Betsy DeVos Gets Stopped From Entering DC Public School by Protesters

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

And here....more stats on students at proficiency or above in math or reading........30% for math......really?

25% for reading......really?

Despite D.C. public school gains, system trails behind large-city average

The proportion of students who scored high enough to be considered proficient or advanced also trailed the big-city average. Among fourth-graders, one-fourth were proficient or above in reading and one-third were proficient or above in math.

Can you explain how these teachers are keeping their jobs? Can anyone else, anywhere else keep their job if they only have a 25% success rate at their chosen profession?

Paying them over 77,000 dollars a year to be a failure?

 

[EverCurious]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That's nice, you're clearly not in Alaska. Also, kudos you got me. I'd just gotten up and used the wrong word heh

Anyway, don't base the entire nation on your little world because it's absolutely irrelevant to mine.

First link I find on a bing search for Alaska teachers is from 2013-2014 and it's $65k - Alaska Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in AK | Teacher Portal

My info of $70k (knowing the way Alaskan's talk, rounding and shit, and given the above fact, it's likely $68-69K) came from the local news talking about the Anchorage School Districts budget deficit. We're having our annual row with them because they're threatening to fire 99 of our 1400 teachers because they're $15M short on their budget /yet again/ this year - a common tactic for our teachers union to use the firing of teachers as a threat whenever we try to get them to fix their damn budget. They always tell us that there is not a single admin/specialist position can be gotten rid of first, not a single expense can be cut down on, nope, its always straight to the threat of "we'll have to fire TONS of teachers." (Not that its even particularly a 'disaster' as we've put a ton of money into education funding so we could keep our class sizes down, as noted in my link 13 students per teacher. Still it pisses us tax payers off that cutting teachers and directly effecting our kids as punishment is /always/ their answer if we say we can't give them the $8-10 million /more/ they demand over what we give them [usually at least an additional $5M or so] in their budget. Every. Single. Year.)

This year it's particularly onerous because the state of Alaska has a $1.5T budget gap due to low oil prices and we've been forced to trim down /everything/ in order to make the budget solvent - to include us tax payers literally DYING on the streets because we had no choice but to cut road maintenance (the ruts are so bad on Tudor right now with the ice that the state and muni are instructing us not to use that lane [super icy right now due to the last pineapple express from Hawaii] just the other day a lady got flung into oncoming traffic and died,) and we've offered freely to pay a $0.75-$2.00/gallon tax on gas (we figure that we were paying $4-$5/gallon a couple years ago so we'll be okay to pay more now so we don't have to dip into our state budget reserve savings,) we're also talking about and agreeing that maybe we should instate an income tax for the first time in our history. -- We Alaskan's are not like lower 48er's. We truly want a balanced budget, we do not want nor like to spend more then we make as a state, and we are willing to pay more for the services we need/want (ie why Alaska has never had an income tax, we balance our budgets hell or high water, but frankly ACA is murdering us) - anyway this principle (right word heh) goes for the schools as well, however the unions, and the ASD in particular, are basically nothing more than a bunch of greedy thugs who blow money out their ass and don't want to be solvent on /anything/ (aka they act like lower 48ers heh)

See also - Earn More! Average Teacher Salary in Alaska, AK Teaching Salaries

The average teacher salary in Alaska was significantly higher than the national average for both 2008 and 2009. The national averages were $49,720 in 2009 and $48,353 in 2008. Teaching salaries in Alaska were $66,560 in 2009 and $56,655 in 2008.

From 2007 to 2008, teacher salary in Alaska rose by a small .42%, but from 2008 to 2009, there was an astonishing 17.48 percent increase. The average teacher salary in Alaska jumped from $56,655 to $66,560 from 2008 to 2009. This increase in 2009 resulted in a 17.98 percent increase in a two-year period.

Teacher salaries in Alaska went down in the national ranking between 2007 and 2008 from number 6 to number 8. Then, in 2009 teaching salaries in Alaska exploded to the number three ranking in the nation.

State Spending on Teachers

Salary expenditure on all teachers (including home schoolers, special education, non-certified teachers): $578,916,138
Benefits expenditures for teachers: $412,554,779
Instructional expenditures for teaching supplies: $57,778,645
Total current instructional expenditures per student (teacher salary and curriculum): $13,113
Total current expenditures per student: $25,033

----

Yea we tried to make a no strike law back in the early 80's but the supreme came back that it violates our State Constitution so we can't do it. The best we can do is arbitration (during which the union just flips us the bird and says "guess we'll fire all the teachers." ~fake tears~)

"Thus, I conclude that the exclusion of the teachers from the strike and arbitration provisions of AS 23.40.200 violates the equal protection clause of Alaska's constitution." - http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821641648P2d993_11627/ANCHORAGE EDUC. ASS'N v. ANCHORAGE SCH. DIST.

----

Do also keep in mind that Murkowski is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, so no we can't get fucking shit for laws passed to control our teachers unions, they are too damn big to stop.

"FAIRBANKS — The National Education Association — the largest teachers union in the United States — endorsed Sen. Lisa Murkowski in her re-election bid on Monday.

Murkowski is the senior of Alaska’s two sitting U.S. Senators, along with Dan Sullivan. A Republican, Murkowski has served in the U.S. Senate since 2002, when she was appointed by her father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski.

The National Education Association endorsed Murkowski over her several opponents, including Democrat Ray Metcalfe and non-affiliated candidate Margaret Stock.

Tim Parker, president of NEA-Alaska, the state branch of the national organization, said Murkowski has been an ally of education and of teachers in Alaska during her 14 years in the Senate." - National teachers union endorses Murkowski

"Murkowski received a 100 percent rating on a 2012 NEA Report Card, while Collins received a 75 percent rating—the only Republicans to earn marks above 50 percent from the group. Each senator has earned straight-A marks from the union since 2014.

Murkowski has long been a favorite of teachers unions. She was one of only four Republican senators to receive contributions from the NEA in 2016, hauling in $10,000, while the other three Republicans received only $3,200. She received the NEA's endorsement in 2010 when she won as an independent candidate after losing the GOP primary, and received it again in 2016. - GOP Defectors Have Received Thousands From Teachers Union [Murkowski, Collins]

-----

As I previously mentioned in this thread, a shit-ton of Alaskan's just vote a straight R ticket because they don't have time to keep up on political shit due to the unique nature of Alaska (with folks working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, or 6months on 6months off, out on the ocean or in the bush for half the year, etc. It can also be said there is an information deficiency as far as day-to-day politics go, a large chunk of our state barely has radio, much less tvs or newspapers that carry state or national news heh)

Basically we have a bit of a weird political system up here, nothing like the lower 48s. Up here grass roots is the only way to beat out incumbents, it's why Murkowski ran one of the most successful write-in campaigns in national history. ("In 2010 incumbent Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski lost the Republican primary to Joe Miller.[Independent] Following her defeat she ran in the general election as a write-in candidate. Murkowski had filed, and won, a lawsuit requiring election officials to have the list of names of write-in candidates distributed at the polls, and subsequently won the election with a wide enough margin over both Miller, and Democratic Party candidate Scott T. McAdams, to make moot the write-in ballots that had been challenged by Miller.")

The simple act of taking a trip to wave at the people and say the right things that one time goes a /long/ way up here. I'll also note she's not the only politician we have the 'straight R ticket vote' problem with, Walker rides the same train. It's how we ended up just handing over fucking $2m to the oil companies who have been raping us since the 70s heh

 

[dannyboys]

I defy ANYONE to go into ANY inner city school and watch what goes on in EVERY FUCKING classroom.....or rather what doesn't go on ie ANY actual teaching!
The 'teachers' as fucking illiterate is the students.....ome worse.
Virtually NO negro student takes ANY school books home to study. What's the point? Their school books are taken from them by negro gang members.
EVERY inner city negro kid KNOWS which gang they BELONG to for LIFE by the time they are six years old!

That's funny! I taught in an inner city middle school for three years. Maybe you should go back to school and learn about sentence structure. I guess "ome worse" applies to me. What about you?

I think you are just a racist and will not waste any more time with your hypocrisy.

What does making a spelling mistake have to do with "sentence structure" asshole?
On second thought the inner city schools controlled by the teacher's unions are doing GREAT! Just look at the results! Keep your head in the sand and 'pretend' inner city schools are doing great. That's what Obama did for eight years. He didn't dare piss off the negro run teacher's unions.
Anyone can Google: 'Failing inner city schools'.

 

[dannyboys]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That means you are being paid twice what you're worth.

 

[OldLady]

Most people who suck at their jobs can be fired. Teachers, thanks to unions, really can't. So tax payer's are forced to continue to pay in, yet not get much return on the 'investment.' Not saying all teachers are bad, but a decent number of them are. As a parent you don't get to shop for teachers, or schools; you're stuck with whatever happens to come up. Even if you /really/ dislike a teacher, you've got almost no redress if there doesn't happen to be room in another class.

I had to spend half a year being taught by a teacher that publicly accused me of telling a friend to commit suicide. I had given him a mix tape that included the song Suicide Solution by Ozzy. The teacher took it as an encouragement (the song is actually the opposite.) The teachers comment was not only in the news paper but on TV. The fucked up part, that teacher became the principle of the school three years later. Thank's teachers union \o/

I had a nasty, nasty bulldyke of a gym teacher for three years who made life misery for me and a number of other girls who weren't her favorites. She was a miserable bitch but I didn't turn against the teaching profession because of it. You ever meet someone nasty and unfair at work? In your local PTA or church group? Some people are like that; they can pop up in a school, as well.
The sad thing is, a lot of teachers agree that the tenure laws allow burnt out teachers to stay too long. The reason for the law, though, isn't to protect lousy teachers. It goes straight back to the salary issue. School boards looking at a tight budget and a loudly protesting group of tax payers would fire any teacher about to go up in the pay scale. Whether someone is a good teacher or not can be very subjective and if you look closely enough with a dark enough pair of glasses, you will find reasons whether they exist or not. Some schools here are famous for hiring new teachers for two years and then when they would receive tenure and get a pay raise, the school doesn't renew and hires some other brand new "cheap" teachers.
I agree with you that firing an incompetent teacher should not be next to impossible. Just keep in mind that "incompetent" can be largely in the mind of the beholder, or a personality issue, as it was with you.

And that is where vouchers come in....under the current system.....bad teachers get paid no matter how bad....and without a block, boards would fire good teachers because they earn a lot...that is the problem with a socialist monopoly on education.....

With vouchers.....schools have an incentive to pay good teachers and keep them...because they want to please the customers.....the parents who choose where to use the voucher...and they have an incentive to get rid of the bad teachers....again, the parents who choose the school........

That is the magic of competition and why vouchers are so important.....we use vouchers for everything we do...it is called money......and if a business wants our money, they have to make us happy....when did the government have to make you happy?

If you don't think schools answer to their communities, their parents and their school board, you are sadly mistaken. It sounds as if "school choice" means the government will be flooding money into private schools that are apparently not beholden to tax payers or parents, except by the traffic through their doors. Maybe that will work as you describe. I don't know. But it raises a lot of questions, starting with where is all this money coming from? Is it just being taken from the public schools that are already gasping for funding in poorer neighborhoods with low tax bases?

What is it about freedom you guys don't get.......

Right now...if your kid is having a problem with a teacher...you have to fight the administration and then the school board to get the problem fixed....and if they won't help you....you have to move to another school district or pay out of your own pocket to send them to a good school...after your property taxes go to support the hell hole school in your neighborhood....

And with vouchers...if the school sucks...you pull your kid...and your voucher, and send them to another school......and guess what......schools will have to actually satisfy the customer by educating children....if they don't they don't get paid....

Each kid already gets a certain amount of money for school...you simply give them that amount in a voucher, to be used anywhere they want....just like the G.I. Bill.....and all the lefties love that program.....

Those poor public schools...are not going to improve no matter how much money you give them...because they don't have to...we have high schools in Chicago...built to hold 3,000 students...who only have 300 kids in them, with most of the building sealed off...because those black Chicagoans who could leave....left......

Vouchers will bring back those bad schools, they will allow better people to run them.....

Why is it you can sit in your home, with every modern convenience, created by competition, and freedom of choice, making them better and less expensive and more accessible to every economic level....yet you don't think the same thing will work when schools have to make their customers happy.......?

I didn't say it wouldn't work; I just asked a question. Not every place is Chicago, or inner city, where there are oodles of students and many schools within a relatively short traveling distance. In rural and suburban areas, our schools are doing fine but everyone is feeling the pinch, has been for years, keeping those public schools good. This one-size fits all program could pretty drastically erode what was once a functioning school system. That's all. I suppose we are going to find out if you are right. Well educated students are certainly a good thing and are important for our country. I'm just not sure it is appropriate for EVERY place.

 

[Unkotare]

I defy ANYONE to go into ANY inner city school and watch what goes on in EVERY FUCKING classroom.....or rather what doesn't go on ie ANY actual teaching!
...!

That's an ignorant lie.

Fuck you!
I was born in Chagoland. Lived on the S. side.
Don't fuckimg TELL ME!! ....

I AM telling you, so read carefully, shitforbtains. You have no idea what you are talking about, and/or are lying through your tooth for obvious reasons. I am there on the front lines every day, and you are completely full of shit.

.

 

[Iceweasel]

OldLady I disagree, it goes back to the teachers union stopping teachers from getting fired. The union up here is massive, one of the largest in the nation, and they string us up regularly for raises, pensions, insurance, etc. We don't get a say because they'll do a "strike" and ten cities go down. They use it as a weapon, viciously. There's a reason the average teacher salary up here is creeping up on $70k/y + bens and it's not based on 'result' matrix's.

I don't particularly dislike teachers, at least not the good ones, but I do very much dislike the union.

Change your laws. Few teacher's unions nationwide do not have a no strike clause in their contracts. I have been a teacher for 20 years, in two states, and for the DoD. Pay raises and benefits are all dictated, not negotiated.

We have a law against government strikes but the teacher's unions often organize and carry out strikes one week before school starts for the purpose of causing as much mayhem as possible.

 

[2aguy]

Most people who suck at their jobs can be fired. Teachers, thanks to unions, really can't. So tax payer's are forced to continue to pay in, yet not get much return on the 'investment.' Not saying all teachers are bad, but a decent number of them are. As a parent you don't get to shop for teachers, or schools; you're stuck with whatever happens to come up. Even if you /really/ dislike a teacher, you've got almost no redress if there doesn't happen to be room in another class.

I had to spend half a year being taught by a teacher that publicly accused me of telling a friend to commit suicide. I had given him a mix tape that included the song Suicide Solution by Ozzy. The teacher took it as an encouragement (the song is actually the opposite.) The teachers comment was not only in the news paper but on TV. The fucked up part, that teacher became the principle of the school three years later. Thank's teachers union \o/

I had a nasty, nasty bulldyke of a gym teacher for three years who made life misery for me and a number of other girls who weren't her favorites. She was a miserable bitch but I didn't turn against the teaching profession because of it. You ever meet someone nasty and unfair at work? In your local PTA or church group? Some people are like that; they can pop up in a school, as well.
The sad thing is, a lot of teachers agree that the tenure laws allow burnt out teachers to stay too long. The reason for the law, though, isn't to protect lousy teachers. It goes straight back to the salary issue. School boards looking at a tight budget and a loudly protesting group of tax payers would fire any teacher about to go up in the pay scale. Whether someone is a good teacher or not can be very subjective and if you look closely enough with a dark enough pair of glasses, you will find reasons whether they exist or not. Some schools here are famous for hiring new teachers for two years and then when they would receive tenure and get a pay raise, the school doesn't renew and hires some other brand new "cheap" teachers.
I agree with you that firing an incompetent teacher should not be next to impossible. Just keep in mind that "incompetent" can be largely in the mind of the beholder, or a personality issue, as it was with you.

And that is where vouchers come in....under the current system.....bad teachers get paid no matter how bad....and without a block, boards would fire good teachers because they earn a lot...that is the problem with a socialist monopoly on education.....

With vouchers.....schools have an incentive to pay good teachers and keep them...because they want to please the customers.....the parents who choose where to use the voucher...and they have an incentive to get rid of the bad teachers....again, the parents who choose the school........

That is the magic of competition and why vouchers are so important.....we use vouchers for everything we do...it is called money......and if a business wants our money, they have to make us happy....when did the government have to make you happy?

If you don't think schools answer to their communities, their parents and their school board, you are sadly mistaken. It sounds as if "school choice" means the government will be flooding money into private schools that are apparently not beholden to tax payers or parents, except by the traffic through their doors. Maybe that will work as you describe. I don't know. But it raises a lot of questions, starting with where is all this money coming from? Is it just being taken from the public schools that are already gasping for funding in poorer neighborhoods with low tax bases?

What is it about freedom you guys don't get.......

Right now...if your kid is having a problem with a teacher...you have to fight the administration and then the school board to get the problem fixed....and if they won't help you....you have to move to another school district or pay out of your own pocket to send them to a good school...after your property taxes go to support the hell hole school in your neighborhood....

And with vouchers...if the school sucks...you pull your kid...and your voucher, and send them to another school......and guess what......schools will have to actually satisfy the customer by educating children....if they don't they don't get paid....

Each kid already gets a certain amount of money for school...you simply give them that amount in a voucher, to be used anywhere they want....just like the G.I. Bill.....and all the lefties love that program.....

Those poor public schools...are not going to improve no matter how much money you give them...because they don't have to...we have high schools in Chicago...built to hold 3,000 students...who only have 300 kids in them, with most of the building sealed off...because those black Chicagoans who could leave....left......

Vouchers will bring back those bad schools, they will allow better people to run them.....

Why is it you can sit in your home, with every modern convenience, created by competition, and freedom of choice, making them better and less expensive and more accessible to every economic level....yet you don't think the same thing will work when schools have to make their customers happy.......?

I didn't say it wouldn't work; I just asked a question. Not every place is Chicago, or inner city, where there are oodles of students and many schools within a relatively short traveling distance. In rural and suburban areas, our schools are doing fine but everyone is feeling the pinch, has been for years, keeping those public schools good. This one-size fits all program could pretty drastically erode what was once a functioning school system. That's all. I suppose we are going to find out if you are right. Well educated students are certainly a good thing and are important for our country. I'm just not sure it is appropriate for EVERY place.

Vouchers are the exact opposite of one size fits all....what we have now is one size fits all and it is destroying lives.

The reality of vouchers is that most people will go to the schools in their neighborhoods....because that is what they know....but vouchers will give a chance to the kids in hell hole schools to have a chance.

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That's nice, you're clearly not in Alaska. Also, kudos you got me. I'd just gotten up and used the wrong word heh

Anyway, don't base the entire nation on your little world because it's absolutely irrelevant to mine.

First link I find on a bing search for Alaska teachers is from 2013-2014 and it's $65k - Alaska Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in AK | Teacher Portal

My info of $70k (knowing the way Alaskan's talk, rounding and shit, and given the above fact, it's likely $68-69K) came from the local news talking about the Anchorage School Districts budget deficit. We're having our annual row with them because they're threatening to fire 99 of our 1400 teachers because they're $15M short on their budget /yet again/ this year - a common tactic for our teachers union to use the firing of teachers as a threat whenever we try to get them to fix their damn budget. They always tell us that there is not a single admin/specialist position can be gotten rid of first, not a single expense can be cut down on, nope, its always straight to the threat of "we'll have to fire TONS of teachers." (Not that its even particularly a 'disaster' as we've put a ton of money into education funding so we could keep our class sizes down, as noted in my link 13 students per teacher. Still it pisses us tax payers off that cutting teachers and directly effecting our kids as punishment is /always/ their answer if we say we can't give them the $8-10 million /more/ they demand over what we give them [usually at least an additional $5M or so] in their budget. Every. Single. Year.)

This year it's particularly onerous because the state of Alaska has a $1.5T budget gap due to low oil prices and we've been forced to trim down /everything/ in order to make the budget solvent - to include us tax payers literally DYING on the streets because we had no choice but to cut road maintenance (the ruts are so bad on Tudor right now with the ice that the state and muni are instructing us not to use that lane [super icy right now due to the last pineapple express from Hawaii] just the other day a lady got flung into oncoming traffic and died,) and we've offered freely to pay a $0.75-$2.00/gallon tax on gas (we figure that we were paying $4-$5/gallon a couple years ago so we'll be okay to pay more now so we don't have to dip into our state budget reserve savings,) we're also talking about and agreeing that maybe we should instate an income tax for the first time in our history. -- We Alaskan's are not like lower 48er's. We truly want a balanced budget, we do not want nor like to spend more then we make as a state, and we are willing to pay more for the services we need/want (ie why Alaska has never had an income tax, we balance our budgets hell or high water, but frankly ACA is murdering us) - anyway this principle (right word heh) goes for the schools as well, however the unions, and the ASD in particular, are basically nothing more than a bunch of greedy thugs who blow money out their ass and don't want to be solvent on /anything/ (aka they act like lower 48ers heh)

See also - Earn More! Average Teacher Salary in Alaska, AK Teaching Salaries

The average teacher salary in Alaska was significantly higher than the national average for both 2008 and 2009. The national averages were $49,720 in 2009 and $48,353 in 2008. Teaching salaries in Alaska were $66,560 in 2009 and $56,655 in 2008.

From 2007 to 2008, teacher salary in Alaska rose by a small .42%, but from 2008 to 2009, there was an astonishing 17.48 percent increase. The average teacher salary in Alaska jumped from $56,655 to $66,560 from 2008 to 2009. This increase in 2009 resulted in a 17.98 percent increase in a two-year period.

Teacher salaries in Alaska went down in the national ranking between 2007 and 2008 from number 6 to number 8. Then, in 2009 teaching salaries in Alaska exploded to the number three ranking in the nation.

State Spending on Teachers

Salary expenditure on all teachers (including home schoolers, special education, non-certified teachers): $578,916,138
Benefits expenditures for teachers: $412,554,779
Instructional expenditures for teaching supplies: $57,778,645
Total current instructional expenditures per student (teacher salary and curriculum): $13,113
Total current expenditures per student: $25,033

----

Yea we tried to make a no strike law back in the early 80's but the supreme came back that it violates our State Constitution so we can't do it. The best we can do is arbitration (during which the union just flips us the bird and says "guess we'll fire all the teachers." ~fake tears~)

"Thus, I conclude that the exclusion of the teachers from the strike and arbitration provisions of AS 23.40.200 violates the equal protection clause of Alaska's constitution." - http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821641648P2d993_11627/ANCHORAGE EDUC. ASS'N v. ANCHORAGE SCH. DIST.

----

Do also keep in mind that Murkowski is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, so no we can't get fucking shit for laws passed to control our teachers unions, they are too damn big to stop.

"FAIRBANKS — The National Education Association — the largest teachers union in the United States — endorsed Sen. Lisa Murkowski in her re-election bid on Monday.

Murkowski is the senior of Alaska’s two sitting U.S. Senators, along with Dan Sullivan. A Republican, Murkowski has served in the U.S. Senate since 2002, when she was appointed by her father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski.

The National Education Association endorsed Murkowski over her several opponents, including Democrat Ray Metcalfe and non-affiliated candidate Margaret Stock.

Tim Parker, president of NEA-Alaska, the state branch of the national organization, said Murkowski has been an ally of education and of teachers in Alaska during her 14 years in the Senate." - National teachers union endorses Murkowski

"Murkowski received a 100 percent rating on a 2012 NEA Report Card, while Collins received a 75 percent rating—the only Republicans to earn marks above 50 percent from the group. Each senator has earned straight-A marks from the union since 2014.

Murkowski has long been a favorite of teachers unions. She was one of only four Republican senators to receive contributions from the NEA in 2016, hauling in $10,000, while the other three Republicans received only $3,200. She received the NEA's endorsement in 2010 when she won as an independent candidate after losing the GOP primary, and received it again in 2016. - GOP Defectors Have Received Thousands From Teachers Union [Murkowski, Collins]

-----

As I previously mentioned in this thread, a shit-ton of Alaskan's just vote a straight R ticket because they don't have time to keep up on political shit due to the unique nature of Alaska (with folks working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, or 6months on 6months off, out on the ocean or in the bush for half the year, etc. It can also be said there is an information deficiency as far as day-to-day politics go, a large chunk of our state barely has radio, much less tvs or newspapers that carry state or national news heh)

Basically we have a bit of a weird political system up here, nothing like the lower 48s. Up here grass roots is the only way to beat out incumbents, it's why Murkowski ran one of the most successful write-in campaigns in national history. ("In 2010 incumbent Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski lost the Republican primary to Joe Miller.[Independent] Following her defeat she ran in the general election as a write-in candidate. Murkowski had filed, and won, a lawsuit requiring election officials to have the list of names of write-in candidates distributed at the polls, and subsequently won the election with a wide enough margin over both Miller, and Democratic Party candidate Scott T. McAdams, to make moot the write-in ballots that had been challenged by Miller.")

The simple act of taking a trip to wave at the people and say the right things that one time goes a /long/ way up here. I'll also note she's not the only politician we have the 'straight R ticket vote' problem with, Walker rides the same train. It's how we ended up just handing over fucking $2m to the oil companies who have been raping us since the 70s heh

One of the tricks they use....threaten teachers are going to be fired, as new teachers then put out resumes before the end of the year......they tried that one on us years ago...the thing is...all new, first and second year teachers put out feelers for jobs because they don't know if they are coming back the next year anyway.......and then the budget for the year comes through and they keep their jobs...but they are used to show that teachers will be cut...when it is just the usual thing teachers do...new teachers without their tenure ......which they get in 2-3 years, then can't be fired if they suck...

 

[EverCurious]

Well I suppose it's some weird comfort that our union isn't the only one that does it - gives me hope that maybe the WH knows it's happening and might have some ideas - wishful thinking heh

Although I do think vouchers are a great step, I have a feeling that a lot of Alaska in general is going to get hosed out of choices by our state and muni government because they'll bow to the teachers unions regardless - like refusing to let private companies build anymore schools through zoning laws or whatever. Still we do have a number of private schools that will benefit so hopefully the "trickle-down" effect is enough to at least get rid of the shitty teachers.

 

[Unkotare]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That's nice, you're clearly not in Alaska. Also, kudos you got me. I'd just gotten up and used the wrong word heh

Anyway, don't base the entire nation on your little world because it's absolutely irrelevant to mine.

First link I find on a bing search for Alaska teachers is from 2013-2014 and it's $65k - Alaska Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in AK | Teacher Portal

My info of $70k (knowing the way Alaskan's talk, rounding and shit, and given the above fact, it's likely $68-69K) came from the local news talking about the Anchorage School Districts budget deficit. We're having our annual row with them because they're threatening to fire 99 of our 1400 teachers because they're $15M short on their budget /yet again/ this year - a common tactic for our teachers union to use the firing of teachers as a threat whenever we try to get them to fix their damn budget. They always tell us that there is not a single admin/specialist position can be gotten rid of first, not a single expense can be cut down on, nope, its always straight to the threat of "we'll have to fire TONS of teachers." (Not that its even particularly a 'disaster' as we've put a ton of money into education funding so we could keep our class sizes down, as noted in my link 13 students per teacher. Still it pisses us tax payers off that cutting teachers and directly effecting our kids as punishment is /always/ their answer if we say we can't give them the $8-10 million /more/ they demand over what we give them [usually at least an additional $5M or so] in their budget. Every. Single. Year.)

This year it's particularly onerous because the state of Alaska has a $1.5T budget gap due to low oil prices and we've been forced to trim down /everything/ in order to make the budget solvent - to include us tax payers literally DYING on the streets because we had no choice but to cut road maintenance (the ruts are so bad on Tudor right now with the ice that the state and muni are instructing us not to use that lane [super icy right now due to the last pineapple express from Hawaii] just the other day a lady got flung into oncoming traffic and died,) and we've offered freely to pay a $0.75-$2.00/gallon tax on gas (we figure that we were paying $4-$5/gallon a couple years ago so we'll be okay to pay more now so we don't have to dip into our state budget reserve savings,) we're also talking about and agreeing that maybe we should instate an income tax for the first time in our history. -- We Alaskan's are not like lower 48er's. We truly want a balanced budget, we do not want nor like to spend more then we make as a state, and we are willing to pay more for the services we need/want (ie why Alaska has never had an income tax, we balance our budgets hell or high water, but frankly ACA is murdering us) - anyway this principle (right word heh) goes for the schools as well, however the unions, and the ASD in particular, are basically nothing more than a bunch of greedy thugs who blow money out their ass and don't want to be solvent on /anything/ (aka they act like lower 48ers heh)

See also - Earn More! Average Teacher Salary in Alaska, AK Teaching Salaries

The average teacher salary in Alaska was significantly higher than the national average for both 2008 and 2009. The national averages were $49,720 in 2009 and $48,353 in 2008. Teaching salaries in Alaska were $66,560 in 2009 and $56,655 in 2008.

From 2007 to 2008, teacher salary in Alaska rose by a small .42%, but from 2008 to 2009, there was an astonishing 17.48 percent increase. The average teacher salary in Alaska jumped from $56,655 to $66,560 from 2008 to 2009. This increase in 2009 resulted in a 17.98 percent increase in a two-year period.

Teacher salaries in Alaska went down in the national ranking between 2007 and 2008 from number 6 to number 8. Then, in 2009 teaching salaries in Alaska exploded to the number three ranking in the nation.

State Spending on Teachers

Salary expenditure on all teachers (including home schoolers, special education, non-certified teachers): $578,916,138
Benefits expenditures for teachers: $412,554,779
Instructional expenditures for teaching supplies: $57,778,645
Total current instructional expenditures per student (teacher salary and curriculum): $13,113
Total current expenditures per student: $25,033

----

Yea we tried to make a no strike law back in the early 80's but the supreme came back that it violates our State Constitution so we can't do it. The best we can do is arbitration (during which the union just flips us the bird and says "guess we'll fire all the teachers." ~fake tears~)

"Thus, I conclude that the exclusion of the teachers from the strike and arbitration provisions of AS 23.40.200 violates the equal protection clause of Alaska's constitution." - http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821641648P2d993_11627/ANCHORAGE EDUC. ASS'N v. ANCHORAGE SCH. DIST.

----

Do also keep in mind that Murkowski is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, so no we can't get fucking shit for laws passed to control our teachers unions, they are too damn big to stop.

"FAIRBANKS — The National Education Association — the largest teachers union in the United States — endorsed Sen. Lisa Murkowski in her re-election bid on Monday.

Murkowski is the senior of Alaska’s two sitting U.S. Senators, along with Dan Sullivan. A Republican, Murkowski has served in the U.S. Senate since 2002, when she was appointed by her father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski.

The National Education Association endorsed Murkowski over her several opponents, including Democrat Ray Metcalfe and non-affiliated candidate Margaret Stock.

Tim Parker, president of NEA-Alaska, the state branch of the national organization, said Murkowski has been an ally of education and of teachers in Alaska during her 14 years in the Senate." - National teachers union endorses Murkowski

"Murkowski received a 100 percent rating on a 2012 NEA Report Card, while Collins received a 75 percent rating—the only Republicans to earn marks above 50 percent from the group. Each senator has earned straight-A marks from the union since 2014.

Murkowski has long been a favorite of teachers unions. She was one of only four Republican senators to receive contributions from the NEA in 2016, hauling in $10,000, while the other three Republicans received only $3,200. She received the NEA's endorsement in 2010 when she won as an independent candidate after losing the GOP primary, and received it again in 2016. - GOP Defectors Have Received Thousands From Teachers Union [Murkowski, Collins]

-----

As I previously mentioned in this thread, a shit-ton of Alaskan's just vote a straight R ticket because they don't have time to keep up on political shit due to the unique nature of Alaska (with folks working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, or 6months on 6months off, out on the ocean or in the bush for half the year, etc. It can also be said there is an information deficiency as far as day-to-day politics go, a large chunk of our state barely has radio, much less tvs or newspapers that carry state or national news heh)

Basically we have a bit of a weird political system up here, nothing like the lower 48s. Up here grass roots is the only way to beat out incumbents, it's why Murkowski ran one of the most successful write-in campaigns in national history. ("In 2010 incumbent Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski lost the Republican primary to Joe Miller.[Independent] Following her defeat she ran in the general election as a write-in candidate. Murkowski had filed, and won, a lawsuit requiring election officials to have the list of names of write-in candidates distributed at the polls, and subsequently won the election with a wide enough margin over both Miller, and Democratic Party candidate Scott T. McAdams, to make moot the write-in ballots that had been challenged by Miller.")

The simple act of taking a trip to wave at the people and say the right things that one time goes a /long/ way up here. I'll also note she's not the only politician we have the 'straight R ticket vote' problem with, Walker rides the same train. It's how we ended up just handing over fucking $2m to the oil companies who have been raping us since the 70s heh

One of the tricks they use....threaten teachers are going to be fired, as new teachers then put out resumes before the end of the year......they tried that one on us years ago...the thing is...all new, first and second year teachers put out feelers for jobs because they don't know if they are coming back the next year anyway.......and then the budget for the year comes through and they keep their jobs...but they are used to show that teachers will be cut...when it is just the usual thing teachers do...new teachers without their tenure ......which they get in 2-3 years, then can't be fired if they suck...

"Can't "?

????

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OldLady I disagree, it goes back to the teachers union stopping teachers from getting fired. The union up here is massive, one of the largest in the nation, and they string us up regularly for raises, pensions, insurance, etc. We don't get a say because they'll do a "strike" and ten cities go down. They use it as a weapon, viciously. There's a reason the average teacher salary up here is creeping up on $70k/y + bens and it's not based on 'result' matrix's.

I don't particularly dislike teachers, at least not the good ones, but I do very much dislike the union.

Change your laws. Few teacher's unions nationwide do not have a no strike clause in their contracts. I have been a teacher for 20 years, in two states, and for the DoD. Pay raises and benefits are all dictated, not negotiated.

We have a law against government strikes but the teacher's unions often organize and carry out strikes one week before school starts for the purpose of causing as much mayhem as possible.

If they are under contract, that is a wildcat strike and illegal. They should all be fired and their teaching certificates revoked, That is what should happen.

Far too many education bashers are using old wive's tales and outright lies to back a non-existent position.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I had a nasty, nasty bulldyke of a gym teacher for three years who made life misery for me and a number of other girls who weren't her favorites. She was a miserable bitch but I didn't turn against the teaching profession because of it. You ever meet someone nasty and unfair at work? In your local PTA or church group? Some people are like that; they can pop up in a school, as well.
The sad thing is, a lot of teachers agree that the tenure laws allow burnt out teachers to stay too long. The reason for the law, though, isn't to protect lousy teachers. It goes straight back to the salary issue. School boards looking at a tight budget and a loudly protesting group of tax payers would fire any teacher about to go up in the pay scale. Whether someone is a good teacher or not can be very subjective and if you look closely enough with a dark enough pair of glasses, you will find reasons whether they exist or not. Some schools here are famous for hiring new teachers for two years and then when they would receive tenure and get a pay raise, the school doesn't renew and hires some other brand new "cheap" teachers.
I agree with you that firing an incompetent teacher should not be next to impossible. Just keep in mind that "incompetent" can be largely in the mind of the beholder, or a personality issue, as it was with you.

And that is where vouchers come in....under the current system.....bad teachers get paid no matter how bad....and without a block, boards would fire good teachers because they earn a lot...that is the problem with a socialist monopoly on education.....

With vouchers.....schools have an incentive to pay good teachers and keep them...because they want to please the customers.....the parents who choose where to use the voucher...and they have an incentive to get rid of the bad teachers....again, the parents who choose the school........

That is the magic of competition and why vouchers are so important.....we use vouchers for everything we do...it is called money......and if a business wants our money, they have to make us happy....when did the government have to make you happy?

If you don't think schools answer to their communities, their parents and their school board, you are sadly mistaken. It sounds as if "school choice" means the government will be flooding money into private schools that are apparently not beholden to tax payers or parents, except by the traffic through their doors. Maybe that will work as you describe. I don't know. But it raises a lot of questions, starting with where is all this money coming from? Is it just being taken from the public schools that are already gasping for funding in poorer neighborhoods with low tax bases?

What is it about freedom you guys don't get.......

Right now...if your kid is having a problem with a teacher...you have to fight the administration and then the school board to get the problem fixed....and if they won't help you....you have to move to another school district or pay out of your own pocket to send them to a good school...after your property taxes go to support the hell hole school in your neighborhood....

And with vouchers...if the school sucks...you pull your kid...and your voucher, and send them to another school......and guess what......schools will have to actually satisfy the customer by educating children....if they don't they don't get paid....

Each kid already gets a certain amount of money for school...you simply give them that amount in a voucher, to be used anywhere they want....just like the G.I. Bill.....and all the lefties love that program.....

Those poor public schools...are not going to improve no matter how much money you give them...because they don't have to...we have high schools in Chicago...built to hold 3,000 students...who only have 300 kids in them, with most of the building sealed off...because those black Chicagoans who could leave....left......

Vouchers will bring back those bad schools, they will allow better people to run them.....

Why is it you can sit in your home, with every modern convenience, created by competition, and freedom of choice, making them better and less expensive and more accessible to every economic level....yet you don't think the same thing will work when schools have to make their customers happy.......?

I didn't say it wouldn't work; I just asked a question. Not every place is Chicago, or inner city, where there are oodles of students and many schools within a relatively short traveling distance. In rural and suburban areas, our schools are doing fine but everyone is feeling the pinch, has been for years, keeping those public schools good. This one-size fits all program could pretty drastically erode what was once a functioning school system. That's all. I suppose we are going to find out if you are right. Well educated students are certainly a good thing and are important for our country. I'm just not sure it is appropriate for EVERY place.

Vouchers are the exact opposite of one size fits all....what we have now is one size fits all and it is destroying lives.

The reality of vouchers is that most people will go to the schools in their neighborhoods....because that is what they know....but vouchers will give a chance to the kids in hell hole schools to have a chance.

Do you think these schools are going to magically appear overnight? It simply does not happen. Sorry to burst your bubbles but those schools fail for financial reasons more often than not.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That's nice, you're clearly not in Alaska. Also, kudos you got me. I'd just gotten up and used the wrong word heh

Anyway, don't base the entire nation on your little world because it's absolutely irrelevant to mine.

First link I find on a bing search for Alaska teachers is from 2013-2014 and it's $65k - Alaska Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in AK | Teacher Portal

My info of $70k (knowing the way Alaskan's talk, rounding and shit, and given the above fact, it's likely $68-69K) came from the local news talking about the Anchorage School Districts budget deficit. We're having our annual row with them because they're threatening to fire 99 of our 1400 teachers because they're $15M short on their budget /yet again/ this year - a common tactic for our teachers union to use the firing of teachers as a threat whenever we try to get them to fix their damn budget. They always tell us that there is not a single admin/specialist position can be gotten rid of first, not a single expense can be cut down on, nope, its always straight to the threat of "we'll have to fire TONS of teachers." (Not that its even particularly a 'disaster' as we've put a ton of money into education funding so we could keep our class sizes down, as noted in my link 13 students per teacher. Still it pisses us tax payers off that cutting teachers and directly effecting our kids as punishment is /always/ their answer if we say we can't give them the $8-10 million /more/ they demand over what we give them [usually at least an additional $5M or so] in their budget. Every. Single. Year.)

This year it's particularly onerous because the state of Alaska has a $1.5T budget gap due to low oil prices and we've been forced to trim down /everything/ in order to make the budget solvent - to include us tax payers literally DYING on the streets because we had no choice but to cut road maintenance (the ruts are so bad on Tudor right now with the ice that the state and muni are instructing us not to use that lane [super icy right now due to the last pineapple express from Hawaii] just the other day a lady got flung into oncoming traffic and died,) and we've offered freely to pay a $0.75-$2.00/gallon tax on gas (we figure that we were paying $4-$5/gallon a couple years ago so we'll be okay to pay more now so we don't have to dip into our state budget reserve savings,) we're also talking about and agreeing that maybe we should instate an income tax for the first time in our history. -- We Alaskan's are not like lower 48er's. We truly want a balanced budget, we do not want nor like to spend more then we make as a state, and we are willing to pay more for the services we need/want (ie why Alaska has never had an income tax, we balance our budgets hell or high water, but frankly ACA is murdering us) - anyway this principle (right word heh) goes for the schools as well, however the unions, and the ASD in particular, are basically nothing more than a bunch of greedy thugs who blow money out their ass and don't want to be solvent on /anything/ (aka they act like lower 48ers heh)

See also - Earn More! Average Teacher Salary in Alaska, AK Teaching Salaries

The average teacher salary in Alaska was significantly higher than the national average for both 2008 and 2009. The national averages were $49,720 in 2009 and $48,353 in 2008. Teaching salaries in Alaska were $66,560 in 2009 and $56,655 in 2008.

From 2007 to 2008, teacher salary in Alaska rose by a small .42%, but from 2008 to 2009, there was an astonishing 17.48 percent increase. The average teacher salary in Alaska jumped from $56,655 to $66,560 from 2008 to 2009. This increase in 2009 resulted in a 17.98 percent increase in a two-year period.

Teacher salaries in Alaska went down in the national ranking between 2007 and 2008 from number 6 to number 8. Then, in 2009 teaching salaries in Alaska exploded to the number three ranking in the nation.

State Spending on Teachers

Salary expenditure on all teachers (including home schoolers, special education, non-certified teachers): $578,916,138
Benefits expenditures for teachers: $412,554,779
Instructional expenditures for teaching supplies: $57,778,645
Total current instructional expenditures per student (teacher salary and curriculum): $13,113
Total current expenditures per student: $25,033

----

Yea we tried to make a no strike law back in the early 80's but the supreme came back that it violates our State Constitution so we can't do it. The best we can do is arbitration (during which the union just flips us the bird and says "guess we'll fire all the teachers." ~fake tears~)

"Thus, I conclude that the exclusion of the teachers from the strike and arbitration provisions of AS 23.40.200 violates the equal protection clause of Alaska's constitution." - http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821641648P2d993_11627/ANCHORAGE EDUC. ASS'N v. ANCHORAGE SCH. DIST.

----

Do also keep in mind that Murkowski is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, so no we can't get fucking shit for laws passed to control our teachers unions, they are too damn big to stop.

"FAIRBANKS — The National Education Association — the largest teachers union in the United States — endorsed Sen. Lisa Murkowski in her re-election bid on Monday.

Murkowski is the senior of Alaska’s two sitting U.S. Senators, along with Dan Sullivan. A Republican, Murkowski has served in the U.S. Senate since 2002, when she was appointed by her father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski.

The National Education Association endorsed Murkowski over her several opponents, including Democrat Ray Metcalfe and non-affiliated candidate Margaret Stock.

Tim Parker, president of NEA-Alaska, the state branch of the national organization, said Murkowski has been an ally of education and of teachers in Alaska during her 14 years in the Senate." - National teachers union endorses Murkowski

"Murkowski received a 100 percent rating on a 2012 NEA Report Card, while Collins received a 75 percent rating—the only Republicans to earn marks above 50 percent from the group. Each senator has earned straight-A marks from the union since 2014.

Murkowski has long been a favorite of teachers unions. She was one of only four Republican senators to receive contributions from the NEA in 2016, hauling in $10,000, while the other three Republicans received only $3,200. She received the NEA's endorsement in 2010 when she won as an independent candidate after losing the GOP primary, and received it again in 2016. - GOP Defectors Have Received Thousands From Teachers Union [Murkowski, Collins]

-----

As I previously mentioned in this thread, a shit-ton of Alaskan's just vote a straight R ticket because they don't have time to keep up on political shit due to the unique nature of Alaska (with folks working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, or 6months on 6months off, out on the ocean or in the bush for half the year, etc. It can also be said there is an information deficiency as far as day-to-day politics go, a large chunk of our state barely has radio, much less tvs or newspapers that carry state or national news heh)

Basically we have a bit of a weird political system up here, nothing like the lower 48s. Up here grass roots is the only way to beat out incumbents, it's why Murkowski ran one of the most successful write-in campaigns in national history. ("In 2010 incumbent Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski lost the Republican primary to Joe Miller.[Independent] Following her defeat she ran in the general election as a write-in candidate. Murkowski had filed, and won, a lawsuit requiring election officials to have the list of names of write-in candidates distributed at the polls, and subsequently won the election with a wide enough margin over both Miller, and Democratic Party candidate Scott T. McAdams, to make moot the write-in ballots that had been challenged by Miller.")

The simple act of taking a trip to wave at the people and say the right things that one time goes a /long/ way up here. I'll also note she's not the only politician we have the 'straight R ticket vote' problem with, Walker rides the same train. It's how we ended up just handing over fucking $2m to the oil companies who have been raping us since the 70s heh

One of the tricks they use....threaten teachers are going to be fired, as new teachers then put out resumes before the end of the year......they tried that one on us years ago...the thing is...all new, first and second year teachers put out feelers for jobs because they don't know if they are coming back the next year anyway.......and then the budget for the year comes through and they keep their jobs...but they are used to show that teachers will be cut...when it is just the usual thing teachers do...new teachers without their tenure ......which they get in 2-3 years, then can't be fired if they suck...

What state gives tenure at the 2 year point?

Also, has been explained to the educator wannabees, we fire teachers with tenure all the time. Why do you persist in lying about that little tidbit?

 

[longknife]

Another phony thread. She simply went to another door and got inside to do what she was there for.

 

[Call Sign Chaos]

Wonderful, the people voted by protests all over the country. The GOP didn't listen to the people who they work for, not for people with money, she bought her job.

The protest was on November 8th you fucking idiot.

 

[Iceweasel]

OldLady I disagree, it goes back to the teachers union stopping teachers from getting fired. The union up here is massive, one of the largest in the nation, and they string us up regularly for raises, pensions, insurance, etc. We don't get a say because they'll do a "strike" and ten cities go down. They use it as a weapon, viciously. There's a reason the average teacher salary up here is creeping up on $70k/y + bens and it's not based on 'result' matrix's.

I don't particularly dislike teachers, at least not the good ones, but I do very much dislike the union.

Change your laws. Few teacher's unions nationwide do not have a no strike clause in their contracts. I have been a teacher for 20 years, in two states, and for the DoD. Pay raises and benefits are all dictated, not negotiated.

We have a law against government strikes but the teacher's unions often organize and carry out strikes one week before school starts for the purpose of causing as much mayhem as possible.

If they are under contract, that is a wildcat strike and illegal. They should all be fired and their teaching certificates revoked, That is what should happen.

Far too many education bashers are using old wive's tales and outright lies to back a non-existent position.

It is illegal for any government workers to strike here but the Dems own the courts.

 

[2aguy]

And that is where vouchers come in....under the current system.....bad teachers get paid no matter how bad....and without a block, boards would fire good teachers because they earn a lot...that is the problem with a socialist monopoly on education.....

With vouchers.....schools have an incentive to pay good teachers and keep them...because they want to please the customers.....the parents who choose where to use the voucher...and they have an incentive to get rid of the bad teachers....again, the parents who choose the school........

That is the magic of competition and why vouchers are so important.....we use vouchers for everything we do...it is called money......and if a business wants our money, they have to make us happy....when did the government have to make you happy?

If you don't think schools answer to their communities, their parents and their school board, you are sadly mistaken. It sounds as if "school choice" means the government will be flooding money into private schools that are apparently not beholden to tax payers or parents, except by the traffic through their doors. Maybe that will work as you describe. I don't know. But it raises a lot of questions, starting with where is all this money coming from? Is it just being taken from the public schools that are already gasping for funding in poorer neighborhoods with low tax bases?

What is it about freedom you guys don't get.......

Right now...if your kid is having a problem with a teacher...you have to fight the administration and then the school board to get the problem fixed....and if they won't help you....you have to move to another school district or pay out of your own pocket to send them to a good school...after your property taxes go to support the hell hole school in your neighborhood....

And with vouchers...if the school sucks...you pull your kid...and your voucher, and send them to another school......and guess what......schools will have to actually satisfy the customer by educating children....if they don't they don't get paid....

Each kid already gets a certain amount of money for school...you simply give them that amount in a voucher, to be used anywhere they want....just like the G.I. Bill.....and all the lefties love that program.....

Those poor public schools...are not going to improve no matter how much money you give them...because they don't have to...we have high schools in Chicago...built to hold 3,000 students...who only have 300 kids in them, with most of the building sealed off...because those black Chicagoans who could leave....left......

Vouchers will bring back those bad schools, they will allow better people to run them.....

Why is it you can sit in your home, with every modern convenience, created by competition, and freedom of choice, making them better and less expensive and more accessible to every economic level....yet you don't think the same thing will work when schools have to make their customers happy.......?

I didn't say it wouldn't work; I just asked a question. Not every place is Chicago, or inner city, where there are oodles of students and many schools within a relatively short traveling distance. In rural and suburban areas, our schools are doing fine but everyone is feeling the pinch, has been for years, keeping those public schools good. This one-size fits all program could pretty drastically erode what was once a functioning school system. That's all. I suppose we are going to find out if you are right. Well educated students are certainly a good thing and are important for our country. I'm just not sure it is appropriate for EVERY place.

Vouchers are the exact opposite of one size fits all....what we have now is one size fits all and it is destroying lives.

The reality of vouchers is that most people will go to the schools in their neighborhoods....because that is what they know....but vouchers will give a chance to the kids in hell hole schools to have a chance.

Do you think these schools are going to magically appear overnight? It simply does not happen. Sorry to burst your bubbles but those schools fail for financial reasons more often than not.

Overnight....nice to see the standard has changed...since public schools have been failing our kids consistently in the inner cities for decades.....and why do they fail......parents have to pay property taxes to support the hell hole schools...then scrape up enough from their income to pay for private or religous schools if they want their kiids to be able to read, write and do math......vouchers change that...

More schools will open, with better teachers.

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That's nice, you're clearly not in Alaska. Also, kudos you got me. I'd just gotten up and used the wrong word heh

Anyway, don't base the entire nation on your little world because it's absolutely irrelevant to mine.

First link I find on a bing search for Alaska teachers is from 2013-2014 and it's $65k - Alaska Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in AK | Teacher Portal

My info of $70k (knowing the way Alaskan's talk, rounding and shit, and given the above fact, it's likely $68-69K) came from the local news talking about the Anchorage School Districts budget deficit. We're having our annual row with them because they're threatening to fire 99 of our 1400 teachers because they're $15M short on their budget /yet again/ this year - a common tactic for our teachers union to use the firing of teachers as a threat whenever we try to get them to fix their damn budget. They always tell us that there is not a single admin/specialist position can be gotten rid of first, not a single expense can be cut down on, nope, its always straight to the threat of "we'll have to fire TONS of teachers." (Not that its even particularly a 'disaster' as we've put a ton of money into education funding so we could keep our class sizes down, as noted in my link 13 students per teacher. Still it pisses us tax payers off that cutting teachers and directly effecting our kids as punishment is /always/ their answer if we say we can't give them the $8-10 million /more/ they demand over what we give them [usually at least an additional $5M or so] in their budget. Every. Single. Year.)

This year it's particularly onerous because the state of Alaska has a $1.5T budget gap due to low oil prices and we've been forced to trim down /everything/ in order to make the budget solvent - to include us tax payers literally DYING on the streets because we had no choice but to cut road maintenance (the ruts are so bad on Tudor right now with the ice that the state and muni are instructing us not to use that lane [super icy right now due to the last pineapple express from Hawaii] just the other day a lady got flung into oncoming traffic and died,) and we've offered freely to pay a $0.75-$2.00/gallon tax on gas (we figure that we were paying $4-$5/gallon a couple years ago so we'll be okay to pay more now so we don't have to dip into our state budget reserve savings,) we're also talking about and agreeing that maybe we should instate an income tax for the first time in our history. -- We Alaskan's are not like lower 48er's. We truly want a balanced budget, we do not want nor like to spend more then we make as a state, and we are willing to pay more for the services we need/want (ie why Alaska has never had an income tax, we balance our budgets hell or high water, but frankly ACA is murdering us) - anyway this principle (right word heh) goes for the schools as well, however the unions, and the ASD in particular, are basically nothing more than a bunch of greedy thugs who blow money out their ass and don't want to be solvent on /anything/ (aka they act like lower 48ers heh)

See also - Earn More! Average Teacher Salary in Alaska, AK Teaching Salaries

The average teacher salary in Alaska was significantly higher than the national average for both 2008 and 2009. The national averages were $49,720 in 2009 and $48,353 in 2008. Teaching salaries in Alaska were $66,560 in 2009 and $56,655 in 2008.

From 2007 to 2008, teacher salary in Alaska rose by a small .42%, but from 2008 to 2009, there was an astonishing 17.48 percent increase. The average teacher salary in Alaska jumped from $56,655 to $66,560 from 2008 to 2009. This increase in 2009 resulted in a 17.98 percent increase in a two-year period.

Teacher salaries in Alaska went down in the national ranking between 2007 and 2008 from number 6 to number 8. Then, in 2009 teaching salaries in Alaska exploded to the number three ranking in the nation.

State Spending on Teachers

Salary expenditure on all teachers (including home schoolers, special education, non-certified teachers): $578,916,138
Benefits expenditures for teachers: $412,554,779
Instructional expenditures for teaching supplies: $57,778,645
Total current instructional expenditures per student (teacher salary and curriculum): $13,113
Total current expenditures per student: $25,033

----

Yea we tried to make a no strike law back in the early 80's but the supreme came back that it violates our State Constitution so we can't do it. The best we can do is arbitration (during which the union just flips us the bird and says "guess we'll fire all the teachers." ~fake tears~)

"Thus, I conclude that the exclusion of the teachers from the strike and arbitration provisions of AS 23.40.200 violates the equal protection clause of Alaska's constitution." - http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821641648P2d993_11627/ANCHORAGE EDUC. ASS'N v. ANCHORAGE SCH. DIST.

----

Do also keep in mind that Murkowski is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, so no we can't get fucking shit for laws passed to control our teachers unions, they are too damn big to stop.

"FAIRBANKS — The National Education Association — the largest teachers union in the United States — endorsed Sen. Lisa Murkowski in her re-election bid on Monday.

Murkowski is the senior of Alaska’s two sitting U.S. Senators, along with Dan Sullivan. A Republican, Murkowski has served in the U.S. Senate since 2002, when she was appointed by her father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski.

The National Education Association endorsed Murkowski over her several opponents, including Democrat Ray Metcalfe and non-affiliated candidate Margaret Stock.

Tim Parker, president of NEA-Alaska, the state branch of the national organization, said Murkowski has been an ally of education and of teachers in Alaska during her 14 years in the Senate." - National teachers union endorses Murkowski

"Murkowski received a 100 percent rating on a 2012 NEA Report Card, while Collins received a 75 percent rating—the only Republicans to earn marks above 50 percent from the group. Each senator has earned straight-A marks from the union since 2014.

Murkowski has long been a favorite of teachers unions. She was one of only four Republican senators to receive contributions from the NEA in 2016, hauling in $10,000, while the other three Republicans received only $3,200. She received the NEA's endorsement in 2010 when she won as an independent candidate after losing the GOP primary, and received it again in 2016. - GOP Defectors Have Received Thousands From Teachers Union [Murkowski, Collins]

-----

As I previously mentioned in this thread, a shit-ton of Alaskan's just vote a straight R ticket because they don't have time to keep up on political shit due to the unique nature of Alaska (with folks working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, or 6months on 6months off, out on the ocean or in the bush for half the year, etc. It can also be said there is an information deficiency as far as day-to-day politics go, a large chunk of our state barely has radio, much less tvs or newspapers that carry state or national news heh)

Basically we have a bit of a weird political system up here, nothing like the lower 48s. Up here grass roots is the only way to beat out incumbents, it's why Murkowski ran one of the most successful write-in campaigns in national history. ("In 2010 incumbent Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski lost the Republican primary to Joe Miller.[Independent] Following her defeat she ran in the general election as a write-in candidate. Murkowski had filed, and won, a lawsuit requiring election officials to have the list of names of write-in candidates distributed at the polls, and subsequently won the election with a wide enough margin over both Miller, and Democratic Party candidate Scott T. McAdams, to make moot the write-in ballots that had been challenged by Miller.")

The simple act of taking a trip to wave at the people and say the right things that one time goes a /long/ way up here. I'll also note she's not the only politician we have the 'straight R ticket vote' problem with, Walker rides the same train. It's how we ended up just handing over fucking $2m to the oil companies who have been raping us since the 70s heh

One of the tricks they use....threaten teachers are going to be fired, as new teachers then put out resumes before the end of the year......they tried that one on us years ago...the thing is...all new, first and second year teachers put out feelers for jobs because they don't know if they are coming back the next year anyway.......and then the budget for the year comes through and they keep their jobs...but they are used to show that teachers will be cut...when it is just the usual thing teachers do...new teachers without their tenure ......which they get in 2-3 years, then can't be fired if they suck...

What state gives tenure at the 2 year point?

Also, has been explained to the educator wannabees, we fire teachers with tenure all the time. Why do you persist in lying about that little tidbit?

Sorry.....you are wrong...our schools use to have a 2 year tenure period and they moved it 3 years......and try firing a teacher with tenure.....especially in these inner city money laundering operatons you call schools...

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

That's nice, you're clearly not in Alaska. Also, kudos you got me. I'd just gotten up and used the wrong word heh

Anyway, don't base the entire nation on your little world because it's absolutely irrelevant to mine.

First link I find on a bing search for Alaska teachers is from 2013-2014 and it's $65k - Alaska Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in AK | Teacher Portal

My info of $70k (knowing the way Alaskan's talk, rounding and shit, and given the above fact, it's likely $68-69K) came from the local news talking about the Anchorage School Districts budget deficit. We're having our annual row with them because they're threatening to fire 99 of our 1400 teachers because they're $15M short on their budget /yet again/ this year - a common tactic for our teachers union to use the firing of teachers as a threat whenever we try to get them to fix their damn budget. They always tell us that there is not a single admin/specialist position can be gotten rid of first, not a single expense can be cut down on, nope, its always straight to the threat of "we'll have to fire TONS of teachers." (Not that its even particularly a 'disaster' as we've put a ton of money into education funding so we could keep our class sizes down, as noted in my link 13 students per teacher. Still it pisses us tax payers off that cutting teachers and directly effecting our kids as punishment is /always/ their answer if we say we can't give them the $8-10 million /more/ they demand over what we give them [usually at least an additional $5M or so] in their budget. Every. Single. Year.)

This year it's particularly onerous because the state of Alaska has a $1.5T budget gap due to low oil prices and we've been forced to trim down /everything/ in order to make the budget solvent - to include us tax payers literally DYING on the streets because we had no choice but to cut road maintenance (the ruts are so bad on Tudor right now with the ice that the state and muni are instructing us not to use that lane [super icy right now due to the last pineapple express from Hawaii] just the other day a lady got flung into oncoming traffic and died,) and we've offered freely to pay a $0.75-$2.00/gallon tax on gas (we figure that we were paying $4-$5/gallon a couple years ago so we'll be okay to pay more now so we don't have to dip into our state budget reserve savings,) we're also talking about and agreeing that maybe we should instate an income tax for the first time in our history. -- We Alaskan's are not like lower 48er's. We truly want a balanced budget, we do not want nor like to spend more then we make as a state, and we are willing to pay more for the services we need/want (ie why Alaska has never had an income tax, we balance our budgets hell or high water, but frankly ACA is murdering us) - anyway this principle (right word heh) goes for the schools as well, however the unions, and the ASD in particular, are basically nothing more than a bunch of greedy thugs who blow money out their ass and don't want to be solvent on /anything/ (aka they act like lower 48ers heh)

See also - Earn More! Average Teacher Salary in Alaska, AK Teaching Salaries

The average teacher salary in Alaska was significantly higher than the national average for both 2008 and 2009. The national averages were $49,720 in 2009 and $48,353 in 2008. Teaching salaries in Alaska were $66,560 in 2009 and $56,655 in 2008.

From 2007 to 2008, teacher salary in Alaska rose by a small .42%, but from 2008 to 2009, there was an astonishing 17.48 percent increase. The average teacher salary in Alaska jumped from $56,655 to $66,560 from 2008 to 2009. This increase in 2009 resulted in a 17.98 percent increase in a two-year period.

Teacher salaries in Alaska went down in the national ranking between 2007 and 2008 from number 6 to number 8. Then, in 2009 teaching salaries in Alaska exploded to the number three ranking in the nation.

State Spending on Teachers

Salary expenditure on all teachers (including home schoolers, special education, non-certified teachers): $578,916,138
Benefits expenditures for teachers: $412,554,779
Instructional expenditures for teaching supplies: $57,778,645
Total current instructional expenditures per student (teacher salary and curriculum): $13,113
Total current expenditures per student: $25,033

----

Yea we tried to make a no strike law back in the early 80's but the supreme came back that it violates our State Constitution so we can't do it. The best we can do is arbitration (during which the union just flips us the bird and says "guess we'll fire all the teachers." ~fake tears~)

"Thus, I conclude that the exclusion of the teachers from the strike and arbitration provisions of AS 23.40.200 violates the equal protection clause of Alaska's constitution." - http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821641648P2d993_11627/ANCHORAGE EDUC. ASS'N v. ANCHORAGE SCH. DIST.

----

Do also keep in mind that Murkowski is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, so no we can't get fucking shit for laws passed to control our teachers unions, they are too damn big to stop.

"FAIRBANKS — The National Education Association — the largest teachers union in the United States — endorsed Sen. Lisa Murkowski in her re-election bid on Monday.

Murkowski is the senior of Alaska’s two sitting U.S. Senators, along with Dan Sullivan. A Republican, Murkowski has served in the U.S. Senate since 2002, when she was appointed by her father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski.

The National Education Association endorsed Murkowski over her several opponents, including Democrat Ray Metcalfe and non-affiliated candidate Margaret Stock.

Tim Parker, president of NEA-Alaska, the state branch of the national organization, said Murkowski has been an ally of education and of teachers in Alaska during her 14 years in the Senate." - National teachers union endorses Murkowski

"Murkowski received a 100 percent rating on a 2012 NEA Report Card, while Collins received a 75 percent rating—the only Republicans to earn marks above 50 percent from the group. Each senator has earned straight-A marks from the union since 2014.

Murkowski has long been a favorite of teachers unions. She was one of only four Republican senators to receive contributions from the NEA in 2016, hauling in $10,000, while the other three Republicans received only $3,200. She received the NEA's endorsement in 2010 when she won as an independent candidate after losing the GOP primary, and received it again in 2016. - GOP Defectors Have Received Thousands From Teachers Union [Murkowski, Collins]

-----

As I previously mentioned in this thread, a shit-ton of Alaskan's just vote a straight R ticket because they don't have time to keep up on political shit due to the unique nature of Alaska (with folks working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, or 6months on 6months off, out on the ocean or in the bush for half the year, etc. It can also be said there is an information deficiency as far as day-to-day politics go, a large chunk of our state barely has radio, much less tvs or newspapers that carry state or national news heh)

Basically we have a bit of a weird political system up here, nothing like the lower 48s. Up here grass roots is the only way to beat out incumbents, it's why Murkowski ran one of the most successful write-in campaigns in national history. ("In 2010 incumbent Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski lost the Republican primary to Joe Miller.[Independent] Following her defeat she ran in the general election as a write-in candidate. Murkowski had filed, and won, a lawsuit requiring election officials to have the list of names of write-in candidates distributed at the polls, and subsequently won the election with a wide enough margin over both Miller, and Democratic Party candidate Scott T. McAdams, to make moot the write-in ballots that had been challenged by Miller.")

The simple act of taking a trip to wave at the people and say the right things that one time goes a /long/ way up here. I'll also note she's not the only politician we have the 'straight R ticket vote' problem with, Walker rides the same train. It's how we ended up just handing over fucking $2m to the oil companies who have been raping us since the 70s heh

One of the tricks they use....threaten teachers are going to be fired, as new teachers then put out resumes before the end of the year......they tried that one on us years ago...the thing is...all new, first and second year teachers put out feelers for jobs because they don't know if they are coming back the next year anyway.......and then the budget for the year comes through and they keep their jobs...but they are used to show that teachers will be cut...when it is just the usual thing teachers do...new teachers without their tenure ......which they get in 2-3 years, then can't be fired if they suck...

"Can't "?

????

It is almost impossible and costs a lot of money to fire a bad teacher who has tenure.