Battleships

[DrainBamage]

This topic comes up every once in awhile, where people are advocating bringing back battleships again. I find it an interesting debate, with additional ammunition (literally) being Zumwalt and it's shore bombardment role, the logic being if USN believes in the fire support role enough to design/build the Zuggys then there is a role for Iowa class again.

I for one think it's rubbish. We brought back battleships before the proliferation of relatively cheap precision guided munitions, a couple of B-2s can put 160 JDAMs on those targets in a single pass. Sure it's a cruise missile truck as well, but there are far more launch cells capable of firing cruise missiles in today's Navy than there were in the 80s.

Some believe a battleship like Iowa class would be invincible but they are just as big a target for submarines and large cruise missiles that can do terminal dives onto the (relatively) thinner deck armor. At the very least a mission kill waiting to happen.

 

[PurpleOwl]

who would they fight against? Anyone with the money to build a battleship would have nuclear weapons by now.

might as well bring back horses, and carrier pigeons

 

[Weatherman2020]

This topic comes up every once in awhile, where people are advocating bringing back battleships again. I find it an interesting debate, with additional ammunition (literally) being Zumwalt and it's shore bombardment role, the logic being if USN believes in the fire support role enough to design/build the Zuggys then there is a role for Iowa class again.

I for one think it's rubbish. We brought back battleships before the proliferation of relatively cheap precision guided munitions, a couple of B-2s can put 160 JDAMs on those targets in a single pass. Sure it's a cruise missile truck as well, but there are far more launch cells capable of firing cruise missiles in today's Navy than there were in the 80s.

Some believe a battleship like Iowa class would be invincible but they are just as big a target for submarines and large cruise missiles that can do terminal dives onto the (relatively) thinner deck armor. At the very least a mission kill waiting to happen.

First let me say I love battleships. I got to spend a little time on the Iowa.

The role of battleships shifted in WW2. By the middle of December the Japanese had sunk every capital ship in the Pacific that was in operation using air power. Except for a couple of battles, all naval engagements were conducted without the fleets seeing each other. The days of ships slugging it out on the ocean were over.

This shifted the role of battleships into being floating gun mounts that could pound land targets from the sea. We later learned that the North Koreans ordered that no troops would go within 20 miles of the coast because the Iowa was stationed there. This meant we owned the coast.

But now with air being able to carry substantial payloads to any targets in the world the need for a floating gun mount is not required. It is now the age of the aircraft carrier.

In addition, a battleship today would cost about a million dollars a day to operate. Expect for old crewmen, we really do not even know how to operate the Iowa. It is a lost art. If she were ordered to go to sea we would have to figure out how to make her work. And your point about submarines is good. The Iowa class battleships were built when torpedoes hit you from the side, so that is where her armor is. Todays torpedoes explode underneath the ship. Iowa class battleships only have 5" of steel on the bottom of their hulls. She would split apart with one hit.

 

[Manonthestreet]

If they make the rail gun work you have over the horizon capability......I would suspend Zums until that is accomplished

 

[namvet]

its a pipe dream. they were built for a war time economy. a dispersing Officer told me it cost about a million a day to keep this one afloat and running.

 

[namvet]

This topic comes up every once in awhile, where people are advocating bringing back battleships again. I find it an interesting debate, with additional ammunition (literally) being Zumwalt and it's shore bombardment role, the logic being if USN believes in the fire support role enough to design/build the Zuggys then there is a role for Iowa class again.

I for one think it's rubbish. We brought back battleships before the proliferation of relatively cheap precision guided munitions, a couple of B-2s can put 160 JDAMs on those targets in a single pass. Sure it's a cruise missile truck as well, but there are far more launch cells capable of firing cruise missiles in today's Navy than there were in the 80s.

Some believe a battleship like Iowa class would be invincible but they are just as big a target for submarines and large cruise missiles that can do terminal dives onto the (relatively) thinner deck armor. At the very least a mission kill waiting to happen.

they were a great way to show the flag. other than that...........

 

[HenryBHough]

Aircraft carriers should be obsolete in this day of fast-acting ICBMs. The only thing keeping them afloat is a regime that lacked the intestinal fortitude to even think of using the newer, more cost-effective, more efficient technology.

 

[Meathead]

Battleships are obsolete and even were in WWII. Though proud and truly magnificent ships, they were rendered useless by hideous but effective aircraft carriers.

 

[Meathead]

Aircraft carriers should be obsolete in this day of fast-acting ICBMs. The only thing keeping them afloat is a regime that lacked the intestinal fortitude to even think of using the newer, more cost-effective, more efficient technology.

No. aircraft carriers are the only way to project power to distant shores. ICBMs are strategic but cannot deal with tactical needs.

 

[namvet]

Battleships are obsolete and even were in WWII. Though proud and truly magnificent ships, they were rendered useless by hideous but effective aircraft carriers.

actually Carriers TF's had BB's along for protection as well as gunfire support for troops ashore

 

[Meathead]

Battleships are obsolete and even were in WWII. Though proud and truly magnificent ships, they were rendered useless by hideous but effective aircraft carriers.

actually Carriers TF's had BB's along for protection as well as gunfire support for troops ashore

There was little else for battleships to do. They were used almost exclusively for bombing and softening enemy shore batteries. In sea battles they were rendered virtually useless.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I am a huge New Jersey fan. But I know there are better and cheaper ways than upgrading her.

 

[Bleipriester]

Which weaponry makes sense solely depends on what the opponent fields

Funny experts say tanks are obsolete but once the enemy tank force knocks on their doors they know they were wrong.
The same applies for battleships. They can provide additional fire power on a solid basis, can stay long time in an operation. Without the battleships´s massive firepower, the US troops could not have successful landed in Italy during WWII.

 

[Meathead]

Which weaponry makes sense solely depends on what the opponent fields

Funny experts say tanks are obsolete but once the enemy tank force knocks on their doors they know they were wrong.
The same applies for battleships. They can provide additional fire power on a solid basis, can stay long time in an operation. Without the battleships´s massive firepower, the US troops could not have successful landed in Italy during WWII.

We get it. The reality today is that salvo bombing of targets anywhere near civilian populations is taboo. In any case, today's destroyers and cruisers are about the size of classical battleship and have nearly the same firepower anyway.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Aircraft carriers should be obsolete in this day of fast-acting ICBMs. The only thing keeping them afloat is a regime that lacked the intestinal fortitude to even think of using the newer, more cost-effective, more efficient technology.

ICBM's would have zero impact upon fleets. By the time they reach their programmed target the fleet has moved 50 miles. Ship to ship missiles are a maybe. But they have to deal with R2D2.


Best bet for getting an aircraft carrier is a sub launched nuclear torpedo. But that opens a huge can of worms that I don't see occurring.

 

[namvet]

Battleships are obsolete and even were in WWII. Though proud and truly magnificent ships, they were rendered useless by hideous but effective aircraft carriers.

actually Carriers TF's had BB's along for protection as well as gunfire support for troops ashore

There was little else for battleships to do. They were used almost exclusively for bombing and softening enemy shore batteries. In sea battles they were rendered virtually useless.

probably cause aircraft sent they're targets to the bottom

 

[Weatherman2020]

A little known fact is that during a tense period with the Soviet Union the USS Iowa stopped at Diego Garcia and picked up Mk 23 nuclear shells.

 

[Meathead]

Aircraft carriers are the center of naval task forces. All other ships serve as escorts and so are designed for defense against submarine, small surface and aerial attack and command and control of the fleet. The first line of defense against the two latter are of course the carriers' own planes.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Aircraft carriers are the center of naval task forces. All other ships serve as escorts and so are designed for defense against submarine, small surface and aerial attack and command and control of the fleet. The first line of defense against the two latter are of course the carriers' own planes.

Since WW2. That's why the Navy's new plan calls for 20 carriers. One carrier has more firepower than all but a few nations.

 

[Weatherman2020]

One historical oddity I have not heard a good answer for yet is the IJN building the Yamato in WW2. Japan had eliminated every capital ship in the Pacific in December 41 using air power, yet they spent a ton of limited resources building the worlds largest battleship. It could easily outgun our Iowa class battleships. But it was a ship they ended up having to keep in hiding for as long as possible because they knew our air power would sink it. Which it eventually did.