Both are wrong

[pknopp]

Unlimited campaign spending is anti-democratic.

The two parties will likely spend over a billion dollars each on the election. All regulated and legal like.

No one will suggest we change that.

 

[sparky]

Off-shoring, Business Visas, Trespassers, millions lost Healthcare coverage due to layoffs.
It was a good time to be a big shot at a corporation.
Of course, no one noticed until the Housing Crash.

How does this show greater influence from Wall Street over the government? Much of the financial industry ran amuck and government agencies like the FDIC failed to do due diligence, but none of that shows influence over the government.

Because that's not what happened.
I know dozens of Mortgage Bankers and Brokers and the software provided by the Feds rejected applications left and right.
The Lenders Rubber Stamped left and right.
In fact, I was out of work for 3 years and thousands in debt and was Rubber Stamped a 600,000K Home Equity Loan that I refused to take.
I am no more of an advocate for Government intervention than anyone else.
But I put the blame solely on Wall Street for the bull crap that went down.
And my friends in the business agree with me.

Both the banks and the government screwed up but I have not seen any evidence Wall Street's influence over government in this crisis.

That's because it didn't make the news; you have to talk to people.

If none of this made the news, then where did the people you talked to get their information? If fact, it was all in the news and since that time several books have been written explaining the bizarre sequence of events that led to the financial crisis and the near collapse of the financial industry; all of them blame various actors in the financial industry either for stupidity or corruption, but none of them have pointed out any specific actions taken by the President or Congress that caused the crisis.

It did make the news, but was buried under pages and pages of oval office drama
The '08 crash was a direct result of Glass Steagal being rescinded , which was our fractional banking systems 'leash'

It took a while for that bubble to grow , and when it burst the very same advocates of it were put in place to investigate, and make public their opinions aka> banking commission

>>>>

As most Americans do not understand our monetary system in the first place , foisting it's intricacies upon us all in packaged bureaucracy gave us the appearance of legislative restraints

Yet the fact that the perps were greased via quantitative sleazing here, and actually jailed in Iceland speaks volumes

All for the same reason why QE4 now is the most downplayed fiscal debauchery to never make front page news, while the whole Pelosi/Trump dog pony show is media priority

~S~

 

[sparky]

How does this show greater influence from Wall Street over the government? Much of the financial industry ran amuck and government agencies like the FDIC failed to do due diligence, but none of that shows influence over the government.

Because that's not what happened.
I know dozens of Mortgage Bankers and Brokers and the software provided by the Feds rejected applications left and right.
The Lenders Rubber Stamped left and right.
In fact, I was out of work for 3 years and thousands in debt and was Rubber Stamped a 600,000K Home Equity Loan that I refused to take.
I am no more of an advocate for Government intervention than anyone else.
But I put the blame solely on Wall Street for the bull crap that went down.
And my friends in the business agree with me.

Both the banks and the government screwed up but I have not seen any evidence Wall Street's influence over government in this crisis.

That's because it didn't make the news; you have to talk to people.

If none of this made the news, then where did the people you talked to get their information? If fact, it was all in the news and since that time several books have been written explaining the bizarre sequence of events that led to the financial crisis and the near collapse of the financial industry; all of them blame various actors in the financial industry either for stupidity or corruption, but none of them have pointed out any specific actions taken by the President or Congress that caused the crisis.

Did you miss the part where I personally know dozens of Mortgage Bankers and Brokers across the US.?
I admit it's due to the Jew Connection.
We have our own Facebook Group where you have to provide the name of your Congregation's Rabbi before you're allowed into the group.
The Rabbi has to confirm you're a member of the Tribe.

I didn't want to go there, but it's not too hard to do Indeep....i'l politely claim these the globalists that are of influence levels the normal voter will never achieve...
~S~

 

[sparky]

The financial crisis had left banks loaded down with worthless securities and that meant they had much less cash available for loans.

Assuming said worthlessness was a direct manifestation of legislation that allowed the creation of valuation out of THIN AIR Mr Time

~S~

 

[Indeependent]

Because that's not what happened.
I know dozens of Mortgage Bankers and Brokers and the software provided by the Feds rejected applications left and right.
The Lenders Rubber Stamped left and right.
In fact, I was out of work for 3 years and thousands in debt and was Rubber Stamped a 600,000K Home Equity Loan that I refused to take.
I am no more of an advocate for Government intervention than anyone else.
But I put the blame solely on Wall Street for the bull crap that went down.
And my friends in the business agree with me.

Both the banks and the government screwed up but I have not seen any evidence Wall Street's influence over government in this crisis.

That's because it didn't make the news; you have to talk to people.

If none of this made the news, then where did the people you talked to get their information? If fact, it was all in the news and since that time several books have been written explaining the bizarre sequence of events that led to the financial crisis and the near collapse of the financial industry; all of them blame various actors in the financial industry either for stupidity or corruption, but none of them have pointed out any specific actions taken by the President or Congress that caused the crisis.

Did you miss the part where I personally know dozens of Mortgage Bankers and Brokers across the US.?
I admit it's due to the Jew Connection.
We have our own Facebook Group where you have to provide the name of your Congregation's Rabbi before you're allowed into the group.
The Rabbi has to confirm you're a member of the Tribe.

I didn't want to go there, but it's not too hard to do Indeep....i'l politely claim these the globalists that are of influence levels the normal voter will never achieve...
~S~

I worked on Wall Street for 16 years; they run everything and look at us like we’re worker ants.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I didn't see the Democrat ire at the use of money by unions.

McCain/Feingold put restrictions on unions also.

Can you be this gullible???

1. Soros money supported and catalyzed theMcCain-Feingold Act, which banned ‘soft money,’ stripping the two major parties of their financial base. This allowed Soros to create a “Shadow Party,” designed to funnel massive amounts of capital into organizations that would assume the role that the political parties traditionally played.
   1. A 527 group is a private, tax-exempt political organization set up under Section 527 of the U.S. tax code. Such groups have been around for years but never took center stage until 2004, when they became major players. That's because McCain-Feingold shut the door on unlimited contributions (so-called "soft money") to political parties, so that many of the big-dollar donations began flowing to 527 groups instead. McCain-Feingold at Rest
2. The Shadow Party was born July 17, 2003, at Soros’s estate. It created the largest and most powerful juggernaut in American history. Present were Madeleine Albright, John Podesta, John Pope (director of the Sierra Club), Andy Stern (SEIU), among others. The basic structure of the Shadow Party was a network of seven 527 organizations.
   1. “… the network of nonprofit activist groups organized by George Soros and others to mobilize resources -- money, get-outthe-vote drives, campaign advertising and policy initiatives -- to elect Democratic candidates and guide the Democratic Party towards the left. The Internet fund-raising operation MoveOn.org is a key component. The Shadow Party in this sense was conceived and organized principally by Soros, Hillary Clinton and Harold Ickes. Its efforts are amplified by, and coordinated with, key government unions and the activist groups associated with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). The key organizers of these groups are veterans of the Sixties left.” http://www.churchmilitant.tv/cia/02fake/102.pdf
3. One part, called “America Votes” was referred to by one of its staffers as a “monster coalition” coordinating all of the left-wing grassroots groups including ACORN, Planned Parenthoood Action Fund, Sierra Club and the American Federation of Teachers and the SEIU. Soros contributed $23,700,000 in 2004.

As of 2004, an alphabetical list of Shadow Party groups included the following: Air America

Radio; America Coming Together; America Votes; American Constitution Society; American

Federation of Labor - Congress of Industrial Organizations; American Federation of State, County and

Municipal Employees; American Federation of Teachers; Anshell Media; Association of Community

Organizations for Reform Now; Association of Trial Lawyers of America; Band of Progressives; Brady

Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence; Campaign for a Progressive Future; Campaign for America's

Future; Center for American Progress; Clean Water Action; Communication Workers of America; The

Constitution Project; DASH PAC; Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund; Democracy for America;

Democratic Governors Associations; Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee; Democratic

Senatorial Campaign Committee; Dog Eat Dog Films; EMILY's List; Environment

2004; Gore/Lieberman Recount Committee; Hotel Employees & Restaurant Employees International

Union; the Human Rights Campaign; INdTV; International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers; Joint

Victory Campaign 2004; Laborers International Union of North American; League of Conservation

Voters; New Democrat Network; The Media Fund; Media Matters for America; Million Mom March;

Moving America Forward; MoveOn.org; Music for America; National Association for the

Advancement of Colored People; NARAL Pro-Choice America; National Education Association;

National Grassroots Alliance; National Jewish Democratic Council; National Treasury Employees

Union; New American Optimists; New Democrat Network; Partnership for America's Families; People for the American Way; Phoenix Group; Planned Parenthood; Pro-Choice Vote; Service Employees

International Union; Sheet Metal Workers International Association; Sierra Club; The Thunder Road

Group; United Food & Commercial Workers Union; United Progressive Alliance; USAction; Vagina

Votes; Voices for Working Families; Vote for Change; Young Voter Alliance; and 21st Century

Democrats.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/cia/02fake/102.pdf

Church militant? Really?

If you have a long list of names how exactly are they shadow groups?

When you're as dumb as you are, I suppose you can't deny the facts, so complain about the source.


Open a book, dope.

You failed to answer my question.

I put you in your place.

 

[MisterBeale]

Both the banks and the government screwed up but I have not seen any evidence Wall Street's influence over government in this crisis.

That's because it didn't make the news; you have to talk to people.

If none of this made the news, then where did the people you talked to get their information? If fact, it was all in the news and since that time several books have been written explaining the bizarre sequence of events that led to the financial crisis and the near collapse of the financial industry; all of them blame various actors in the financial industry either for stupidity or corruption, but none of them have pointed out any specific actions taken by the President or Congress that caused the crisis.

Did you miss the part where I personally know dozens of Mortgage Bankers and Brokers across the US.?
I admit it's due to the Jew Connection.
We have our own Facebook Group where you have to provide the name of your Congregation's Rabbi before you're allowed into the group.
The Rabbi has to confirm you're a member of the Tribe.

I didn't want to go there, but it's not too hard to do Indeep....i'l politely claim these the globalists that are of influence levels the normal voter will never achieve...
~S~

I worked on Wall Street for 16 years; they run everything and look at us like we’re worker ants.

 

[MisterBeale]

Rights is rights. They apply to all.

Nope, sorry, these organizations, in no way should be allowed to have the same rights as sovereign citizens. Fuck the elites, fuck Soros and Koch. Fuck them to hell.

Agreed, but if you fuck with their rights as sovereign citizens to act collectively, you invite others to fuck with your rights.

The Bill of Rights says nothing about applying rights to organizations.

It says nothing about applying person-hood to corporate entities or collective entities.

Again, of what are such entities comprised?

Fallacy of composition - Wikipedia

The owners and decision makers comprise the entity. A majority of shareholders may remove them should there be a problem.

. . . a problem for whom?

 

[MisterBeale]

The U.S. has a representative government, and it is clear who is represented. That is not hidden and is not open to debate. How to return the representation to how it was intended is the only question.

Before electronic media, privately funded campaigns were fine.

But if you look at the research on how effective electronic media is at completely programming the minds of the masses? The research on this is pretty clear what needs to be done, equal access for all candidates in the news media and. . . .


Publicly funded elections - Wikipedia

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

They choose to.

 

[Billiejeens]

This, is the underlying problem, and the root of the corruption.

No the underlying problem and the root of corruption is;

Morally bankrupt empty suits are the cause of corruption regardless of the arena. Putting it on a national stage merely publicly exemplifies it.

Why is it not morally bankrupt people like you?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

They choose to.

You have nothing to back that up, of course, so you just spout stuff. Got it.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

They choose to.

You have nothing to back that up, of course, so you just spout stuff. Got it.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

They choose to.

You have nothing to back that up, of course, so you just spout stuff. Got it.

Laugh away. Stupid people do that when they have nothing else of substance to say. You don't even seem to know how corporations work. CU allows for political biases of entire corporations to be controlled by shareholders, a small minority group of people. So, unless you poll every single employee of said corporation, you can't tell me anything about their collective political choice. This is common sense. Again, you just spout shit.

 

[justoffal]

All citizens are "special interests" and have the constitutional right to free speech and to contribute to their causes.

That groups of citizens choose to exercise these rights in a collective manner is supported by the same constitutional amendment.

Foreign contributions are a separate issue, and responsibility for accepting such contributions should sit solely with the candidate receiving them.

True, but corporations should not be considered citizens in regard to the Bill of Rights.

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Never thought I would see the day when you would be defending the nefarious actions of those who work in the dark, under the name of "collectivism."



nice.

Nope, sorry, these organizations, in no way should be allowed to have the same rights as sovereign citizens. Fuck the elites, fuck Soros and Koch. Fuck them to hell.

We need to know who they are, what they do, and have their names publicized. Each. And. Every. One.

This, is the underlying problem, and the root of the corruption.

No the underlying problem and the root of corruption is;

Morally bankrupt empty suits are the cause of corruption regardless of the arena. Putting it on a national stage merely publicly exemplifies it.

Foreign nations don't give a shit. They will be purposely "morally bankrupt."

Under this decision, you can hide the origin of the contribution.

Your understanding of this decision really needs work man.

Go back to university.

Hell. . . Billy thinks it was an Amendment, not a SCOTUS ruling? wtf?! Do you folks even know what you are talking about?


This decision benefited Obama, Clinton and the swamp.

". . . .However, a single individual or group can create both types of entity and combine their powers, making it difficult to trace the original source of funds.[32][33] ProPublica explains: "Say some like-minded people form both a Super-PAC and a nonprofit 501(c)(4). Corporations and individuals could then donate as much as they want to the nonprofit, which isn't required to publicly disclose funders. The nonprofit could then donate as much as it wanted to the Super-PAC, which lists the nonprofit's donation but not the original contributors."[32] In at least one high-profile case, a donor to a super PAC kept his name hidden by using an LLC formed for the purpose of hiding their personal name.[34] One super PAC, that originally listed a $250,000 donation from an LLC that no one could find, led to a subsequent filing where the previously "secret donors" were revealed.[35]

During the 2016 election cycle, "dark money" contributions via shell LLCs became increasingly common.[36] The Associated Press, Center for Public Integrity, and Sunlight Foundation all "flagged dozens of donations of anywhere from $50,000 to $1 million routed through non-disclosing LLCs to super PACs" backing various presidential candidates, including Marco Rubio, Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Jeb Bush, and Carly Fiorina.[36]. . . . "
Dark money - Wikipedia

I would have more sympathy for your position if I thought you were actually looking for clean politics. What always appears in the underpinning of such an objective is the non-stop drive to control the actions and even the thoughts of other people without their consent. By your reasoning no group activity would be legal. It would be illegal for two people to help each other out on election day cutting lawns if they were both voting for the same candidate. I'm sorry no.... You like everyone else will have to offer your ideas to the public who will then decide whether or not they will support them. Intimidation such as you seek has no place in the process.

Jo

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

They choose to.

You have nothing to back that up, of course, so you just spout stuff. Got it.

Laugh away. Stupid people do that when they have nothing else of substance to say. You don't even seem to know how corporations work. CU allows for political biases of entire corporations to be controlled by shareholders, a small minority group of people. So, unless you poll every single employee of said corporation, you can't tell me anything about their collective political choice. This is common sense. Again, you just spout shit.

 

[whitehall]

Funny how nobody complained when Hillary was getting a quarter of a mil each for a couple of mystery speeches to Wall Street bankers. Which is better, that kind of corruption or above board accountable donations from corporations?

 

[justoffal]

They are by definition a collection of citizens, exercising individual rights collectively.

Well, that's backwards. They can exercise their individual rights individually. No need to do it collectively.

They choose to.

You have nothing to back that up, of course, so you just spout stuff. Got it.

Laugh away. Stupid people do that when they have nothing else of substance to say. You don't even seem to know how corporations work. CU allows for political biases of entire corporations to be controlled by shareholders, a small minority group of people. So, unless you poll every single employee of said corporation, you can't tell me anything about their collective political choice. This is common sense. Again, you just spout shit.

Bullshit....
Every organization that has membership generally has a theme and an identity.
Your proposal is positively stalinist. It seeks to examine each individual's thoughts and invade their privacy without their consent. Why do you people thrive on witch-hunts? This kind of thinking is born of the arrogance that only your viewpoint could possibly be correct and that all others must be investigated to the point where they are overturned.

Jo

 

[JLW]

Obama was right, Alito was wrong: Citizens United has corrupted American politics

Ten years ago this week, a narrow majority of the Supreme Court overturned a century of campaign finance law, giving wealthy donors and corporations nearly unlimited ability to influence our elections. In his State of the Union address a week later, President Barack Obama said the controversial Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision “will open the floodgates for special interests — including foreign corporations — to spend without limit in our elections.” Justice Samuel Alito famously shook his head, mouthing “not true.”

A decade later, it’s clear that President Obama was right and Justice Alito was wrong. With its decision, the court threw out restrictions on corporate and union election spending, narrowed the legal definition of “corruption” and set the stage for an influx of undisclosed dark money spending on our elections.

Morally bankrupt empty suits are the cause of corruption regardless of the arena. Putting it on a national stage merely publicly exemplifies it.

You are right on this issue. Citizens United is the Dred Scott case of our time. Wrongly decided that case opened up the floodgates to unlimited dark money into our political system. It needs to be reversed. Given the make up of the Supreme Court the possibility of a reversal is remote at best since the case was decided by conservative justices. We are in for years of dark money in our political process and there is not much we can do about it.