and others had used to describe freedom of opportunity as well as the duty to help those in want.


The purpose of government, Locke wrote, is to secure and protect the God-given inalienable natural rights of the people. For their part, the people must obey the laws of their rulers. Thus, a sort of contract exists between the rulers and the ruled. But, Locke concluded, if a government persecutes its people with "a long train of abuses" over an extended period, the people have the right to resist that government, alter or abolish it, and create a new political system.


Jefferson adopted John Locke's theory of natural rights to provide a reason for revolution. He then went on to offer proof that revolution was necessary in 1776 to end King George's tyranny over the colonists.


"All Men Are Created Equal"

 

[bendog]

I believe Thomas Jefferson's above words were inspired less by truth and more by the words

The inspiration is immaterial to the meaning of the words- which is what they ALL signed onto.

I think you can only "judge" a person in the context of his times. When Jefferson wrote the DI there really was not the consensus in the western world of the moral depravity of slavery. Jefferson's words (and actions towards raping sally hemmings and keeping his children in slavery) reveal he did not consider Black people as human beings. But as you point out, ALL those who signed the DI shared the view.

The OP maintains dems think the DI is a "lie." Whatever the fk that means. LOL But when Jefferson wrote "all men" he did not mean "all men" as we use the term today.

 

[Gdjjr]

But when Jefferson wrote "all men" he did not mean "all men" as we use the term today.

Can you provide the *definition* he used? What precisely do you feel he meant?

definition:
a statement of the exact meaning of a word, especially in a dictionary.



First Known Use of definition
14th century, in the meaning defined at sense 4

History and Etymology for definition
Middle English diffinicioun, borrowed from Anglo-French diffiniciun, definiciun, borrowed from Latin dēfīnītiōn-, dēfīnītiō "fixing of a boundary, precise description," from dēfīnīre "to mark the limits of, determine, define" + -tiōn-, -tiō, suffix of verbal action

Definition of DEFINITION

a statement of the meaning of a word or word group or a sign or symbol; a statement expressing the essential nature of something; a product of defining… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[bendog]

But when Jefferson wrote "all men" he did not mean "all men" as we use the term today.

Can you provide the *definition* he used? What precisely do you feel he meant?

definition:
a statement of the exact meaning of a word, especially in a dictionary.



First Known Use of definition
14th century, in the meaning defined at sense 4

History and Etymology for definition
Middle English diffinicioun, borrowed from Anglo-French diffiniciun, definiciun, borrowed from Latin dēfīnītiōn-, dēfīnītiō "fixing of a boundary, precise description," from dēfīnīre "to mark the limits of, determine, define" + -tiōn-, -tiō, suffix of verbal action

Definition of DEFINITION

a statement of the meaning of a word or word group or a sign or symbol; a statement expressing the essential nature of something; a product of defining… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

His definition of "all men" did not include Black folks. But the vast maj of white people here at the time shared the view, and slavery was still legal in England, and there was no prohibition on the slave trade.

But if 1619 or anyone wants to argue schools should teach the fact that the DI and Jefferson didn't think Blacks were human beings …. they'd be correct.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm an observant person that has a very good memory and from what I remember about what you write is pure pro leftism

And I care about what you think?

Are you the sock for the dead weed?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Left WROTE The Declaration of Independence

I would largely agree with that, however, the "left" of those days has little in common with any of you.

How much do people of those times have in common with people of today?

A liberal is still a liberal
They look at the challenges of their time and try to improve them

Those liberals believed in limited government involvement in private lives
You leftists can't do that