Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[Swagger]

Becoming desensitized to violence could make one not be affected by the daily dose of violence on the news, in life, etc. It doesn't mean that someone would go out and mass murder people.

If you accept the premise put forward in the OP then you must also accept that it was Sarah Palin's fault that Gabby Giffords, et al, were shot. After all, putting targets on politicians and telling people to lock and load or whatever idiocy she spouted is just as swaying to the mind as killing cartoon characters.

I agree, in that I don't think that even excessively violent video games are what triggers these killing sprees. Any ideas?

 

[Foxfyre]

And yet those studies that have been linked in this thread do not discount them as a factor. So do we just shrug off that component and dismiss it as relevent?

Kids are pretty astute at distinguishing fact from fiction. But they don't spend hours every day immersed in Roadrunner/Coyote cartoons like some do with video games.

 

[Ravi]

Becoming desensitized to violence could make one not be affected by the daily dose of violence on the news, in life, etc. It doesn't mean that someone would go out and mass murder people.

If you accept the premise put forward in the OP then you must also accept that it was Sarah Palin's fault that Gabby Giffords, et al, were shot. After all, putting targets on politicians and telling people to lock and load or whatever idiocy she spouted is just as swaying to the mind as killing cartoon characters.

I agree, in that I don't think that even excessively violent video games are what triggers these killing sprees. Any ideas?

The most I'd be willing to conclude is that video games don't create killing sprees, but that mass murderers may enjoy playing first person shooters.

If you are asking me what causes people to kill this way I really couldn't say beyond the probability that it is a multiple of factors.

 

[Politico]

Ban psychologists.

 

[JustTheFacts]

And yet those studies that have been linked in this thread do not discount them as a factor. So do we just shrug off that component and dismiss it as relevent?

Kids are pretty astute at distinguishing fact from fiction. But they don't spend hours every day immersed in Roadrunner/Coyote cartoons like some do with video games.

and again, that is parenting. My son would have sit for hours playing games to, if I didn't tell him to get his outside and play.

Easy enough to tell a child to turn off a video game.

 

[BOBO]

...games that are perceived to be violent by whoever... is bans in general do not work. Look @ the ban on pipe bombs, it was a great idea but did not work...

Virginia pipe bomb suspect arrested after police chase in Montana - CNN.com

Had the same problem when alcohol was banned after the 1st world war. Even the various state/city firearm bans of today don't seem to work, in fact violence picks up in firearm free zones...

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe a ban on computer devices would work??? With no computers how could one play the violent vid games? Sure, some folks would have the brains to design the components to build their own computers but few I'm sure. There would be a certain amount of smuggled computers coming in south of the boarder, but we could station extra boarder security agents on boarder to arresst those smuggling in illegal computers. Just a thought.

 

[Ravi]

And yet those studies that have been linked in this thread do not discount them as a factor. So do we just shrug off that component and dismiss it as relevent?

Kids are pretty astute at distinguishing fact from fiction. But they don't spend hours every day immersed in Roadrunner/Coyote cartoons like some do with video games.

and again, that is parenting. My son would have sit for hours playing games to, if I didn't tell him to get his outside and play.

Easy enough to tell a child to turn off a video game.

Is there a study that proves that violent video games cause murder in real life? Or do the studies merely overlook the probability that murders in real life enjoy violent video games?

Not that I'm championing such a mindless waste of time in a child's life, btw. I just fail to see a definitive conclusion being drawn between games and life.

 

[AmyNation]

And yet those studies that have been linked in this thread do not discount them as a factor. So do we just shrug off that component and dismiss it as relevent?

Kids are pretty astute at distinguishing fact from fiction. But they don't spend hours every day immersed in Roadrunner/Coyote cartoons like some do with video games.

and again, that is parenting. My son would have sit for hours playing games to, if I didn't tell him to get his outside and play.

Easy enough to tell a child to turn off a video game.

Is there a study that proves that violent video games cause murder in real life? Or do the studies merely overlook the probability that murders in real life enjoy violent video games?

Not that I'm championing such a mindless waste of time in a child's life, btw. I just fail to see a definitive conclusion being drawn between games and life.

There is also the odd fact that the more violent games have become, the lower the murder rate has been.

 

[Foxfyre]

Studies linked earlier in the thread cited a correlation between excessive exposure to violent video games and media and violent behavior. It did not suggest that everybody so exposed will exhibit violent behavior, but I think what they do tell us merits some attention to be paid.

 

[JustTheFacts]

And yet those studies that have been linked in this thread do not discount them as a factor. So do we just shrug off that component and dismiss it as relevent?

Kids are pretty astute at distinguishing fact from fiction. But they don't spend hours every day immersed in Roadrunner/Coyote cartoons like some do with video games.

and again, that is parenting. My son would have sit for hours playing games to, if I didn't tell him to get his outside and play.

Easy enough to tell a child to turn off a video game.

Is there a study that proves that violent video games cause murder in real life? Or do the studies merely overlook the probability that murders in real life enjoy violent video games?

Not that I'm championing such a mindless waste of time in a child's life, btw. I just fail to see a definitive conclusion being drawn between games and life.

you''re asking the wrong person, because I don't believe video games are the cause. I believe parenting is the cause.

I 100% believe that since the advent of parenting via a bottle we are seeing more and more kids who just don't care. Got a kid who won't pay attention in school? Hey instead of whipping that ass until they get the point, juts load em up on pills and call it good. Less work; then when you don't want to deal with those kids when they get home from school, just park them in front of a violent video game, hopped up on mind altering drugs and playing violent video games for hours on end? What could go wrong, am I right?

 

[Foxfyre]

And I don't believe a single person this thread has suggested that such games be banned.

What we are having is an adult discussion to determine what, if anything, can be identified that would prompt somebody to commit such mayhem as we saw in Aurora or at Sandy Hook or Columbine etc. This is a fairly new phenomena in America and is happening with sufficient frequency that I do believe it merits study.

 

[AmyNation]

Mass killings are not a new phenomena in America.

 

[Ravi]

Studies linked earlier in the thread cited a correlation between excessive exposure to violent video games and media and violent behavior. It did not suggest that everybody so exposed will exhibit violent behavior, but I think what they do tell us merits some attention to be paid.

Anything can be correlated, that doesn't mean one causes the other.

For instance. We have had numerous horrific disasters since 9/11. Katrina, the Asian tsunami, the earthquake in Haiti, the tsunami in Japan, Sandy....I'm sure I missed some. We get desensitized after awhile which basically translates into saying, "oh, how awful," and moving on with our lives. Which doesn't mean we are going to go out and cause a disaster. THAT is what desensitizing really means.

In the same manner, playing video games, watching movies or cartoons doesn't mean we are going to act them out. If that were true we would have all been dead by now.

But if you have some hard and fast factual basis for your claim, please post it. It hasn't appeared in any of the links in this thread.

 

[Ravi]

and again, that is parenting. My son would have sit for hours playing games to, if I didn't tell him to get his outside and play.

Easy enough to tell a child to turn off a video game.

Is there a study that proves that violent video games cause murder in real life? Or do the studies merely overlook the probability that murders in real life enjoy violent video games?

Not that I'm championing such a mindless waste of time in a child's life, btw. I just fail to see a definitive conclusion being drawn between games and life.

There is also the odd fact that the more violent games have become, the lower the murder rate has been.

True enough. An interesting statistic.

 

[Ravi]

and again, that is parenting. My son would have sit for hours playing games to, if I didn't tell him to get his outside and play.

Easy enough to tell a child to turn off a video game.

Is there a study that proves that violent video games cause murder in real life? Or do the studies merely overlook the probability that murders in real life enjoy violent video games?

Not that I'm championing such a mindless waste of time in a child's life, btw. I just fail to see a definitive conclusion being drawn between games and life.

you''re asking the wrong person, because I don't believe video games are the cause. I believe parenting is the cause.

I 100% believe that since the advent of parenting via a bottle we are seeing more and more kids who just don't care. Got a kid who won't pay attention in school? Hey instead of whipping that ass until they get the point, juts load em up on pills and call it good. Less work; then when you don't want to deal with those kids when they get home from school, just park them in front of a violent video game, hopped up on mind altering drugs and playing violent video games for hours on end? What could go wrong, am I right?

I honestly don't believe that bad parenting creates mass murderers. There are just too many cases of bad parenting not doing just that.

 

[Foxfyre]

Fine. If ya'll think that correlation doesn't matter, that there is no problem, that we shouldn't be discussing this at all, that's your opinion. And you'll probably want to find something else to do as those of us who do see a problem may continue to discuss this.

As for mass murders in the USA, here is the history I found:

1900s : 0

1910s: 2

1920s: 2

1930s: 9

1940s: 8

1950s: 1

1960s: 6

1970s: 13

1980s: 32

1990s: 42

2000s: 28

2010s (three years): 14

The history of mass shootings in the U.S. | HeraldNet.com - Nation/World

 

[Ravi]

Fine. If ya'll think that correlation doesn't matter, that there is no problem, that we shouldn't be discussing this at all, that's your opinion. And you'll probably want to find something else to do as those of us who do see a problem may continue to discuss this.

As for mass murders in the USA, here is the history I found:

1900s : 0

1910s: 2

1920s: 2

1930s: 9

1940s: 8

1950s: 1

1960s: 6

1970s: 13

1980s: 32

1990s: 42

2000s: 28

2010s (three years): 14

The history of mass shootings in the U.S. | HeraldNet.com - Nation/World

I have to laugh at you. Someone else has used the same statistics to "prove" that easy access to weapons makes it easier to murder people in great numbers. And they actually have a better point than you do.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is not a discussion on gun control. I thought I made that clear? Perhaps you might want to revisit the OP? Please?

 

[AmyNation]

Just to focus on school shootings

"1700s
The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only two children survived.

1800s
• November 2, 1853 Louisville, Kentucky A student, Matthew Ward, bought a self-cocking pistol in the morning, went to school and killed Schoolmaster Mr. Butler for excessively punishing his brother the day before. Even though he shot the Schoolmaster point blank in front of his classmates, he was acquitted.

An April 30, 1866 editorial in the New York Times argued against students carrying pistols, citing "...pistols being dropped on the floor at balls or being exploded in very inconvenient ways. A boy of 12 has his pantaloons made with a pistol pocket; and this at a boarding-school filled with boys, who, we suppose, do or wish to do the same thing. We would advise parents to look into it, and learn whether shooting is to be a part of the scholastic course which may be practiced on their boys; or else we advise them to see that their own boys are properly armed with the most approved and deadly-pistol, and that there may be an equal chance at least of their shooting as of being shot."

• June 8, 1867 New York City At Public School No. 18, a 13 year old lad brought a pistol loaded and capped, without the knowledge of his parents or school-teachers, and shot and injured a fellow classmate.

• December 22, 1868 Chattanooga, Tennessee A boy who refused to be whipped and left school, returned with his brother and a friend, the next day to seek revenge on his teacher. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle rang out, leaving three dead. Only the brother survived.

• March 9, 1873 Salisbury, Maryland After school as Miss Shockley was walking with four small children, she was approached by a Mr. Hall and shot. The Schoolmaster ran out, but she was dead instantly. Hall threw himself under a train that night.

• May 24, 1879 Lancaster, New York As the carriage loaded with female students was pulling out of the school's stables, Frank Shugart a telegraph operator shot and severely injured Mr. Carr, Superintendent of the stables.

• March 6, 1884 Boston, Massachusetts As news of Jesse James reached the east coast, young kids started to act in the same manner. An article from the New York Times reads, "Another "Jesse James" Gang - "Word was brought to the Fifth Police Station to-night that a number of boys were using the Concord-street School-house for some unknown purpose, and a posse of officers was sent to investigate. The gang scattered at the approach of the police, and in their flight on drew a revolver and fired at Officer Rowan, without effect, however. William Nangle, age 14, and Sidney Duncan, age 12, were captured, but the other five or six escaped, among them the one who who did the shooting. The boys refused to disclose the object of their meeting, but it is thought that another "Jesse James" organization has been broken up."

• March 15, 1884 Gainsville, Georgia In the middle of the day, a group of very drunk Jackson County farmers left the Jug Tavern drinking and shooting their revolvers as they headed down the street driving people into their homes. As they approached the female academy, the girls fled the schoolyard into the school where the gang followed swearing and shooting, firing several rounds into the front door. No one was hurt.

• July 4, 1886 Charleston, South Carolina During Sunday school, Emma Connelly shot and killed John Steedley for "circulating slanderous reports" about her, even though her brother publicly whipped him a few days earlier.

• April 12, 1887 Watertown, New York Edwin Bush, a student a the Potsdam Normal School committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

• June 12, 1887 Cleveland, Tennessee Will Guess went to the school and fatally shot Miss Irene Fann, his little sister's teacher, for whipping her the day before.

• June 13, 1889 New Brunswick, New Jersey Charles Crawford upset over an argument with a school Trustee, went up to the window and fired a pistol into a crowded school room. The bullet lodged in the wall just above the teacher's head.

The first known mass shooting in the U.S. where students were shot, was on April 9, 1891, when 70 year old, James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary's Parochial School, Newburgh, New York, causing minor injuries to several of the students. The majority of attacks during this time period by students on other students or teacher, usually involved stabbing with knives, or hitting with stones."

^^ and thats just the ones before 1900

History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics

 

[Foxfyre]

And whatever we decide is increasing the violence, I do think the increasing numbers warrant some consideration of the subject. We have had a number of thoughtful posts looking at media, video games, parenting issues, and cultural influences. I'm pretty sure that the more thoughtful members are not interested in including access to guns in the equation as Americans have always had access to guns and those earlier decades had a whole lot less gun control than what we have now. Have any of us put our finger on the actual problem? Maybe. Maybe not.

I am not interested in random acts of violence in which somebody murders somebody they have an issue with. I am interested in focusing on what would provoke or prompt someone to plan and carry out the mass murders that we have mentioned here.

But to dismiss video games as a factor is also most likely not a good idea any more than would be dismissing other theories presented here. Again posting the link 007 posted earlier:

Video Games Desensitize to Real Violence | Psych Central News