Attrition in Higher Education

[DGS49]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

 

[OldLady]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

Harvard Has One of the Best Freshman RetentionRates in the Country. With 97.0% of students staying on for a second year, Harvard University is one of the best in the country when it comes to freshman retention. Nationwide, the average first year to second year retention rate is 72.0%.

This is what Google says. Probably the retention rate at the Ivys is high because they only accept the best to begin with.

 

[Dekster]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

You could have gone an hour south to Mo'town and got yourself a fine degree in farming or mining and picked up a trade like moonshining in your spare time

 

[Unkotare]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

Harvard Has One of the Best Freshman RetentionRates in the Country. With 97.0% of students staying on for a second year, Harvard University is one of the best in the country when it comes to freshman retention. Nationwide, the average first year to second year retention rate is 72.0%.

This is what Google says. Probably the retention rate at the Ivys is high because they only accept the best to begin with.

Grade inflation is worse in the ivy's than anywhere else, for obvious reasons.

 

[OldLady]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

Harvard Has One of the Best Freshman RetentionRates in the Country. With 97.0% of students staying on for a second year, Harvard University is one of the best in the country when it comes to freshman retention. Nationwide, the average first year to second year retention rate is 72.0%.

This is what Google says. Probably the retention rate at the Ivys is high because they only accept the best to begin with.

Grade inflation is worse in the ivy's than anywhere else, for obvious reasons.

What is "grade inflation?" I suppose it means I'm wrong?

 

[rightwinger]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

Like you, I bombed out my first semester using my High School study habits, but I eventually recovered

I think retention depends on your major. There are still a lot of drop outs in medicine and engineering

 

[Unkotare]

I was privileged to go to the best academic high school in Pittsburgh, Central Catholic. In terms of average SAT scores, National Merit Scholarship Recipients, 800 board scores, and so on, we were at the top of the pecking order. Parenthetically, the best public school was one called Alderdice, and they were right up there as well, with a predominantly Jewish student body and tons of academic awards every year.

I was an average student, graduated in 1967 in the upper-middle of the class, had 1200 SAT's and was easily accepted at the only school that was economically possible for me, the University of Pittsburgh. I signed up for a Chemistry major and attacked my studies with the same enthusiasm that I did in High School...and promptly failed out. The 'F' in German and 'D' in Math pretty much did me in. I was OK in Chemistry, but due to a scheduling snafu I missed an exam (there was no "make-up") and I ended up with a D.

You see, in High School, all I needed to do was to pay attention in class, do the compulsory written homework assignments, and occasionally glance at a textbook on the night before an exam. Good enough for A's and B's. Didn't work in college, where one had to actually STUDY in order to stay above water.

Most of my high school friends failed out of college. Some did so on multiple occasions. And keep in mind, this was at the height of Vietnam, and most kids who failed out of college were immediately drafted into the military service.

At the time, colleges took PRIDE in their attrition. They were PROUD to tell incoming Freshmen that half of them wouldn't graduate, and in fact they didn't have the facilities to educate the entire Freshman class for four years; they ASSUMED a high attrition rate. Graduating, particularly in four years with your intended major was a significant accomplishment.*

But what is it like now? I never hear about anyone failing out of college. Quitting college due to various factors, yes, but failing out? Does it still happen? In 2002, my son was thinking about transferring to an Ivy League college for his Junior and Senior years, but was told that they really didn't have room for many transfers (maybe a dozen in total), because there was no attrition.

And if there is no attrition, is a college degree a significant accomplishment anymore?

I'd like an answer from someone who has gone to college in the past few years. I'd really like to know.

____________________
* for the record, I went back to college after three years in the Army, graduated, and then got a law degree. At 32 years old.

Harvard Has One of the Best Freshman Retention Rates in the Country. With 97.0% of students staying on for a second year, Harvard University is one of the best in the country when it comes to freshman retention. Nationwide, the average first year to second year retention rate is 72.0%.

This is what Google says. Probably the retention rate at the Ivys is high because they only accept the best to begin with.

Grade inflation is worse in the ivy's than anywhere else, for obvious reasons.

What is "grade inflation?" I suppose it means I'm wrong?

Grade inflation is just what it sounds like. Inflating, or pumping up - making larger, grades. 'B' quality work becomes an 'A,' for example.

 

[DGS49]

When I first went to Duquesne Law School, their grading system was the system that has been advertised as universal since the beginning of grades: C was average, B was above average, and A was superior. No more than 20% of any class could get higher than a C, and D's and F's were definitely on the table.

After my second year, they were forced to give in to the pressure of grads who complained that when competing for jobs and advanced law academic slots, they were getting killed because of their grades. They retroactively raised every grade on every transcript one full letter grade, except that the rare A's became A+'s.

It truly made me a "better" student, by decree.