Border Policy

[William Joyce]

Well, it appears some sense is getting through.

How about this one for the neocons...

Blacks are against America. It's full of racist whites. OK, fine.

So why do black Africans try to come here? Still? Today? To this "racist" place where the majority whites once enslaved blacks?

A million Joyce bucks for someone who can give an HONEST answer!

 

[krisy]

William Joyce...I was really speaking in regards to potential terrorists and any threat to our country. There are people that are good people that want to live here,and I don't blame them..they should do it right though.

 

[William Joyce]

OK.

So what's wrong with their home countries?

And can you name a non-white country that whites seek to immigrate to? Anywhere on the planet?

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by nycflasher
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by pegwinn NYC's COMMENTS ARE IN GREEN, THEN PHIL RE-REPLIES IN RED
...Here's the rational approach that addresses border concerns in light of the new reality.

UNO: All illegals found are deported. Or imprisoned at hard labor if we cannot establish citizenship.
-----Um, deported yes. Forced hard labor? Miss the days of slavery, do ya?Now where did you read the word slavery. After they are apprehended, and tried, and found guilty of trespassing or whatever. Five years at hard labor to pay back all the illegal bennies they already got. Sends a message doncha think.
DOS: Everyone in USA (thats you and me also) gets an ID Card. On this ID Card you have a legible print that is registered with the FBI and what the hell, how about a DNA sample. The card is gonna ID you as a Citizen, or a Legal Alien Resident who is tracking to become a citizen. Or a tourist.
]-----What's wrong with the ID I have in my pocket? Not sure about the whole print and DNA thing. The Id IN YOUR POCKET IS MINE. For about 80.00 I can get your basic state issued drivers license made. I am talking about a tamper proof smart card. Look at the ID cards issued to the active duty military now. Why? Positive Id. In todays day and age, there should be no reason to not be able to ID someone. If you get blown up in a building, a federal respository of DNA will assure your loved ones of closure.
TRES: No Card, No services, No schools, No public nada, everything is cash and carry.
-----Dunno. Seems to make sense. I'm not quite sure why illegals get some of the benefits they do now.
QUATRO: If you are not a citizen and your kid is born here, it aint a citizen. If you become a naturalized citizen then your kid gets retroed.
-----Why do people refer to children as "it"? Guess I don't have a problem with this one. Except, it seems to make as much sense to me that ANYONE born on American soil is Amercan by definition. Which is perhaps why that's the way it is on the books right now.I use "it" as a keyboard shortcut. But, in the interest of peace on our board, I shall now use he/she. My concern is that illegals do the nasty on the other side and pop over here in order to pop little he/she out. Then, because little he/she is legally a citizen, mop (that is mom and pop, in kb shortcuts) gets to hang out. This rule means that if mop gets naturalized, then the child (he/she) is officially a "natural born" citizen. Did that make sense?
This is a nation of immigrants. If you close the borders, stop immigration etc, and all that, we are one step closer to renaming ourselves USSR instead of USA. I wish that we still lived in the 1800's (no immigration rules) with a 21st century benifits (medicine, free love, cars, inexpensive beer) But, we can no longer allow unrestricted and uniformed immigration. Every "body" in the good ol USA at a minimum needs to be documented.
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[nycflasher]

Originally posted by krisy
I agree on this one jeff. This is one issue(and there aren't many) that I feel GW is a little too loose on. One would have thought after 9-11 that are borders would be pretty tightly sealed.I understand that some think it is better for the economy to have them open,but I feel our safety is more important.

So we can be safe from terrorism... with a collapsed economy?
I don't think that makes sense.
It still wouldn't guarantee our safety. If we close our borders and pull out of the Arab world, the terrorists win.
IMO.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by William Joyce
Well, it appears some sense is getting through.

How about this one for the neocons...

Blacks are against America. It's full of racist whites. OK, fine.

So why do black Africans try to come here? Still? Today? To this "racist" place where the majority whites once enslaved blacks?

A million Joyce bucks for someone who can give an HONEST answer!

Joyce. Why don't you just stop trying?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by William Joyce
OK.

So what's wrong with their home countries?

And can you name a non-white country that whites seek to immigrate to? Anywhere on the planet?

Well actually, Joyce, many whites move to countries and continents such as Mexico, South America, Saudi(not for long)...

Pay me, bitch.

 

[William Joyce]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Well actually, Joyce, many whites move to countries and continents such as Mexico, South America, Saudi(not for long)...

Yes, and they tend to lose their heads there.

"If we close our borders and pull out of the Arab world, the terrorists win.
IMO"

Or, AMERICA wins. But I don't think you much like that old girl, now do you, my commie neocon friend?

 

[nycflasher]

Phil, a.k.a. pegwinn, nice to get your first name I'm James...

Yes, I think forcing someone into 5 years of hard labor for not being able to come up with a greencard is damn close to slavery!

I agree that an ID not easily copied is a good idea. In fact, I often wonder, why in this day and age they are still easily counterfeited. I do remember that during the Rodney King riots the DMV was broken into in LA and something like 200,000 blanks were stolen. My friend lived in LA and sad you could get them on the street for just that, 80 bucks. What's with the Military ID that is so "smart"?

I was kidding about "it" but I think you get my point.
Yes, I see your point on the MOP thing. Maybe a child should have to do a bit more than be born here to be made a citizen. Liek have parents who are(or become) citizens. Maybe we can give them partial status just because they were born here? Hell, I dunno. Maybe you're right.

re: "Every "body" in the good ol USA at a minimum needs to be documented."
-----Agreed. But what do we do then if we discover an undocumented person? Your going to have to do better to convince me that they "deserve" 5 years of hard labor. Maybe we can just brand them on their forehead: ARAB or MEXICAN.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by William Joyce
Yes, and they tend to lose their heads there.

"If we close our borders and pull out of the Arab world, the terrorists win.
IMO"

Or, AMERICA wins. But I don't think you much like that old girl, now do you, my commie neocon friend?

a) you won't catch me anywhere near the House of Saud
b) America isn't winning anything anytime soon, if ya know what I mean. We're dug in good. But I guarantee you we LOSE if we make rash decisions like shutting our borders COMPLETELY.
c) In fact, I all but guarantee you it won't happen.
d)pay me, bitch!
e) go away, you're a nuisance.

 

[krisy]

Originally posted by nycflasher
So we can be safe from terrorism... with a collapsed economy?
I don't think that makes sense.
It still wouldn't guarantee our safety. If we close our borders and pull out of the Arab world, the terrorists win.
IMO.

Would you rather be poor or dead? And is there proof of how they help our economy? How do illegals help if at all? I imagine there are aspectsof immigrants or even illegal immigrants coming here that hurt our economy. I would like to see proof that they really help it. I find it hard to believe that our economy would "collapse".

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Phil, a.k.a. pegwinn, nice to get your first name I'm James...Whazzup James

Yes, I think forcing someone into 5 years of hard labor for not being able to come up with a greencard is damn close to slavery!
Guess we can agree to disagree on that. I am all for deporting them, but who pays the cost?
I agree that an ID not easily copied is a good idea. In fact, I often wonder, why in this day and age they are still easily counterfeited. I do remember that during the Rodney King riots the DMV was broken into in LA and something like 200,000 blanks were stolen. My friend lived in LA and sad you could get them on the street for just that, 80 bucks. What's with the Military ID that is so "smart"? Hard plastic, digital photo laser engraved on the plastic, 4k of hard coded chip memory, two different bar codes and a mag strip. Not cheap (buck a piece last I heard) but real hard to counterfeit.

I was kidding about "it" but I think you get my point.
Yes, I see your point on the MOP thing. Maybe a child should have to do a bit more than be born here to be made a citizen. Liek have parents who are(or become) citizens. Maybe we can give them partial status just because they were born here? Hell, I dunno. Maybe you're right.

re: "Every "body" in the good ol USA at a minimum needs to be documented."
-----Agreed. But what do we do then if we discover an undocumented person? Your going to have to do better to convince me that they "deserve" 5 years of hard labor. Maybe we can just brand them on their forehead: ARAB or MEXICAN.

We don't need to brand em. A bright red indelible marker will do. Ok, what do we do? Deport them? If they broke our law, why can't we prosecute them and max em out?:ali:

 

[Captain_Steel]

Originally posted by HGROKIT
It's your thread, what do you think it should be. Let's start there!

*EDIT*
Hey you all, I did not see that a poll was there when I posted this response - really.

I think we should have closed borders. For our neighbors to the north and south (and with neighbors like those who needs enemies), they can get a special Visa on their passports - oops, I mean we cazn begin making them have passports to enter.

For everyone else, no passport/visa no enter - real simple.

However, all of that will be useless unless a methodology is devised to accurately track individuals and throw them out if they violate law or documetns expire.

Sorry, I should've responded earlier. I believe the borders should be highly regulated. Like, whatever the number that's coming across now, legally, should be cut down by about 75%. I'll allow that amount just to help us fill our menial laborer positions. And of course NO illegals coming across.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by nycflasher
So you would shoot a poor Mexican trying to sneak across the border to make a buck?
Nice.

Well, I wouldn't shoot to kill, and I would certainly have the troops make an attempt to corral/arrest any illegal immigrants first. But if an illegal is trying to make a run for it, yeah, shoot him in the leg and dump him back on the other side of the border. That will give the illegals something to think about before they try crossing again.

And if the "poor Mexican" wants a buck, he can get a work visa and come over legally.

 

[dilloduck]

I've been searching like hell to find a quote I heard once that is starting to echo in my mind. ( hollow I know). It goes something like--"governments tend to fail from an excess of its basic tenets and principals". An excess of openness and freedoms DOES seem to be causing America some dilemmas right now and finding the right balance seems to be neglected in favor of two sides fighting for the extemes. I think this thread as well as the ID thread are good examples of this. Aristotles' "golden mean" sounds mighty good sometimes.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Here's a little article I found that relates to this:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20040624-9999-1m24border.html

Patrols for illegal immigrants get criticism




By Gregory Alan Gross
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
June 24, 2004

Immigrant and Latino activists yesterday denounced the Border Patrol's recent "roving patrols" targeting illegal immigrants, saying they are creating a climate of fear in Latino neighborhoods.

The activists held a news conference yesterday at Christ the King Catholic Church in Logan Heights to lash out at the operations.

"We believe this is an issue of racial profiling and constitutes a gross violation of constitutional and civil liberties," said Christian Ramirez of the American Friends Service Committee.

The Border Patrol began sending this month what it described as a "roving patrol" of a dozen agents into North County, as well as neighboring counties in Southern California, to round up suspected illegal immigrants.

The agency disputes characterizations of the patrols as "sweeps," saying it bases the operations on specific intelligence. To date, nearly 500 illegal immigrants have been picked up, the Border Patrol said.

"We're being absolutely inundated with e-mails throwing accolades at the Border Patrol, things like, 'Thank you for enforcing the law,' " Border Patrol spokesman Steve McPartland said. "The agents are thrilled. We have very strong public support."

Mike Wilzoch of the Service Employees International Union questioned the rationale behind the raids in light of Border Patrol claims that they originated from security concerns.

Wilzoch cited Border Patrol figures showing that agents had stopped more than 10,000 people in the past three months to check their identification status and arrested nearly 500 as illegal immigrants without finding any who posed a security threat or were wanted for serious crimes.

"If we in fact have a security threat in this country . . . why are we directing resources and people toward efforts that produce nothing?" Wilzoch asked.

Marta Ayala of Barrio Logan was one of several speakers who called on residents of predominantly Latino neighborhoods to organize against the Border Patrol operations, saying the patrols are making people afraid to leave their homes.

"We are not invaders. We are not criminals. We are not terrorists," she said. "We are defending our dignity."

McPartland said the roving patrols are "a tactic the Border Patrol has used over decades of work," and that the only shocking aspect is that agents are suddenly showing up in areas where they haven't been seen in months or years.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Here's a little article I found that relates to this:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20040624-9999-1m24border.html

Patrols for illegal immigrants get criticism




By Gregory Alan Gross
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
June 24, 2004

Immigrant and Latino activists yesterday denounced the Border Patrol's recent "roving patrols" targeting illegal immigrants, saying they are creating a climate of fear in Latino neighborhoods.

The activists held a news conference yesterday at Christ the King Catholic Church in Logan Heights to lash out at the operations.

"We believe this is an issue of racial profiling and constitutes a gross violation of constitutional and civil liberties," said Christian Ramirez of the American Friends Service Committee.

The Border Patrol began sending this month what it described as a "roving patrol" of a dozen agents into North County, as well as neighboring counties in Southern California, to round up suspected illegal immigrants.

The agency disputes characterizations of the patrols as "sweeps," saying it bases the operations on specific intelligence. To date, nearly 500 illegal immigrants have been picked up, the Border Patrol said.

"We're being absolutely inundated with e-mails throwing accolades at the Border Patrol, things like, 'Thank you for enforcing the law,' " Border Patrol spokesman Steve McPartland said. "The agents are thrilled. We have very strong public support."

Mike Wilzoch of the Service Employees International Union questioned the rationale behind the raids in light of Border Patrol claims that they originated from security concerns.

Wilzoch cited Border Patrol figures showing that agents had stopped more than 10,000 people in the past three months to check their identification status and arrested nearly 500 as illegal immigrants without finding any who posed a security threat or were wanted for serious crimes.

"If we in fact have a security threat in this country . . . why are we directing resources and people toward efforts that produce nothing?" Wilzoch asked.

Marta Ayala of Barrio Logan was one of several speakers who called on residents of predominantly Latino neighborhoods to organize against the Border Patrol operations, saying the patrols are making people afraid to leave their homes.

"We are not invaders. We are not criminals. We are not terrorists," she said. "We are defending our dignity."

McPartland said the roving patrols are "a tactic the Border Patrol has used over decades of work," and that the only shocking aspect is that agents are suddenly showing up in areas where they haven't been seen in months or years.

People who do illegal things and support illegal things SHOULD feel afraid. Change law enforcement so they will feel safer?? please.

 

[Captain_Steel]

Yeah, there's been alot of this complaining from hispanic activist groups about the border patrol/INS doing there jobs. But they can't argue with the law. Illegal means illegal. Even if we have to bust into their house and drag them out in front of their kids, it's their damn fault for commiting the crime in the first place.

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Well, I wouldn't shoot to kill, and I would certainly have the troops make an attempt to corral/arrest any illegal immigrants first. But if an illegal is trying to make a run for it, yeah, shoot him in the leg and dump him back on the other side of the border. That will give the illegals something to think about before they try crossing again.

And if the "poor Mexican" wants a buck, he can get a work visa and come over legally.

If you dont shoot to kill, dont arm the guards. Marines aint taught how to warning shots.

 

[William Joyce]

Best immigration reform site on the Web:

vdare.com