Berkeley Earth Project

[IanC]

your link to ICCER is very revealing to the whole problem of climate science.

The Review team
The Independent Climate Change Email Review is being conducted by an expert team, led by Sir Muir Russell KCB DL FRSE. The Review team has more than 100 years’ collective expertise of scientific research methodology and a wide range of scientific backgrounds.

None have any links to the Climatic Research Unit, or the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). More information about each of the review team members can be found in the Biographies section.

I remembered there had been a flap at the time about the choices, with at least one pick quickly excusing himself for bias. Another, Geoffrey Boulton, worked for UEA for 18 years in environmental sciences and had publicly spoken out about the emails!

He notes that Professor Boulton….

spent 18 years at the school of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia
works in an office almost next door to a member of the Hockey Team
says the argument over climate change is over
tours the country lecturing on the dangers of climate change
believes the Himalayan glaciers will be gone by 2050
signed up to a statement supporting the consensus in the wake of Climategate, which spoke of scientists adhering to the highest standards of integrity
could fairly be described as a global warming doommonger
is quite happy to discuss “denial” in the context of the climate debate.

from Climategate: the official cover-up continues – Telegraph Blogs

anyways, I digress. Trakar- do you know the timelines involved of the various papers submitted for IPCC AR4 in an attempt to keep the Hockey Stick? that is what a lot of climategate is about and where the obvious problems are, including the emails that were/were not deleted in a coverup. here is the story and time line. it doesnt go into a lot of the technical stuff, just facts and figures on what was and wasnt published in which journals and when, with respect to IPCC protocols. - Bishop Hill blog - Caspar and the Jesus paper

do you think it is reasonable that neither of the english inquiries took testimony from witnesses who were in any way adversarial to UEA?
And you perceive this as relevent to the scope and nature of the investigations how?

It is odd that you don't think probing into the dark corners would have been useful. time and again the statements coming from UEA and the climategate principals have been shown to be false or misdirectional. Certainly Stringer found out with the HP inquiries that they were very hard to pin down and that their stories of plausible deniability are hard to push through without time and inclination to get to the truth.

 

[Old Rocks]

By now there has been at least a dozen and a half serious remakes of the 'hockey stick' graph. While they have made that graph much more lumpy, the result still stands. A very rapid increase in temperatures over the last 150 years.

 

[asterism]

By now there has been at least a dozen and a half serious remakes of the 'hockey stick' graph. While they have made that graph much more lumpy, the result still stands. A very rapid increase in temperatures over the last 150 years.

Using what equipment placed where?

surface stations

 

[IanC]

[ QUOTE=Old Rocks;3386964]By now there has been at least a dozen and a half serious remakes of the 'hockey stick' graph. While they have made that graph much more lumpy, the result still stands. A very rapid increase in temperatures over the last 150 years.[/QUOTE]


and most of those remakes still 'hide the decline' and use seriously flawed statistical methodology. why arent they using up to date now that it is available?

 

[Trakar]

... Climategate: the official cover-up continues – Telegraph Blogs

and a wild swing and a miss! Strike One!
not just a tabloid, but a blatantly partisan crackpot tabloid blog,..your luck that wasn't a foul-tip out!

...- Bishop Hill blog - Caspar and the Jesus*paper

A jerky chop at the pitch, foul-tip...owww, just off the edge of the catcher's mitt and the count moves to 0-2!
Yes, Virginnia there are conspiracy-loving, pseudoscience crackpot bloggers worse than Delingpole!

...It is odd that you don't think probing into the dark corners would have been useful. time and again the statements coming from UEA and the climategate principals have been shown to be false or misdirectional. Certainly Stringer found out with the HP inquiries that they were very hard to pin down and that their stories of plausible deniability are hard to push through without time and inclination to get to the truth.

A mighty swing and a crack! the ball flies almost straight up, the catcher rips off his mask but loses the ball in the overhead sun and it drops to the ground behind the batter's box. Count remains 0-2

Fishing trips, witchhunts and inquisitions are more the providence of dictatorial ideologues who have made up their minds in advance of evidences and are merely seeking to find ways to rationalize their preconceptions.

So ready to support your assertions with any solid, compelling evidences, or are you going to keep flinging unsupported mud looking for something that will might stick and be cheered by those who aren't interested in actual evidences and facts?

 

[Trakar]

Using what equipment placed where?

surface stations

The "hockey stick" isn't about modern data so much as it is historical data. If you wish to discuss the modern data in reference to the pseudoscience political rantings of surface stations.org, however, that might be interesting. So what happens to a graph of the modern temperature data if we remove all the data from the stations that site identifies as questionable?

 

[Trakar]

...and most of those remakes still 'hide the decline' and use seriously flawed statistical methodology. why arent they using up to date now that it is available?

What do you believe "hide the decline" refers to?

What leads you to believe that up-to-date data is not used in contemporary examinations of the issue?

 

[westwall]

Using what equipment placed where?

surface stations

The "hockey stick" isn't about modern data so much as it is historical data. If you wish to discuss the modern data in reference to the pseudoscience political rantings of surface stations.org, however, that might be interesting. So what happens to a graph of the modern temperature data if we remove all the data from the stations that site identifies as questionable?

That's correct and Mann used incomplete and erroneous data to construct his stick. Not only that but he ignored the predominant factor in tree growth, namely availability of water. Instead he attributed all things to warmth or the lack therof. In other words greatly flawed science. But I'll let Woods Hole speak on this subject.


"A new 2,000-year-long reconstruction of sea surface temperatures (SST) from the Indo-Pacific warm pool (IPWP) suggests that temperatures in the region may have been as warm during the Medieval Warm Period as they are today.

The IPWP is the largest body of warm water in the world, and, as a result, it is the largest source of heat and moisture to the global atmosphere, and an important component of the planet’s climate. Climate models suggest that global mean temperatures are particularly sensitive to sea surface temperatures in the IPWP. Understanding the past history of the region is of great importance for placing current warming trends in a global context.

The study is published in the journal Nature.

In a joint project with the Indonesian Ministry of Science and Technology (BPPT), the study’s authors, Delia Oppo, a paleo–oceanographer with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, and her colleagues Yair Rosenthal of Rutgers State University and Braddock K. Linsley of the University at Albany-State University of New York, collected sediment cores along the continental margin of the Indonesian Seas and used chemical analyses to estimate water past temperatures and date the sediment. The cruise included 13 US and 14 Indonesian scientists.

“This is the first record from the region that has really modern sediments and a record of the last two millennia, allowing us to place recent trends in a larger framework,” notes Oppo.

Global temperature records are predominantly reconstructed from tree rings and ice cores. Very little ocean data are used to generate temperature reconstructions, and very little data from the tropics. “As palaeoclimatologists, we work to generate information from multiple sources to improve confidence in the global temperature reconstructions, and our study contributes to scientists’ efforts towards that goal,” adds Oppo.

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”


News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution


And of course there is Dr. Happers comments on the Hockey Stick.

 

[asterism]

Using what equipment placed where?

surface stations

The "hockey stick" isn't about modern data so much as it is historical data. If you wish to discuss the modern data in reference to the pseudoscience political rantings of surface stations.org, however, that might be interesting. So what happens to a graph of the modern temperature data if we remove all the data from the stations that site identifies as questionable?

The current trend predictions are rendered incomplete because there isn't enough data. The empirical data becomes unusable due to not enough samples.

 

[Old Rocks]

Using what equipment placed where?

surface stations

The "hockey stick" isn't about modern data so much as it is historical data. If you wish to discuss the modern data in reference to the pseudoscience political rantings of surface stations.org, however, that might be interesting. So what happens to a graph of the modern temperature data if we remove all the data from the stations that site identifies as questionable?

That's correct and Mann used incomplete and erroneous data to construct his stick. Not only that but he ignored the predominant factor in tree growth, namely availability of water. Instead he attributed all things to warmth or the lack therof. In other words greatly flawed science. But I'll let Woods Hole speak on this subject.


"A new 2,000-year-long reconstruction of sea surface temperatures (SST) from the Indo-Pacific warm pool (IPWP) suggests that temperatures in the region may have been as warm during the Medieval Warm Period as they are today.

The IPWP is the largest body of warm water in the world, and, as a result, it is the largest source of heat and moisture to the global atmosphere, and an important component of the planet’s climate. Climate models suggest that global mean temperatures are particularly sensitive to sea surface temperatures in the IPWP. Understanding the past history of the region is of great importance for placing current warming trends in a global context.

The study is published in the journal Nature.

In a joint project with the Indonesian Ministry of Science and Technology (BPPT), the study’s authors, Delia Oppo, a paleo–oceanographer with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, and her colleagues Yair Rosenthal of Rutgers State University and Braddock K. Linsley of the University at Albany-State University of New York, collected sediment cores along the continental margin of the Indonesian Seas and used chemical analyses to estimate water past temperatures and date the sediment. The cruise included 13 US and 14 Indonesian scientists.

“This is the first record from the region that has really modern sediments and a record of the last two millennia, allowing us to place recent trends in a larger framework,” notes Oppo.

Global temperature records are predominantly reconstructed from tree rings and ice cores. Very little ocean data are used to generate temperature reconstructions, and very little data from the tropics. “As palaeoclimatologists, we work to generate information from multiple sources to improve confidence in the global temperature reconstructions, and our study contributes to scientists’ efforts towards that goal,” adds Oppo.

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”


News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution


And of course there is Dr. Happers comments on the Hockey Stick.

"Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century."

Walleyes, I do believe that you have made fun, in other posts, of the fact that the total estimated rise in temperature for the present warming is only 0.7 C. Yet here we have a Wood Hole paper stating that the rise for the MWP was only 0.2 C.

 

[westwall]

The "hockey stick" isn't about modern data so much as it is historical data. If you wish to discuss the modern data in reference to the pseudoscience political rantings of surface stations.org, however, that might be interesting. So what happens to a graph of the modern temperature data if we remove all the data from the stations that site identifies as questionable?

That's correct and Mann used incomplete and erroneous data to construct his stick. Not only that but he ignored the predominant factor in tree growth, namely availability of water. Instead he attributed all things to warmth or the lack therof. In other words greatly flawed science. But I'll let Woods Hole speak on this subject.


"A new 2,000-year-long reconstruction of sea surface temperatures (SST) from the Indo-Pacific warm pool (IPWP) suggests that temperatures in the region may have been as warm during the Medieval Warm Period as they are today.

The IPWP is the largest body of warm water in the world, and, as a result, it is the largest source of heat and moisture to the global atmosphere, and an important component of the planet’s climate. Climate models suggest that global mean temperatures are particularly sensitive to sea surface temperatures in the IPWP. Understanding the past history of the region is of great importance for placing current warming trends in a global context.

The study is published in the journal Nature.

In a joint project with the Indonesian Ministry of Science and Technology (BPPT), the study’s authors, Delia Oppo, a paleo–oceanographer with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, and her colleagues Yair Rosenthal of Rutgers State University and Braddock K. Linsley of the University at Albany-State University of New York, collected sediment cores along the continental margin of the Indonesian Seas and used chemical analyses to estimate water past temperatures and date the sediment. The cruise included 13 US and 14 Indonesian scientists.

“This is the first record from the region that has really modern sediments and a record of the last two millennia, allowing us to place recent trends in a larger framework,” notes Oppo.

Global temperature records are predominantly reconstructed from tree rings and ice cores. Very little ocean data are used to generate temperature reconstructions, and very little data from the tropics. “As palaeoclimatologists, we work to generate information from multiple sources to improve confidence in the global temperature reconstructions, and our study contributes to scientists’ efforts towards that goal,” adds Oppo.

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”


News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution


And of course there is Dr. Happers comments on the Hockey Stick.

"Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century."

Walleyes, I do believe that you have made fun, in other posts, of the fact that the total estimated rise in temperature for the present warming is only 0.7 C. Yet here we have a Wood Hole paper stating that the rise for the MWP was only 0.2 C.

In the area of the study, are you really that dense?

 

[Old Rocks]

That's correct and Mann used incomplete and erroneous data to construct his stick. Not only that but he ignored the predominant factor in tree growth, namely availability of water. Instead he attributed all things to warmth or the lack therof. In other words greatly flawed science. But I'll let Woods Hole speak on this subject.


"A new 2,000-year-long reconstruction of sea surface temperatures (SST) from the Indo-Pacific warm pool (IPWP) suggests that temperatures in the region may have been as warm during the Medieval Warm Period as they are today.

The IPWP is the largest body of warm water in the world, and, as a result, it is the largest source of heat and moisture to the global atmosphere, and an important component of the planet’s climate. Climate models suggest that global mean temperatures are particularly sensitive to sea surface temperatures in the IPWP. Understanding the past history of the region is of great importance for placing current warming trends in a global context.

The study is published in the journal Nature.

In a joint project with the Indonesian Ministry of Science and Technology (BPPT), the study’s authors, Delia Oppo, a paleo–oceanographer with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, and her colleagues Yair Rosenthal of Rutgers State University and Braddock K. Linsley of the University at Albany-State University of New York, collected sediment cores along the continental margin of the Indonesian Seas and used chemical analyses to estimate water past temperatures and date the sediment. The cruise included 13 US and 14 Indonesian scientists.

“This is the first record from the region that has really modern sediments and a record of the last two millennia, allowing us to place recent trends in a larger framework,” notes Oppo.

Global temperature records are predominantly reconstructed from tree rings and ice cores. Very little ocean data are used to generate temperature reconstructions, and very little data from the tropics. “As palaeoclimatologists, we work to generate information from multiple sources to improve confidence in the global temperature reconstructions, and our study contributes to scientists’ efforts towards that goal,” adds Oppo.

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”


News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution


And of course there is Dr. Happers comments on the Hockey Stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg-frkJBxm4&feature=player_embedded

"Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century."

Walleyes, I do believe that you have made fun, in other posts, of the fact that the total estimated rise in temperature for the present warming is only 0.7 C. Yet here we have a Wood Hole paper stating that the rise for the MWP was only 0.2 C.

In the area of the study, are you really that dense?

LOL. Area of the study? It states "Northern Hemisphere"! Northern Hemisphere, last time I looked included the whole of the globe north of the equator. Perhaps you have a differant interpretation?

"Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century

 

[westwall]

"Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century."

Walleyes, I do believe that you have made fun, in other posts, of the fact that the total estimated rise in temperature for the present warming is only 0.7 C. Yet here we have a Wood Hole paper stating that the rise for the MWP was only 0.2 C.

In the area of the study, are you really that dense?

LOL. Area of the study? It states "Northern Hemisphere"! Northern Hemisphere, last time I looked included the whole of the globe north of the equator. Perhaps you have a differant interpretation?

"Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century

The bit you left off because it damns you for a liar,

However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.




Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”


That's called lying by omission you fool.

 

[IanC]

[ QUOTE=Trakar;3388525]

Using what equipment placed where?

surface stations

The "hockey stick" isn't about modern data so much as it is historical data. If you wish to discuss the modern data in reference to the pseudoscience political rantings of surface stations.org, however, that might be interesting. So what happens to a graph of the modern temperature data if we remove all the data from the stations that site identifies as questionable?[/QUOTE]


that's a trick question because much of the increase is due to adjustments and mishandled UHI. the main point of surfacestations is to show how shoddy the collection of data is. every area that comes under scrutiny shows slovenly work.

hide the decline means the antiscientific practise of ignoring data that disagrees with your premise. the hockey stick and its progeny are excellent examples of that.

I'll be back when I have time

 

[Old Rocks]

My goodness, Ian, look at the graph from the site that Walleyes posted.

Image : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Lordy, lordy, a lumpy hockey stick. Whadaya know! Ol' Walleyes done turned traitor on you.

 

[skookerasbil]

LMAO.......from the video........"hockey stick graph is so clearly fraudulent...."

 

[skookerasbil]

My goodness, Ian, look at the graph from the site that Walleyes posted.

Image : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Lordy, lordy, a lumpy hockey stick. Whadaya know! Ol' Walleyes done turned traitor on you.

s0n............you are one fascinating brainwashed mofu. Anybody on the face of the earth that thinks that this temperature/climate change stuff is about science has a plate in their head. Its that simple.............and what is by far the most interesting is to see science trample on the most fundemental principles of "science".

From Merriam/Websters Dictionary................

Definition of SCIENCE. 1: the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding


How interesting that todays "scientific consensus" on climate change totally violates that definition!!!

 

[IanC]

My goodness, Ian, look at the graph from the site that Walleyes posted.

Image : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Lordy, lordy, a lumpy hockey stick. Whadaya know! Ol' Walleyes done turned traitor on you.

the black line on that graph which has the hockey stick shape is clearly marked 'Mann Data'

 

[IanC]

LMAO.......from the video........"hockey stick graph is so clearly fraudulent...."

hey skooks. this video tells the tale of 'hide the decline'. finally someone chopped out the five relevant minutes out of the 52 min original lecture by the same guy who is organizing the berleley data set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8BQpciw8suk

getting the picture on what 'hide the decline' means yet Trakar?

 

[xsited1]

My goodness, Ian, look at the graph from the site that Walleyes posted.

Image : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Lordy, lordy, a lumpy hockey stick. Whadaya know! Ol' Walleyes done turned traitor on you.

the black line on that graph which has the hockey stick shape is clearly marked 'Mann Data'

Yes, it is. It is so depressing to witness Scientists lying just to get more grants and accolades. It happens more than anyone might think. And unfortunately, many scientists are incredibly closed-minded. They've turned their current understanding of their chosen scientific field into kind of a religion and will not accept anything that upsets the status quo, but that's been going on for centuries so I don't expect it end anytime soon.