Blue on Blue fire claims another life.

[SavannahMann]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

I remember the Blue Bloods episode when Danny shoots another cop. Henry says to Jamie that when he is out there on the street, he can't be thinking about other things and that doing his job had to be the top priority if it isn't the only one on the list. Frank then came in and backed up his dad's lesson by saying this: "Its better to be judged by twelve instead of being carried by six."

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. By the way, the season one closer is when the Reagan family finds out what really happened with Joe. Sometimes cops have no other choice, but to do whatever it is that they end up having to do.

 

[SavannahMann]

I remember the Blue Bloods episode when Danny shoots another cop. Henry says to Jamie that when he is out there on the street, he can't be thinking about other things and that doing his job had to be the top priority if it isn't the only one on the list. Frank then came in and backed up his dad's lesson by saying this: "Its better to be judged by twelve instead of being carried by six."

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. By the way, the season one closer is when the Reagan family finds out what really happened with Joe. Sometimes cops have no other choice, but to do whatever it is that they end up having to do.

If you do not have a clear shot at your target. Hold your fire. Do not shoot.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ Do keep in mind that who cops are really pointing their guns at are not going to have such a considerateness on their minds, therefore any hostages who are in the line of fire may only end up being shot at anyways.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. I can still see the girl who is in the line of fire at the end of the first Lethal Weapon film. She was lucky that she lived to tell about it, of course that was just a movie and not real life.

 

[Anathema]

THIS is the reason why ANY suspect who runs or resists should be shot immediately... without officers going hands-in. If they just shot this mofo in the back as he ran, this officer would still be alive.

 

[SavannahMann]

^^^ Do keep in mind that who cops are really pointing their guns at are not going to have such a considerateness on their minds, therefore any hostages who are in the line of fire may only end up being shot at anyways.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. I can still see the girl who is in the line of fire at the end of the first Lethal Weapon film. She was lucky that she lived to tell about it, of course that was just a movie and not real life.

Yes it was a movie. But in real life, if you don’t have the shot, just don’t take it.

600 police gunshots during Stockton bank robbery were 'excessive,' report says

That is perhaps the worst example, but there are many many more.



There are rules that shooters follow. Being certain of your target is one of them. I would be more forgiving if during a shootout someone ran between the battling forces. I am less forgiving. Far less forgiving, for a situation when you KNOW the friendly is in the way.

You don’t have to shoot. You don’t have to. There were other cops there, and they could have jumped in and wrestled control of the suspect. There were other cops there, if one did not have a clear shot, one of the others could have, or could have moved to take the safer shot.

I am not taking issue with the idea that the baddie had to be shot. I am taking issue with the piss poor performance of people who are trained. Who can do better. But don’t.

In Hollywood, the hero of the movie is an expert shot that would put Wild Bill Hickok to shame. In real life, most people including cops, are lucky to get it on the paper, especially the way that cops train. Shoot first, shoot fast, and shoot often. If Lethal Weapon was real life, they would have shot the girl more than the baddies. That is the usual outcome, sad as it is to say it.

 

[SavannahMann]

THIS is the reason why ANY suspect who runs or resists should be shot immediately... without officers going hands-in. If they just shot this mofo in the back as he ran, this officer would still be alive.

Nonsense. Four cops, one baddie, and only one was wrestling with the baddie. Why were the other heroes holding back?

During the Rodney King trial, the Police swore that they were using the “Swarm Technique” which would have multiple officers essentially dogpile the suspect and each one struggle to get ahold of one limb. This would bring the suspect into custody, unless in your fevered imagination the baddie is so powerful that he can overwhelm four or more cops. If so, what makes you think a gun is going to stop this raging bull?

Rodney King - Wikipedia

The police claimed to be using the Swarm Technique then, and weren’t. So this technique had been around for more than two decades, and why isn’t it used? Why wasn’t it used before the baddie went for his gun? Why wasn’t it used immediately?

Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of fools would advocate the crap you are usually calling for.

 

[Anathema]

[QUOTE="SavannahMann, post: 23675818, member: 60283]Nonsense. Four cops, one baddie, and only one was wrestling with the baddie. Why were the other heroes holding back?

During the Rodney King trial, the Police swore that they were using the “Swarm Technique” which would have multiple officers essentially dogpile the suspect and each one struggle to get ahold of one limb. This would bring the suspect into custody, unless in your fevered imagination the baddie is so powerful that he can overwhelm four or more cops. If so, what makes you think a gun is going to stop this raging bull?

Rodney King - Wikipedia

The police claimed to be using the Swarm Technique then, and weren’t. So this technique had been around for more than two decades, and why isn’t it used? Why wasn’t it used before the baddie went for his gun? Why wasn’t it used immediately?

Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of fools would advocate the crap you are usually calling for.[/QUOTE]

The entire idea of officers having to go hands-on with a suspect to do anything other than cuff them is ludicrous. That’s a recipe for officers getting injured in one way or another. Additionally, I consider resisting/flight to be an admission of guilt. Swarm Technique (or any other hands on technique) Puts officers in danger unnecessarily.

 

[SavannahMann]

[QUOTE="SavannahMann, post: 23675818, member: 60283]Nonsense. Four cops, one baddie, and only one was wrestling with the baddie. Why were the other heroes holding back?

During the Rodney King trial, the Police swore that they were using the “Swarm Technique” which would have multiple officers essentially dogpile the suspect and each one struggle to get ahold of one limb. This would bring the suspect into custody, unless in your fevered imagination the baddie is so powerful that he can overwhelm four or more cops. If so, what makes you think a gun is going to stop this raging bull?

Rodney King - Wikipedia

The police claimed to be using the Swarm Technique then, and weren’t. So this technique had been around for more than two decades, and why isn’t it used? Why wasn’t it used before the baddie went for his gun? Why wasn’t it used immediately?

Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of fools would advocate the crap you are usually calling for.

The entire idea of officers having to go hands-on with a suspect to do anything other than cuff them is ludicrous. That’s a recipe for officers getting injured in one way or another. Additionally, I consider resisting/flight to be an admission of guilt. Swarm Technique (or any other hands on technique) Puts officers in danger unnecessarily.[/QUOTE]

 

[Anathema]

View attachment 294978

Who is or has suggested thst LEOs want to be, or should have to be, heroes? Most I know just want to do their jobs, help the community, and go home to their family after the shift. It’s the growing presence of suspects who want to run, fight, or resist thst has created most of these problems.

 

[Jarlaxle]

View attachment 294978

Who is or has suggested thst LEOs want to be, or should have to be, heroes? Most I know just want to do their jobs, help the community, and go home to their family after the shift. It’s the growing presence of suspects who want to run, fight, or resist thst has created most of these problems.

They have.

Most are the scum of the earth, gangbangers with badges instead of facial tattoos.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

Maybe it's time to require cops carry only single-action revolvers. No more spray-and-pray.

 

[harmonica]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

..your title is all wrong, SMan...let me put what you really mean and say:
I AM PERFECT.....a thread by SMan
.SOB JESUS CHRIST hold crap!! again???!!!..another ''I am perfect --cops are shitheads'' thread.....???!!!!
..hey --wake up!!--the Gun Range is not REAL LIFE....nothing like dynamic situations dealing with irrational, dangerous, drugged up, etc jackasses.....
....AND---AND--you just contradicted yourself from another thread..before, you said the Army knew what they were doing and were BETTER than the cops...now you say the Army Fked up......

holy fk---get off your high horse and stop thinking you would be PERFECT at doing what cops do.....
..you are NOT perfect....you're a self righteous *******

 

[harmonica]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

.....we've been over this before and I've linked how the military has screwed up just as much, if not more, than cops do

 

[SavannahMann]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

..your title is all wrong, SMan...let me put what you really mean and say:
I AM PERFECT.....a thread by SMan
.SOB JESUS CHRIST hold crap!! again???!!!..another ''I am perfect --cops are shitheads'' thread.....???!!!!
..hey --wake up!!--the Gun Range is not REAL LIFE....nothing like dynamic situations dealing with irrational, dangerous, drugged up, etc jackasses.....
....AND---AND--you just contradicted yourself from another thread..before, you said the Army knew what they were doing and were BETTER than the cops...now you say the Army Fked up......

holy fk---get off your high horse and stop thinking you would be PERFECT at doing what cops do.....
..you are NOT perfect....you're a self righteous *******

Blue on Blue happens, and it is the responsibility of everyone involved to strive to keep it from happening. First is training. The soldier who fired and killed Tillman did not do what he was supposed to. He was firing when he was not supposed to. He was firing because his Squad Leader was firing. He did not know what he was firing at. That was a war zone, which is a little more understandable. Especially when you consider that the war zone has unknown numbers of hostile, trained, and equipped with automatic weapons.

This had nothing at all similar to that situation however. This was four cops, one baddie. They had him outnumbered. Four to one odds.

When airplanes crash, we watch as an in depth investigation takes the events apart second by second to find out everything that went wrong. To learn what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again, if possible. We do so knowing that we will never eliminate all airplane crashes, but we hope to reduce them to the lowest possible number, always striving for improvement.

Police don’t really do that. They kill an innocent, and shrug helplessly and say it’s a difficult job and who are you to question anything we do? Or they whip out the claim that any changes will result in more dead cops. Which is absolute bullshit. In this case, the cop died, not because of the actions of the baddie, but the actions of fellow cops.

The example I used in a reply was the California Bank Robbery in which six hundred rounds were fired by police. The reconstruction of the events showed that most cops who were shooting could not see the bad guys. They couldn’t even see them, but were shooting anyway. You are right, that isn’t like a gun range. The analogy would be if you went to a gun range, and started shooting in the parking lot. Of course you’re going to miss the target. That isn’t the actions of professionals, that is the actions of pathetic children who were firing rounds because they had no idea what they were doing.

Trigger happy cops killed a fellow officer. Will they be held accountable? No. Will they be subject to additional training? No. Will the policies change one damned bit to reflect their errors to try and prevent it from happening again? Nope. If anything the cops will swear that this proves that they have to show even less restraint. Shoot even earlier.

It was a pathetic performance, and it led to the death of another cop. Any other view is just smoke and mirrors trying to justify the indefensible.

 

[harmonica]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

..your title is all wrong, SMan...let me put what you really mean and say:
I AM PERFECT.....a thread by SMan
.SOB JESUS CHRIST hold crap!! again???!!!..another ''I am perfect --cops are shitheads'' thread.....???!!!!
..hey --wake up!!--the Gun Range is not REAL LIFE....nothing like dynamic situations dealing with irrational, dangerous, drugged up, etc jackasses.....
....AND---AND--you just contradicted yourself from another thread..before, you said the Army knew what they were doing and were BETTER than the cops...now you say the Army Fked up......

holy fk---get off your high horse and stop thinking you would be PERFECT at doing what cops do.....
..you are NOT perfect....you're a self righteous *******

Blue on Blue happens, and it is the responsibility of everyone involved to strive to keep it from happening. First is training. The soldier who fired and killed Tillman did not do what he was supposed to. He was firing when he was not supposed to. He was firing because his Squad Leader was firing. He did not know what he was firing at. That was a war zone, which is a little more understandable. Especially when you consider that the war zone has unknown numbers of hostile, trained, and equipped with automatic weapons.

This had nothing at all similar to that situation however. This was four cops, one baddie. They had him outnumbered. Four to one odds.

When airplanes crash, we watch as an in depth investigation takes the events apart second by second to find out everything that went wrong. To learn what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again, if possible. We do so knowing that we will never eliminate all airplane crashes, but we hope to reduce them to the lowest possible number, always striving for improvement.

Police don’t really do that. They kill an innocent, and shrug helplessly and say it’s a difficult job and who are you to question anything we do? Or they whip out the claim that any changes will result in more dead cops. Which is absolute bullshit. In this case, the cop died, not because of the actions of the baddie, but the actions of fellow cops.

The example I used in a reply was the California Bank Robbery in which six hundred rounds were fired by police. The reconstruction of the events showed that most cops who were shooting could not see the bad guys. They couldn’t even see them, but were shooting anyway. You are right, that isn’t like a gun range. The analogy would be if you went to a gun range, and started shooting in the parking lot. Of course you’re going to miss the target. That isn’t the actions of professionals, that is the actions of pathetic children who were firing rounds because they had no idea what they were doing.

Trigger happy cops killed a fellow officer. Will they be held accountable? No. Will they be subject to additional training? No. Will the policies change one damned bit to reflect their errors to try and prevent it from happening again? Nope. If anything the cops will swear that this proves that they have to show even less restraint. Shoot even earlier.

It was a pathetic performance, and it led to the death of another cop. Any other view is just smoke and mirrors trying to justify the indefensible.

I -SMan--am perfect--my dad taught me at the range/etc etc = bullshit
..you are saying and have said before I I I --SMan--am perfect..I would never make a mistake

 

[SavannahMann]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

..your title is all wrong, SMan...let me put what you really mean and say:
I AM PERFECT.....a thread by SMan
.SOB JESUS CHRIST hold crap!! again???!!!..another ''I am perfect --cops are shitheads'' thread.....???!!!!
..hey --wake up!!--the Gun Range is not REAL LIFE....nothing like dynamic situations dealing with irrational, dangerous, drugged up, etc jackasses.....
....AND---AND--you just contradicted yourself from another thread..before, you said the Army knew what they were doing and were BETTER than the cops...now you say the Army Fked up......

holy fk---get off your high horse and stop thinking you would be PERFECT at doing what cops do.....
..you are NOT perfect....you're a self righteous *******

Blue on Blue happens, and it is the responsibility of everyone involved to strive to keep it from happening. First is training. The soldier who fired and killed Tillman did not do what he was supposed to. He was firing when he was not supposed to. He was firing because his Squad Leader was firing. He did not know what he was firing at. That was a war zone, which is a little more understandable. Especially when you consider that the war zone has unknown numbers of hostile, trained, and equipped with automatic weapons.

This had nothing at all similar to that situation however. This was four cops, one baddie. They had him outnumbered. Four to one odds.

When airplanes crash, we watch as an in depth investigation takes the events apart second by second to find out everything that went wrong. To learn what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again, if possible. We do so knowing that we will never eliminate all airplane crashes, but we hope to reduce them to the lowest possible number, always striving for improvement.

Police don’t really do that. They kill an innocent, and shrug helplessly and say it’s a difficult job and who are you to question anything we do? Or they whip out the claim that any changes will result in more dead cops. Which is absolute bullshit. In this case, the cop died, not because of the actions of the baddie, but the actions of fellow cops.

The example I used in a reply was the California Bank Robbery in which six hundred rounds were fired by police. The reconstruction of the events showed that most cops who were shooting could not see the bad guys. They couldn’t even see them, but were shooting anyway. You are right, that isn’t like a gun range. The analogy would be if you went to a gun range, and started shooting in the parking lot. Of course you’re going to miss the target. That isn’t the actions of professionals, that is the actions of pathetic children who were firing rounds because they had no idea what they were doing.

Trigger happy cops killed a fellow officer. Will they be held accountable? No. Will they be subject to additional training? No. Will the policies change one damned bit to reflect their errors to try and prevent it from happening again? Nope. If anything the cops will swear that this proves that they have to show even less restraint. Shoot even earlier.

It was a pathetic performance, and it led to the death of another cop. Any other view is just smoke and mirrors trying to justify the indefensible.

I -SMan--am perfect--my dad taught me at the range/etc etc = bullshit
..you are saying and have said before I I I --SMan--am perfect..I would never make a mistake

I can see your abilities or skills with reading comprehension is abysmal. You must be a cop. You can’t understand simple English. Or you are a lunatic who reads words and is unable to comprehend the simple meaning of those words. Which is it?

Where did I say I was perfect. I have fired only one single round when I did not intend to. I’ve told that story here before. I was lucky, fortunate, that nobody got hurt from that mistake. But I have made many other mistakes, and I try to not only learn from them, but share them to help others avoid the same mistake. Why is it wrong to try and learn from mistakes? Or are you saying a dead cop was the perfect outcome?

 

[harmonica]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

..your title is all wrong, SMan...let me put what you really mean and say:
I AM PERFECT.....a thread by SMan
.SOB JESUS CHRIST hold crap!! again???!!!..another ''I am perfect --cops are shitheads'' thread.....???!!!!
..hey --wake up!!--the Gun Range is not REAL LIFE....nothing like dynamic situations dealing with irrational, dangerous, drugged up, etc jackasses.....
....AND---AND--you just contradicted yourself from another thread..before, you said the Army knew what they were doing and were BETTER than the cops...now you say the Army Fked up......

holy fk---get off your high horse and stop thinking you would be PERFECT at doing what cops do.....
..you are NOT perfect....you're a self righteous *******

Blue on Blue happens, and it is the responsibility of everyone involved to strive to keep it from happening. First is training. The soldier who fired and killed Tillman did not do what he was supposed to. He was firing when he was not supposed to. He was firing because his Squad Leader was firing. He did not know what he was firing at. That was a war zone, which is a little more understandable. Especially when you consider that the war zone has unknown numbers of hostile, trained, and equipped with automatic weapons.

This had nothing at all similar to that situation however. This was four cops, one baddie. They had him outnumbered. Four to one odds.

When airplanes crash, we watch as an in depth investigation takes the events apart second by second to find out everything that went wrong. To learn what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again, if possible. We do so knowing that we will never eliminate all airplane crashes, but we hope to reduce them to the lowest possible number, always striving for improvement.

Police don’t really do that. They kill an innocent, and shrug helplessly and say it’s a difficult job and who are you to question anything we do? Or they whip out the claim that any changes will result in more dead cops. Which is absolute bullshit. In this case, the cop died, not because of the actions of the baddie, but the actions of fellow cops.

The example I used in a reply was the California Bank Robbery in which six hundred rounds were fired by police. The reconstruction of the events showed that most cops who were shooting could not see the bad guys. They couldn’t even see them, but were shooting anyway. You are right, that isn’t like a gun range. The analogy would be if you went to a gun range, and started shooting in the parking lot. Of course you’re going to miss the target. That isn’t the actions of professionals, that is the actions of pathetic children who were firing rounds because they had no idea what they were doing.

Trigger happy cops killed a fellow officer. Will they be held accountable? No. Will they be subject to additional training? No. Will the policies change one damned bit to reflect their errors to try and prevent it from happening again? Nope. If anything the cops will swear that this proves that they have to show even less restraint. Shoot even earlier.

It was a pathetic performance, and it led to the death of another cop. Any other view is just smoke and mirrors trying to justify the indefensible.

I -SMan--am perfect--my dad taught me at the range/etc etc = bullshit
..you are saying and have said before I I I --SMan--am perfect..I would never make a mistake

I can see your abilities or skills with reading comprehension is abysmal. You must be a cop. You can’t understand simple English. Or you are a lunatic who reads words and is unable to comprehend the simple meaning of those words. Which is it?

Where did I say I was perfect. I have fired only one single round when I did not intend to. I’ve told that story here before. I was lucky, fortunate, that nobody got hurt from that mistake. But I have made many other mistakes, and I try to not only learn from them, but share them to help others avoid the same mistake. Why is it wrong to try and learn from mistakes? Or are you saying a dead cop was the perfect outcome?

.....bullshit--you were never in the military...if you were, you were a REMF cook --cooking hot dogs..a real military MAN would never brag, or talk shit like you do
..I know your type, in the rear area, never in combat.....and you dream of being a hero = =so you bad mouth the police and make yourself out to be SUPERMAN
.....''If I --SMan--can do it, why can't the police'''!!!! this is what you said before in other threads...you think you are ROboCop Super Hero

here!!!JESUS F CHRIST--massive amounts of police hate from YOU!!
thread after thread after thread hating police and you ARE saying you could do it better
..you would shit in your pants if you were in their situation
Search Results for Query: police | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[harmonica]

The Police are trained to shoot. Shoot fast, shoot often, and keep shooting. What they are not trained for apparently is how to hold your fire.

Body-cam captures New York City cop killed in a struggle with suspect 'reaching for his gun' | Daily Mail Online

When I was a boy, and my Father had me at the Gun Range learning how to shoot the .22 Rifle my first time. Dad taught me to think before I shoot. Was there anything downrange I did not want to shoot? Was there anything between me an the target? These lessons were always there. When I joined the Army, we trained to always know where our buddies were before we shot, we did not want Fratricide, killing our buddies. As a Combat Engineer who crawled out in front of Infantry to clear obstacles so the Grunts could get to the enemy, I was especially aware of the risk of Blue on Blue fire.

The problem is that cops are trained to shoot first, shoot often, and keep shooting. I have posted before about the cops in California who shot six hundred rounds at the baddies, killing the hostage, and most of the cops shooting were either shooting dangerously close to their fellow cops, or had no view of the target, and were shooting anyway. Blue on Blue in the Army was what killed Tillman in Afghanistan if you remember. Someone got trigger happy, and kept firing when the path was blocked by friendlies.

In New York, this caused the death of a fellow cop. So does this mean we have a war on cops, by cops? Are cops in the midst of a Civil War killing each other? Or is the poorly trained reality starting to come home? I have said before, the policies and procedures are in almost every case, a result of the wrong lesson being learned from previous shootings.

I wonder what lesson will be learned from this event? I have no faith that they will learn fire discipline, the term for reducing blue on blue fratricide. Instead they will decide that they have to shoot even sooner, to avoid the chance that there might be a friendly between them and the baddie.

..your title is all wrong, SMan...let me put what you really mean and say:
I AM PERFECT.....a thread by SMan
.SOB JESUS CHRIST hold crap!! again???!!!..another ''I am perfect --cops are shitheads'' thread.....???!!!!
..hey --wake up!!--the Gun Range is not REAL LIFE....nothing like dynamic situations dealing with irrational, dangerous, drugged up, etc jackasses.....
....AND---AND--you just contradicted yourself from another thread..before, you said the Army knew what they were doing and were BETTER than the cops...now you say the Army Fked up......

holy fk---get off your high horse and stop thinking you would be PERFECT at doing what cops do.....
..you are NOT perfect....you're a self righteous *******

Blue on Blue happens, and it is the responsibility of everyone involved to strive to keep it from happening. First is training. The soldier who fired and killed Tillman did not do what he was supposed to. He was firing when he was not supposed to. He was firing because his Squad Leader was firing. He did not know what he was firing at. That was a war zone, which is a little more understandable. Especially when you consider that the war zone has unknown numbers of hostile, trained, and equipped with automatic weapons.

This had nothing at all similar to that situation however. This was four cops, one baddie. They had him outnumbered. Four to one odds.

When airplanes crash, we watch as an in depth investigation takes the events apart second by second to find out everything that went wrong. To learn what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again, if possible. We do so knowing that we will never eliminate all airplane crashes, but we hope to reduce them to the lowest possible number, always striving for improvement.

Police don’t really do that. They kill an innocent, and shrug helplessly and say it’s a difficult job and who are you to question anything we do? Or they whip out the claim that any changes will result in more dead cops. Which is absolute bullshit. In this case, the cop died, not because of the actions of the baddie, but the actions of fellow cops.

The example I used in a reply was the California Bank Robbery in which six hundred rounds were fired by police. The reconstruction of the events showed that most cops who were shooting could not see the bad guys. They couldn’t even see them, but were shooting anyway. You are right, that isn’t like a gun range. The analogy would be if you went to a gun range, and started shooting in the parking lot. Of course you’re going to miss the target. That isn’t the actions of professionals, that is the actions of pathetic children who were firing rounds because they had no idea what they were doing.

Trigger happy cops killed a fellow officer. Will they be held accountable? No. Will they be subject to additional training? No. Will the policies change one damned bit to reflect their errors to try and prevent it from happening again? Nope. If anything the cops will swear that this proves that they have to show even less restraint. Shoot even earlier.

It was a pathetic performance, and it led to the death of another cop. Any other view is just smoke and mirrors trying to justify the indefensible.

I -SMan--am perfect--my dad taught me at the range/etc etc = bullshit
..you are saying and have said before I I I --SMan--am perfect..I would never make a mistake

I can see your abilities or skills with reading comprehension is abysmal. You must be a cop. You can’t understand simple English. Or you are a lunatic who reads words and is unable to comprehend the simple meaning of those words. Which is it?

Where did I say I was perfect. I have fired only one single round when I did not intend to. I’ve told that story here before. I was lucky, fortunate, that nobody got hurt from that mistake. But I have made many other mistakes, and I try to not only learn from them, but share them to help others avoid the same mistake. Why is it wrong to try and learn from mistakes? Or are you saying a dead cop was the perfect outcome?

.....here in post #35!! ..total BULLSHIT is what it is......you are saying ''if I can do it, why can't the police'' ----hahahhahaha......you think you are PERFECT..in reality, you would shit in your pants
Deputy afeared for his life shoots woman with her hands up.

 

[whitehall]

Maybe you are behind the times if you think Cops are taught to "shoot first". Like the current Military it seems that Police Officers are taught to hold fire until the very end or risk a charge of manslaughter.