Battleships

[Meathead]

Aircraft carriers are the center of naval task forces. All other ships serve as escorts and so are designed for defense against submarine, small surface and aerial attack and command and control of the fleet. The first line of defense against the two latter are of course the carriers' own planes.

Since WW2. That's why the Navy's new plan calls for 20 carriers. One carrier has more firepower than all but a few nations.

Yep. The US can station a carrier task force off of most shores in the world and overpower their entire military.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Which weaponry makes sense solely depends on what the opponent fields

Funny experts say tanks are obsolete but once the enemy tank force knocks on their doors they know they were wrong.
The same applies for battleships. They can provide additional fire power on a solid basis, can stay long time in an operation. Without the battleships´s massive firepower, the US troops could not have successful landed in Italy during WWII.

We get it. The reality today is that salvo bombing of targets anywhere near civilian populations is taboo. In any case, today's destroyers and cruisers are about the size of classical battleship and have nearly the same firepower anyway.

No they don't, they are lucky if they have one 5 inch gun.

 

[Meathead]

One historical oddity I have not heard a good answer for yet is the IJN building the Yamato in WW2. Japan had eliminated every capital ship in the Pacific in December 41 using air power, yet they spent a ton of limited resources building the worlds largest battleship. It could easily outgun our Iowa class battleships. But it was a ship they ended up having to keep in hiding for as long as possible because they knew our air power would sink it. Which it eventually did.

View attachment 108844

Three sister ships were laid down, one of the others was the Mushashi which met a similar fate. The third was converted to an aircraft carrier which also wound up in Davey Jone's Locker.

They had 18.1" guns and a second battery of 6 inchers. Magnificent ships, but useless in the end.

 

[Weatherman2020]

One historical oddity I have not heard a good answer for yet is the IJN building the Yamato in WW2. Japan had eliminated every capital ship in the Pacific in December 41 using air power, yet they spent a ton of limited resources building the worlds largest battleship. It could easily outgun our Iowa class battleships. But it was a ship they ended up having to keep in hiding for as long as possible because they knew our air power would sink it. Which it eventually did.

View attachment 108844

Three sister ships were laid down, one of the others was the Mushashi which met a similar fate. The third was converted to an aircraft carrier which also wound up in Davey Jone's Locker.

They had 18.1" guns and a second battery of 6 inchers. Magnificent ships, but useless in the end.

But why? Steel was at a premium. They themselves had proven capital ships were obsolete with their air power. It is beyond me that someone said this was a good idea.

 

[Meathead]

Which weaponry makes sense solely depends on what the opponent fields

Funny experts say tanks are obsolete but once the enemy tank force knocks on their doors they know they were wrong.
The same applies for battleships. They can provide additional fire power on a solid basis, can stay long time in an operation. Without the battleships´s massive firepower, the US troops could not have successful landed in Italy during WWII.

We get it. The reality today is that salvo bombing of targets anywhere near civilian populations is taboo. In any case, today's destroyers and cruisers are about the size of classical battleship and have nearly the same firepower anyway.

No they don't, they are lucky if they have one 5 inch gun.

They are armed to the teeth with missiles of tremendous power and accuracy. They are unseen as they are below decks until released.

The closest thing to battleships today in appearance are the Russian cruisers and hybrid cruiser-carriers.

 

[Meathead]

One historical oddity I have not heard a good answer for yet is the IJN building the Yamato in WW2. Japan had eliminated every capital ship in the Pacific in December 41 using air power, yet they spent a ton of limited resources building the worlds largest battleship. It could easily outgun our Iowa class battleships. But it was a ship they ended up having to keep in hiding for as long as possible because they knew our air power would sink it. Which it eventually did.

View attachment 108844

Three sister ships were laid down, one of the others was the Mushashi which met a similar fate. The third was converted to an aircraft carrier which also wound up in Davey Jone's Locker.

They had 18.1" guns and a second battery of 6 inchers. Magnificent ships, but useless in the end.

But why? Steel was at a premium. They themselves had proven capital ships were obsolete with their air power. It is beyond me that someone said this was a good idea.

The Yamato-class ships had been laid down before Pearl Harbor and the Battle of Midway at which time the obsolescence of the battleship became apparent. These things were not built over night. As I said, the last hull was converted to a carrier.

Japanese aircraft carrier Shinano - Wikipedia

 

[Weatherman2020]

Which weaponry makes sense solely depends on what the opponent fields

Funny experts say tanks are obsolete but once the enemy tank force knocks on their doors they know they were wrong.
The same applies for battleships. They can provide additional fire power on a solid basis, can stay long time in an operation. Without the battleships´s massive firepower, the US troops could not have successful landed in Italy during WWII.

We get it. The reality today is that salvo bombing of targets anywhere near civilian populations is taboo. In any case, today's destroyers and cruisers are about the size of classical battleship and have nearly the same firepower anyway.

No they don't, they are lucky if they have one 5 inch gun.

They are armed to the teeth with missiles of tremendous power and accuracy. They are unseen as they are below decks until released.

The closest thing to battleships today in appearance are the Russian cruisers and hybrid cruiser-carriers.

The Arleigh Burke class destroyers can pack a punch, but nothing near what an Iowa class battleship could. They are fast and maneuverable but if you hit one, they have a glass jaw.

 

[DrainBamage]

It could easily outgun our Iowa class battleships. But it was a ship they ended up having to keep in hiding for as long as possible because they knew our air power would sink it. Which it eventually did.[/ATTACH]

This points out the flaws in the argument of invincibility. A bunch of WW2 small planes sunk this thing with unguided gravity bombs and torpedoes. Sure it took 'em awhile, but WW2 era bombs were blowing holes in the deck and causing critical damage before the torpedoes finished her off.

A modern guided penetrator munition would go right through a battleship's deck, superstructure, or turrets.

 

[DrainBamage]

No they don't, they are lucky if they have one 5 inch gun.

Every US cruiser and destroyer has at least one five inch gun, so there isn't a lot of luck to it.

Your point is taken though, in terms of straight up ground pounding lead on target nothing today matches a battleship hull for hull, except for the air wing of a CVN.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I was in the Navy from 1969 to 1989. Always wanted to be stationed aboard a battleship but never got lucky enough to receive orders to one.

 

[yiostheoy]

Aircraft carriers should be obsolete in this day of fast-acting ICBMs. The only thing keeping them afloat is a regime that lacked the intestinal fortitude to even think of using the newer, more cost-effective, more efficient technology.

You are quite silly.

 

[yiostheoy]

This topic comes up every once in awhile, where people are advocating bringing back battleships again. I find it an interesting debate, with additional ammunition (literally) being Zumwalt and it's shore bombardment role, the logic being if USN believes in the fire support role enough to design/build the Zuggys then there is a role for Iowa class again.

I for one think it's rubbish. We brought back battleships before the proliferation of relatively cheap precision guided munitions, a couple of B-2s can put 160 JDAMs on those targets in a single pass. Sure it's a cruise missile truck as well, but there are far more launch cells capable of firing cruise missiles in today's Navy than there were in the 80s.

Some believe a battleship like Iowa class would be invincible but they are just as big a target for submarines and large cruise missiles that can do terminal dives onto the (relatively) thinner deck armor. At the very least a mission kill waiting to happen.

Air power eclipsed and totally replaced battleships on the morning of Sunday, December 7th, 1941. Nothing has changed since then.