Bill of Rights...from scratch

[manifold]

Let's assume for purposes of this discussion that we were going to revisit the Bill of Rights in order to rectify the ambiguity and variability of interpretations that have been caused by the passage of time.

If we were starting with a clean sheet of paper and laying out a set of individual rights, as plainly and clearly as possible, what should be included?

 

[Yurt]

a supplemental definition list

most codes/statutes come with a preliminary definition list, doesn't cover everything, but covers a good number of words that are important and could alter the meaning of a code.

 

[strollingbones]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

would change nothng abou this..it is unfortunate our government already has with the est. of "free speech zones" this whole country should be a free speech zone.


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

total gun rights supporter here


Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

i agree, i think most homeowners would in an emergency help..


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures , shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue , but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

o hell yes, this should include our cars too...no warrent no search...and the warrent should id. what they are looking for

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

we gotz us a wee bit of a problem here....just compensation is what i want for my property now what you want to give me i am not a fan of emmenit domain....at all..especially taking private property for mall and such


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

i totally agree in due process and the right to face your accusor (unless it is a child who has been sexual molested and i agree that ever man/woman should have right to legal counsel


Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

our court systmes are too overloaded with bullshut over 20 dollar civil suits or millions for a pair of pants.. i would change this a wee bit but only with advice of counsel


Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

agree


Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

agree


Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

very strong states righter...we were not meant to have a strong federal government leving taxes on th states


http://www.consource.org/index.asp?bid=574&False&gclid=CLf07sWvrZoCFQwxawodRAtGaw

 

[manifold]

Not exactly a clean sheet of paper there bones.

The point of the exercise is to effectively re-write the existing BoR (with additions and ommissions as people see fit) in clear, contemporary language that cannot be misinterpretted... at least for a little while.

 

[manifold]

In hindsight, this may be a little too heady for a friday afternoon thread...


but it will still be here on monday.

 

[KittenKoder]

I got one, just say this:

All humans must be treated equally under any law written and upheld by a state or regional government within the United States of America.

 

[strollingbones]

why re invent the wheel manie?

 

[KittenKoder]

why re invent the wheel manie?

Because it's been dented so many times it no longer rolls?

 

[manifold]

I got one, just say this:

All humans must be treated equally under any law written and upheld by a state or regional government within the United States of America.

So we all have the right to be oppressed equally. Fantastic!

 

[strollingbones]

wow a clean sheet...human rights....

i will have to ponder it on a notepad...or else it will be a thousand small posts lol.....let me go ponder...okay let me look it over..you know check for spelling

 

[strollingbones]

each member of a nation will have security from conception to death.

i would outlaw abortion except in ethic cases that would be left to someone beyond me.

states would have strong governments with the majority of governing done at a local level. taxes would be levied as needed. the building of super highways would be done by private enterprise and tolls charged.

states would determine their status with only a few items being defined by a central government. which would only be for common defense, common issues only.

all people would have equal opportunities in education. social issues would be left alone as much as possible.

church and state would be separate. churches would pay taxes on their properties and holdings just like any other profitable company.

gun rights would be unabridge except in cases of felonies and mental defects. felons would loss the right to vote, period.

 

[strollingbones]

damn good point kitty...we have strayed so far from the constitution..it is a shame...everyone cries they are in support of it...but did nothing when reagan....committed consittution treason.....

 

[Yurt]

Not exactly a clean sheet of paper there bones.

The point of the exercise is to effectively re-write the existing BoR (with additions and ommissions as people see fit) in clear, contemporary language that cannot be misinterpretted... at least for a little while.

so then we can't use any of the old amendments, so no press, religion, etc...?

 

[manifold]

Not exactly a clean sheet of paper there bones.

The point of the exercise is to effectively re-write the existing BoR (with additions and ommissions as people see fit) in clear, contemporary language that cannot be misinterpretted... at least for a little while.

so then we can't use any of the old amendments, so no press, religion, etc...?

you can use whatever you like. I'm just saying that people seem to have different interpetations of the old ones, so if you use them unchanged those differences remain.

How about one for freedom of speech:

The right of every individual to express any opinion shall not be infringed.

Since yellling fire in a crowded theater to intentionally incite hysteria isn't an opinion, I think this could solve that one.

 

[midcan5]

Our greatest president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, already wrote what I can hardly improve on. And out of these economic rights, as I have noted in another thread, grow all the things we most admire and keep us safe. You could tack on the "Golden Rule" for good measure, a universal rule but like all rules....


"The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education."


"All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."

Franklin D. Roosevelt: "The Economic Bill of Rights"

 

[Yurt]

so who provides all that...sounds like communism

 

[manifold]

Our greatest president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, already wrote what I can hardly improve on. And out of these economic rights, as I have noted in another thread, grow all the things we most admire and keep us safe. You could tack on the "Golden Rule" for good measure, a universal rule but like all rules....


"The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education."


"All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."

Franklin D. Roosevelt: "The Economic Bill of Rights"

Seems a bit superfluous to me because these sound a lot more like entitlements than rights. But for example, if you think it's necessary to include a provision that the government cannot infringe on an individual's right to visit a doctor then I guess I can live with that.

 

[xotoxi]

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

we gotz us a wee bit of a problem here....just compensation is what i want for my property now what you want to give me i am not a fan of emmenit domain....at all..especially taking private property for mall and such

You bring up a good point. What is "just compensation"?

I think that fair market value is not appropriate. Your property may be worth a certain amount to the public, but worth much more to you, especially since you don't want to sell it.

I think that just compensation should be "ten times fair market value".

 

[del]

Let's assume for purposes of this discussion that we were going to revisit the Bill of Rights in order to rectify the ambiguity and variability of interpretations that have been caused by the passage of time.

If we were starting with a clean sheet of paper and laying out a set of individual rights, as plainly and clearly as possible, what should be included?

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law.

all set.

 

[Ravi]

Everyone is guaranteed to any right that does not infringe on another's.