Attack in Nice, France

[Mindful]

I think each incident needs to be viewed individually, not lumped together as "mental illness" or "religion" - many reasons, and how you respond in the aftermath, to prevent more, will vary.

oh----that certainly NAILS it ------just prevent "mental illness" and "religion"-----of course---first DEFINE mental illness and
religion

In the case of Islam, it is also a cultural and political system.

As is Judaism.

What's that got to do with it?

Just pointing out other cultural and political religious systems, some people seem to think there is only one

Which one would that be?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

We agree that too many people suffering from mental health issues are in prison, these are vulnerable people and of course they shouldn't be in prison.

That they've committed whatever crime, depending on the nature of their mental illness, they can't be considered responsible for their actions.

They should be in secure institutions, where they can get the correct treatment for their illness.

Mr. Lucy deals with some people exactly like this, but I better not elaborate.

Society in general is still very ignorant regarding mental health issues, which is a scandal, we're in 2016 not 1816.

I think each incident needs to be viewed individually, not lumped together as "mental illness" or "religion" - many reasons, and how you respond in the aftermath, to prevent more, will vary.

Well yes we can agree on this.

The issue is, if you have 200,000 creatures such as ISIS, or Al-Nusra, or Islamic Jihad, or even further back with the Tamil Tigers who created the first individual suicide bombers, one can't say such a huge grouping of people for a "religious" cause are ALL suffering from mental illness.

And no one has said that, but each involves different issues as well. ISIS actively recruits and has sophisticated propoganda. The Tamil Tigers were an ethnic conflict who's roots lay in Sri Lanka's colonial past.

But what The Tamil Tigers have in common with ISIS, Al-Nusra, Islamic Jihad is the using of the suicide bomber, which as I said effectively The Tamil Tigers created originally.

Are suicide bombers mentally ill or are they committed fanatics who consider it the highest honour to, in their opinion, Martyr themselves for the ultimate cause?

I don't know....the Japanese had the Kamakazi pilots. What you have is a person willing to kill himself for a "cause"...not necessarily mentally ill. But I have heard that some of these groups have exploited mentally retarded people to do it.

One important point...you ever notice the LEADERS of these groups (and their family members) never seem to be suicide bombers?

The suicide attack roughly is thought to date back to the 1st Century AD, but these were more suicide squads, rather than individual suicide bombers.

The first recorded individual suicide bomber, had no religious or political cause, it was a New Zealand farmer Joseph Sewell, he had a long running dispute with another farmer which went to court. Unknown at the time Sewell had strapped sticks of gelignite to himself, he blew himself up outside the courtroom, this was in 1905.

The Chinese had suicide squads, first used in 1911 during the Xinhai Revolution and then again during the Warlord Era from 1916-1928. These were often huge suicide squads, with suicide belts full of hand-grenades.

I think the largest single Chinese suicide squad were whats known as the 72 Martyrs of Huanghuagang, they all blew themselves up in 1911 in the uprising that began the Second Guangzhou Uprising.

The Tokubetsu Kōgekitai, which means "Special Attack Unit", more commonly known as the Kamikaze, which means "The Spirit Wind" or "The Divine Wind" (Kami means God, Divine, Spirit and Kaze means Wind) are completely unique, the aircraft were purposely built planes which essentially were explosive missiles, pilot-guided.

Death is a long-held tradition within Japanese military culture, rather than capture or defeat which has always carried a social shame on the military personnels entire family. This goes right back to the Samurai, it was the ultimate tradition of the Samurai, loyalty and honour until death, or what's known as the Bushido Code.

The Kamikaze as such cannot be put into the same category as Suicide Bombers, it's all very complicated, but I've attempted to explain it as easily as possible.

I should add that there were roughly 3,800 Kamikaze pilots, and ALL were volunteers, none were talked into it or exploited into it, they volunteered, they knew it was a "Special Attack Mission", they knew they would die, most were between the ages of 22 years-old and 28 years-old. They were pretty extraordinary young men.

They also had the Kaiten, which means "Return To Heaven", these were manned torpedoes, human torpedoes fired from submarines, containing one man, they fired about 100 of these human torpedoes between their introduction in 1944 and until 1945. They were very effective, sinking many Destroyer Ships and Destroyer Escorts.

Here's an obviously unused one, the Kaiten Type 1:

This is a diagram of the set-up inside the above, with the volunteer suicide attacker sitting in a central position:

The above were all Suicide Squads, with the exception of the Kaiten, the Kamikaze went out as a Suicide Squad, usually in a group of five planes with five pilots.

The Tamil Tigers differ because they perfected the individual suicide bomber, the lone suicide bomber with their Black Tigers Unit.

The very first individual suicide bomber, was a car bomber in the Lebanese Civil War, I'll have to look up the date of that, it was very early 1980s, it was the Iraqi Embassy in Beirut that was attacked.

Edited to add comment.

 

[Coyote]

I think each incident needs to be viewed individually, not lumped together as "mental illness" or "religion" - many reasons, and how you respond in the aftermath, to prevent more, will vary.

Well yes we can agree on this.

The issue is, if you have 200,000 creatures such as ISIS, or Al-Nusra, or Islamic Jihad, or even further back with the Tamil Tigers who created the first individual suicide bombers, one can't say such a huge grouping of people for a "religious" cause are ALL suffering from mental illness.

And no one has said that, but each involves different issues as well. ISIS actively recruits and has sophisticated propoganda. The Tamil Tigers were an ethnic conflict who's roots lay in Sri Lanka's colonial past.

But what The Tamil Tigers have in common with ISIS, Al-Nusra, Islamic Jihad is the using of the suicide bomber, which as I said effectively The Tamil Tigers created originally.

Are suicide bombers mentally ill or are they committed fanatics who consider it the highest honour to, in their opinion, Martyr themselves for the ultimate cause?

I don't know....the Japanese had the Kamakazi pilots. What you have is a person willing to kill himself for a "cause"...not necessarily mentally ill. But I have heard that some of these groups have exploited mentally retarded people to do it.

One important point...you ever notice the LEADERS of these groups (and their family members) never seem to be suicide bombers?

The suicide attack roughly is thought to date back to the 1st Century AD, but these were more suicide squads, rather than individual suicide bombers.

The first recorded individual suicide bomber, had no religious or political cause, it was a New Zealand farmer Joseph Sewell, he had a long running dispute with another farmer which went to court. Unknown at the time Sewell had strapped sticks of gelignite to himself, he blew himself up outside the courtroom, this was in 1905.

The Chinese had suicide squads, first used in 1911 during the Xinhai Revolution and then again during the Warlord Era from 1916-1928. These were often huge suicide squads, with suicide belts full of hand-grenades.

I think the largest single Chinese suicide squad were whats known as the 72 Martyrs of Huanghuagang, they all blew themselves up in 1911 in the uprising that began the Second Guangzhou Uprising.

The Tokubetsu Kōgekitai, which means "Special Attack Unit", more commonly known as the Kamikaze, which means "The Spirit Wind" or "The Divine Wind" (Kami means God, Divine, Spirit and Kaze means Wind) are completely unique, the aircraft were purposely built planes which essentially were explosive missiles, pilot-guided.

Death is a long-held tradition within Japanese military culture, rather than capture or defeat which has always carried a social shame on the military personnels entire family. This goes right back to the Samurai, it was the ultimate tradition of the Samurai, loyalty and honour until death, or what's known as the Bushido Code.

The Kamikaze as such cannot be put into the same category as Suicide Bombers, it's all very complicated, but I've attempted to explain it as easily as possible.

I should add that there were roughly 3,800 Kamikaze pilots, and ALL were volunteers, none were talked into it or exploited into it, they volunteered, they knew it was a "Special Attack Mission", they knew they would die, most were between the ages of 22 years-old and 28 years-old. They were pretty extraordinary young men.

They also had the Kaiten, which means "Return To Heaven", these were manned torpedoes, human torpedoes fired from submarines, containing one man, they fired about 100 of these human torpedoes between their introduction in 1944 and until 1945. They were very effective, sinking many Destroyer Ships and Destroyer Escorts.

Here's an obviously unused one, the Kaiten Type 1:

This is a diagram of the set-up inside the above, with the volunteer suicide attacker sitting in a central position:

The above were all Suicide Squads, with the exception of the Kaiten, the Kamikaze went out as a Suicide Squad, usually in a group of five planes with five pilots.

The Tamil Tigers differ because they perfected the individual suicide bomber, the lone suicide bomber with their Black Tigers Unit.

The very first individual suicide bomber, was a car bomber in the Lebanese Civil War, I'll have to look up the date of that, it was very early 1980s, it was the Iraqi Embassy in Beirut that was attacked.

Edited to add comment.

Fascinating - I had no idea there was such a history to it

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Well yes we can agree on this.

The issue is, if you have 200,000 creatures such as ISIS, or Al-Nusra, or Islamic Jihad, or even further back with the Tamil Tigers who created the first individual suicide bombers, one can't say such a huge grouping of people for a "religious" cause are ALL suffering from mental illness.

And no one has said that, but each involves different issues as well. ISIS actively recruits and has sophisticated propoganda. The Tamil Tigers were an ethnic conflict who's roots lay in Sri Lanka's colonial past.

But what The Tamil Tigers have in common with ISIS, Al-Nusra, Islamic Jihad is the using of the suicide bomber, which as I said effectively The Tamil Tigers created originally.

Are suicide bombers mentally ill or are they committed fanatics who consider it the highest honour to, in their opinion, Martyr themselves for the ultimate cause?

I don't know....the Japanese had the Kamakazi pilots. What you have is a person willing to kill himself for a "cause"...not necessarily mentally ill. But I have heard that some of these groups have exploited mentally retarded people to do it.

One important point...you ever notice the LEADERS of these groups (and their family members) never seem to be suicide bombers?

The suicide attack roughly is thought to date back to the 1st Century AD, but these were more suicide squads, rather than individual suicide bombers.

The first recorded individual suicide bomber, had no religious or political cause, it was a New Zealand farmer Joseph Sewell, he had a long running dispute with another farmer which went to court. Unknown at the time Sewell had strapped sticks of gelignite to himself, he blew himself up outside the courtroom, this was in 1905.

The Chinese had suicide squads, first used in 1911 during the Xinhai Revolution and then again during the Warlord Era from 1916-1928. These were often huge suicide squads, with suicide belts full of hand-grenades.

I think the largest single Chinese suicide squad were whats known as the 72 Martyrs of Huanghuagang, they all blew themselves up in 1911 in the uprising that began the Second Guangzhou Uprising.

The Tokubetsu Kōgekitai, which means "Special Attack Unit", more commonly known as the Kamikaze, which means "The Spirit Wind" or "The Divine Wind" (Kami means God, Divine, Spirit and Kaze means Wind) are completely unique, the aircraft were purposely built planes which essentially were explosive missiles, pilot-guided.

Death is a long-held tradition within Japanese military culture, rather than capture or defeat which has always carried a social shame on the military personnels entire family. This goes right back to the Samurai, it was the ultimate tradition of the Samurai, loyalty and honour until death, or what's known as the Bushido Code.

The Kamikaze as such cannot be put into the same category as Suicide Bombers, it's all very complicated, but I've attempted to explain it as easily as possible.

I should add that there were roughly 3,800 Kamikaze pilots, and ALL were volunteers, none were talked into it or exploited into it, they volunteered, they knew it was a "Special Attack Mission", they knew they would die, most were between the ages of 22 years-old and 28 years-old. They were pretty extraordinary young men.

They also had the Kaiten, which means "Return To Heaven", these were manned torpedoes, human torpedoes fired from submarines, containing one man, they fired about 100 of these human torpedoes between their introduction in 1944 and until 1945. They were very effective, sinking many Destroyer Ships and Destroyer Escorts.

Here's an obviously unused one, the Kaiten Type 1:

This is a diagram of the set-up inside the above, with the volunteer suicide attacker sitting in a central position:

The above were all Suicide Squads, with the exception of the Kaiten, the Kamikaze went out as a Suicide Squad, usually in a group of five planes with five pilots.

The Tamil Tigers differ because they perfected the individual suicide bomber, the lone suicide bomber with their Black Tigers Unit.

The very first individual suicide bomber, was a car bomber in the Lebanese Civil War, I'll have to look up the date of that, it was very early 1980s, it was the Iraqi Embassy in Beirut that was attacked.

Edited to add comment.

Fascinating - I had no idea there was such a history to it

Yes it is all very fascinating, macabre, yet fascinating.

 

[Phoenall]

ISIS is exceptionally good at drawing in people who are already vulnerable or mentally ill. Denying that means you're overlooking a critical component of how ISIS recruits and why people can get drawn into it. You're also ignoring something that should be looked into.

The Line Between Terrorism and Mental Illness - The New Yorker

“Islamic-extremist online recruiters are very good at pulling in people who are mentally vulnerable,” Heather Hurlburt, of the Washington-based think tank New America, said. She suggests that an effective response to the problem will draw at least as much on the insights of mental health as on the intrusions of the security state. The constant balance that needs to be struck, she said, is between monitoring dangers without alienating allies in the community, as happened with New York City Police Department’s polarizing surveillance of mosques. As Hurlburt noted, “Some of the efforts, such as surveillance of college students’ social-media accounts and police informers in mosques, have been controversial and counterproductive. Insights from mental health, especially post-Columbine, tend to focus on more community-centered efforts, which may give family and clergy tools and non-stigmatizing places to turn for help. Tragically, the father of the Canadian who killed a Canadian soldier with his car on Monday had previously reported him to the authorities.”


Recruiting troubled individuals who can be pushed toward violence ties in well with ISIS’s larger strategy. As Hurlburt observed, ISIS “seems to calculate—correctly, in my view—that small-scale lone-wolf attacks on symbolic targets will get it outsized attention. So you see these propaganda broadcasts encouraging individuals who may be mentally unstable, who may have had little or no actual training, to use weapons like knives and cars that will surely lead to the attackers’ capture or death. The propagandists seem to understand the link between certain forms of mental illness and susceptibility to mass violence, even if we don’t.”


Couture-Rouleau was identified as a “high-risk traveller” by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and was prevented from leaving the country for fear that he would join up with foreign fighters abroad. Zehaf-Bibeau had applied for a passport and talked about travelling to Saudi Arabia; R.C.M.P. officials suggested that difficulty in renewing his passport may have played a role in the shooting.* Zehaf-Bibeau is, according to Hegghammer, “one of several examples of what I’ve called the ‘obstruction effect’—the tendency for some candidate foreign fighters to attack at home when they are prevented from leaving.” He cited the Holsworthy Barracks plot, in a suburb of Sydney, as one such example.


A decade ago, in the early days of the Iraq War, we were told that, if we don’t fight them overseas, we’ll have to fight them at home; absent some deeper form of intervention, the implication is now that, if we don’t let them fight there, we will have to fight them here. Perhaps in recognition of the danger of playing into grand martial fantasies, the Canadian military advised its soldiers on Wednesday not to wear uniforms unless they’re on active duty.


It’s natural to see terrorism and counter-terrorism as a drama of violence and retribution played out on the international stage. Both Zehaf-Bibeau and Couture-Rouleau certainly seem to have seen themselves as part of a similarly apocalyptic saga—Zehaf-Bibeau, in particular, was said by people at the shelter where he was staying in Ottawa to have spoken in his last days about the end of the world. But it’s worth remembering that Zehaf-Bibeau talked not just about an external battle but an internal struggle with demons, spiritual beings he felt had a real existence. That was a battle he was fighting in his own mind, which may have been the ultimate source of the violence that he inflicted on the world.​

"ISIS is exceptionally good at drawing in people who are already vulnerable or mentally ill. Denying that means you're overlooking a critical component of how ISIS recruits and why people can get drawn into it. You're also ignoring something that should be looked into."

One could say, like in all societies, that a proportion would have mental health issues, but that the majority of them don't. Islam is a religion/political philosophy who's foundations in the Qu'ran are built on violent rhetoric towards non-Muslims, to the point where the call is to put non-Muslims "to the sword", in the Name of Allah, to behead them, them being us.

ISIS is indoctrinating young children under the age of 10 years-old, boys and girls. This includes the full Jihadi deal and also teaching them to decapitate teddy bears and dolls, getting them ready for when they reach their teenage years, so they can then decapitate human beings.

There are a myriad of videos which show this, the below is just one of them, it's a young girl, already in full Niqāb and spewing all the usual anti-Western Civilisation hate speech whilst waving a knife about, it culminates with this young girl decapitating a doll. We're also "entertained" with her singing an ISIS song.

WHAT other so-called religion teaches young children this sort of thing? Does Christianity? Does Judaism? Does Buddhism?

Watch the below video and tell me your thoughts about WTF is going on with these people? Please don't automatically say it's because of mental health issues, it's simply bizarre to suggest that ALL of this crowd have mental health issues.

This is the next generation, we already have immense problems with the current generation, unless concrete measures are taken, we're going to be facing this....virus, this cancer upon Western Civilisation for the next what 50 years, 60 years. I don't want my children having to fight this evil and then their children having to have to fight this evil, I don't want them saying to me:

"Why didn't your generation fight this evil? Why have you left it to us?"

Anyhow, here's the video, it was uploaded on August 4th.

ISIS is best understood as a violent cult, and everything you say about them I absolutely agree with. We have not seen such evil since the Nazi's and ISIS is no more representative of mainstream Islam than the Nazi's were of mainstream Christianity. What they are doing to these kids...is simply beyond words. What they've done to entire populations is beyond words.

This is not just a cancer on western civilization - it's a cancer on ALL civilized people.

That said, I want to clarify something. I have never said it's all (or even mostly) caused by mental illness. What I've read is that ISIS has a tendancy to attract generic thugs (including those who aren't particularly religious but are attracted to violence and power) and vulnerable people - people who are alienated, or even suffering from mental illness. There is a close connection between extreme religiosity and mental illness.

My argument is when mental illness IS present - it shouldn't be denied as a factor (why is it?). In each of my arguments, I've listed specific cases where evidence and authorities pointed to mental illness: the somali immigrant woman who attacked a woman with her flag pole for example. Another one was a man who decapitated an elderly woman in London, and who had a mental illness history and authorties stated he had mental health issues. More recently - I don't remember which incident it was, the father had been trying to get his son hospitalized. In those incidences, blaming it on "religion" serves what purpose? Further demonizing of that religion? Ignoring the failures in mental health care in our respective countries? Acknowledging the influence of mental illness - when it's a factor - mean we can start to look for some solutions - where is the system failing these people? Jared Loughner shot and killed 6 people, and injured more, in Tucson Arizona. Family and people at college had tried to get him to submit to mental health evaluation and he refused. James Holmes, shot and killed 12 people and injured 70 others in the 2012 Colorado Theatre Shooting. He had a history of mental health problems, seeing psychiatrists, and was obsessed with violence. Should we insist that mental illness has nothing to do with it, or recognize and see if there are things that can be done differently to stop these people before something like this happens or before vulnerable people get sucked into violent cults.

That's why I bring up mental illness. I've never said it's all caused by mental illness, but where it IS a factor, we should be alerted - and ISIS DOES suck in these people. We need to stop it.

The thing you overlook is that daesh is islam as it was originally intended and is practised by the majority of muslims. If it was any other then the muslims would have risen up and eliminated the likes of daesh 100 years ago. They had the Jewish and Christian model to go on, and could have very easily instructed the followers to ignore the aspects of islam that involve violence and terrorism. It is islam as a whole that sucks in the mentally deranged as that is why it was invented in the first place, this is why certain verses were recited as they appealed to certain extreme groups that swelled the ranks of the muslims. The best example of this is the Satanic Verses that were aimed at a certain arab group that worshipped goddesses, once the group was assimilated the muslims tried to claim that it was satan overpowering God and telling mo'mad to recite his words.It takes very little intelligence to see through the muslims lies and even less to prove they are lies.

 

[Phoenall]

David Vance is a regular contributer to The Big Question on BBC TV, Sunday mornings.

What was hateful about his article? I don't like discrediting tactics.

I like to know what's behind a writer or source.

As to what is "hateful" - mostly, it's what I already wrote - the sudden claim that when it comes a violent act by someone who happens to be Muslim, mental illness is now automatically ruled out by you folks. It makes no sense since it is clearly behind certain violent acts by non-Muslims. A Muslim can be psychotic, delusional, hearing voices, claiming God is telling him to do this, authorities can state that there are "significant mental health issues" (as in a recent case) and you will deny mental illness is a factor in that case solely on the basis of that person's religion. I like things to make sense, that does not. It's not like folks are attributing every violent act to mental illness.

wrong again----"mental illness as a factor" is absolutely not
even close to mental illness as a cause. Mental illness
is VERY VERY prevalent in the human population----most
crime is not CAUSED by mental illness. Al Capone had
neurosyphilis----want to blame his life of crime on that illness?

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

 

[irosie91]

the ever ready idiot argument-----"I FOUND SOME LITTLE MINOR EXCEPTIONS"----thus it is RACISM to say that
American blacks like macaroni and cheese and RACISM to
suggest that jews like pastrami on rye. The ability of the human brain to GENERALIZE AND CATEGORIZE is the basis of HUMAN INTELLIGENCE <<<<< correct statement-----but---
guess what----dogs and apes do it too.---in a somewhat lesser
elaborate manner---actually very much lesser. Yeah----seek and seek and you will find---
somewhere---in the UNIVERSE a non muslimah suicide slut~~~
THUS!!!!! the fact that muslims adulate the sluts in the same
manner that catholics adulate SAINTS-----is of no issue at all.
Lets pretend that islam has nothing to do with terrorism.
Does islam have anything to do with anything?

 

[Mindful]

Have you heard about this attack?

There was a second prophet; after Muhammed. And that counts as a heresy I guess.

Shopkeeper Killer Given Life For 'Execution'

 

[Coyote]

The thing you overlook is that daesh is islam as it was originally intended and is practised by the majority of muslims. If it was any other then the muslims would have risen up and eliminated the likes of daesh 100 years ago. They had the Jewish and Christian model to go on, and could have very easily instructed the followers to ignore the aspects of islam that involve violence and terrorism. It is islam as a whole that sucks in the mentally deranged as that is why it was invented in the first place, this is why certain verses were recited as they appealed to certain extreme groups that swelled the ranks of the muslims. The best example of this is the Satanic Verses that were aimed at a certain arab group that worshipped goddesses, once the group was assimilated the muslims tried to claim that it was satan overpowering God and telling mo'mad to recite his words.It takes very little intelligence to see through the muslims lies and even less to prove they are lies.

Actually, it isn't, and if you read a good biography of Mohammed, and had an understanding of the era you would realize that. There is no better Christian or Jewish model. Look at the history of those religions and the violence expressed in the OT. Ancient history was pretty rough.

 

[Coyote]

I like to know what's behind a writer or source.

As to what is "hateful" - mostly, it's what I already wrote - the sudden claim that when it comes a violent act by someone who happens to be Muslim, mental illness is now automatically ruled out by you folks. It makes no sense since it is clearly behind certain violent acts by non-Muslims. A Muslim can be psychotic, delusional, hearing voices, claiming God is telling him to do this, authorities can state that there are "significant mental health issues" (as in a recent case) and you will deny mental illness is a factor in that case solely on the basis of that person's religion. I like things to make sense, that does not. It's not like folks are attributing every violent act to mental illness.

wrong again----"mental illness as a factor" is absolutely not
even close to mental illness as a cause. Mental illness
is VERY VERY prevalent in the human population----most
crime is not CAUSED by mental illness. Al Capone had
neurosyphilis----want to blame his life of crime on that illness?

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

To some extent I agree with you - though not about being sent to prison but rather secure treatment facilities. I also do not believe in any surgical interventions. At one time, lobotomies were used and horribly abused. That was barbaric.

 

[irosie91]

wrong again----"mental illness as a factor" is absolutely not
even close to mental illness as a cause. Mental illness
is VERY VERY prevalent in the human population----most
crime is not CAUSED by mental illness. Al Capone had
neurosyphilis----want to blame his life of crime on that illness?

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

To some extent I agree with you - though not about being sent to prison but rather secure treatment facilities. I also do not believe in any surgical interventions. At one time, lobotomies were used and horribly abused. That was barbaric.

there are other surgical manipulations OTHER then subfrontal Lobotomy which never did anyone any good-------It is still possible that some USEFUL surgeries will be developed------OTHER conditions ----like "tics"---(a very big topic ---you would be amazed at that which fall into category of "tic"-----for example--
the syndrome of "Gilles de LaTourette" is----a "tic" sickness)

the site of "rage"----is sorta considered local to the temporal lobes-----and the amygdala. ??? probably right temporal lobe----(don't quote me). However "how to be a jihadist and
please allah" is a matter of NURTURE----not nature

 

[Mindful]

I like to know what's behind a writer or source.

As to what is "hateful" - mostly, it's what I already wrote - the sudden claim that when it comes a violent act by someone who happens to be Muslim, mental illness is now automatically ruled out by you folks. It makes no sense since it is clearly behind certain violent acts by non-Muslims. A Muslim can be psychotic, delusional, hearing voices, claiming God is telling him to do this, authorities can state that there are "significant mental health issues" (as in a recent case) and you will deny mental illness is a factor in that case solely on the basis of that person's religion. I like things to make sense, that does not. It's not like folks are attributing every violent act to mental illness.

wrong again----"mental illness as a factor" is absolutely not
even close to mental illness as a cause. Mental illness
is VERY VERY prevalent in the human population----most
crime is not CAUSED by mental illness. Al Capone had
neurosyphilis----want to blame his life of crime on that illness?

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

Do you think that Muslim guy who travelled all the way to Scotland to murder a Muslim shopkeeper in a religiously motivated attack, (even the BBC reported it that way) was mentally ill?

 

[irosie91]

wrong again----"mental illness as a factor" is absolutely not
even close to mental illness as a cause. Mental illness
is VERY VERY prevalent in the human population----most
crime is not CAUSED by mental illness. Al Capone had
neurosyphilis----want to blame his life of crime on that illness?

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

Do you think that Muslim guy who travelled all the way to Scotland to murder a Muslim shopkeeper in a religiously motivated attack, (even the BBC reported it that way) was mentally ill?

justifiably ENRAGED? -------kinda like a domestic
ENFLAGRANT DELICTO????? how do you
expect an allah-loving person to respond?

 

[Mindful]

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

Do you think that Muslim guy who travelled all the way to Scotland to murder a Muslim shopkeeper in a religiously motivated attack, (even the BBC reported it that way) was mentally ill?

justifiably ENRAGED? -------kinda like a domestic
ENFLAGRANT DELICTO????? how do you
expect an allah-loving person to respond?

He was upset that the guy had insulted Muhammed by recognising a second prophet.

 

[irosie91]

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

Do you think that Muslim guy who travelled all the way to Scotland to murder a Muslim shopkeeper in a religiously motivated attack, (even the BBC reported it that way) was mentally ill?

justifiably ENRAGED? -------kinda like a domestic
ENFLAGRANT DELICTO????? how do you
expect an allah-loving person to respond?

He was upset that the guy had insulted Muhammed by recognising a second prophet.

yes----now I remember-----JUSTIFIABLY ENRAGED-----it's a
defense

 

[Coyote]

Police: London stabbings that killed US woman not terrorism
Police said Thursday that it wasn't terrorism — but in a city on edge after a summer of attacks elsewhere in Europe, both authorities and London residents initially responded as if it were. Police flooded the streets with extra officers and mobilized counterterror detectives before saying the shocking burst of violence appeared to have been "triggered by mental-health issues."

...Knives are the most common murder weapon in Britain, which has strict gun-control laws. There were 186 knife killings in the year to March 2015, according to government statistics — a third of all murders.

Police work with mental health hospital over Russell Square suspect

....clearly mental health had nothing to do with this crime.

 

[irosie91]

Police: London stabbings that killed US woman not terrorism
Police said Thursday that it wasn't terrorism — but in a city on edge after a summer of attacks elsewhere in Europe, both authorities and London residents initially responded as if it were. Police flooded the streets with extra officers and mobilized counterterror detectives before saying the shocking burst of violence appeared to have been "triggered by mental-health issues."

...Knives are the most common murder weapon in Britain, which has strict gun-control laws. There were 186 knife killings in the year to March 2015, according to government statistics — a third of all murders.

Police work with mental health hospital over Russell Square suspect

....clearly mental health had nothing to do with this crime.

from coyote's citation re murderer ZAC

"I saw his mother with an ambulance outside their flat and she said Zac had called it because he wanted to hurt himself."

that's a first ---a "mentally ill" person called an ambulance---
because he wanted to kill himself <<<<<kinda counter productive. Sounds to me like the mother is nuts.

well ---its ok ---Coyote has the diagnosis nailed----over to
you Coyote-----of what "MENTAL ILLNESS" is little
Zac afflicted that accounts for his IRRESISTABLE URGE ---
to stick knives into people?

 

[Phoenall]

The thing you overlook is that daesh is islam as it was originally intended and is practised by the majority of muslims. If it was any other then the muslims would have risen up and eliminated the likes of daesh 100 years ago. They had the Jewish and Christian model to go on, and could have very easily instructed the followers to ignore the aspects of islam that involve violence and terrorism. It is islam as a whole that sucks in the mentally deranged as that is why it was invented in the first place, this is why certain verses were recited as they appealed to certain extreme groups that swelled the ranks of the muslims. The best example of this is the Satanic Verses that were aimed at a certain arab group that worshipped goddesses, once the group was assimilated the muslims tried to claim that it was satan overpowering God and telling mo'mad to recite his words.It takes very little intelligence to see through the muslims lies and even less to prove they are lies.

Actually, it isn't, and if you read a good biography of Mohammed, and had an understanding of the era you would realize that. There is no better Christian or Jewish model. Look at the history of those religions and the violence expressed in the OT. Ancient history was pretty rough.

What better biography could you get than the koran and hadiths, and these clearly state that islam is based on violence, terrorism and fear. He ordered thr mass murder of all 3 tribes of Israel that lived in medina, but because his numbers were so low he picked them of one by one. He commanded the muslims " KILL THE JEWS" and "KILL THE UNBELIEVER" many time in the koran and hadiths, and to get the full impact you need to read it an the abrogated manner it was recited. This means that the last verse of the middle surrah comes before the second verse of the first surrah.
Forget about the OT as that has been surmounted and is no longer followed by any main stream Jewish or Chriatian sect, and this is the first thing islamonazi propagandists bring up when the violent nature of the koran is entered in evidence. When was the last time a crazed Christian or Jew screamed God is Great when they slit the throat of an innocent child ?

 

[Phoenall]

wrong again----"mental illness as a factor" is absolutely not
even close to mental illness as a cause. Mental illness
is VERY VERY prevalent in the human population----most
crime is not CAUSED by mental illness. Al Capone had
neurosyphilis----want to blame his life of crime on that illness?

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

To some extent I agree with you - though not about being sent to prison but rather secure treatment facilities. I also do not believe in any surgical interventions. At one time, lobotomies were used and horribly abused. That was barbaric.

As barbaric as having a child raped repeatedly, disfigured, defiled tortured and finally murdered in the most deprived way possible by someone who could have been stopped by simply giving them a lobotomy. You sound just like the looney left greens who want everyone to run around naked and eat grass. They would rather see thousands die of starvation, disease and hypothermia than shear a sheep for its wool/.

 

[irosie91]

I'm not sure the distinction between "a factor" and "a cause" is always that clear. Also - there is a huge variation across the spectrum of the different mental illness' so it's not even very accurate to lump it together as if it were one disease.

If you're looking at "causes" - you're looking at a whole variety factors and sometimes the cause is the intersection of two or more of those factors rather than one.

For example, everyone want's immediately pin it on religion, but yet there are millions of followers of a religion who don't go and run down innocent people with a truck, or blow up abortion clinics.

There are also millions of mentally ill people who never commit a violent act.

If a person is suffering from an untreated mental illness - what does his world look like? If he delusional or hearing voices - what are those voices telling him and how capable is he of sorting them out? What do ordinary people look like to him? Are they looming, menacing and evil? How frightening is the world to someone in a psychotic state - especially someone from a culture or family background that doesn't recognize it as an illness or someone so paranoid he refuses treatment?

I agree - it is a factor, often one of many. NAMI wrote an article on mental illness and violence that pointed out what increased the risk for violent behavior in conjunction with mental illness:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Violence and Gun Reporting Laws and Mental Health
Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. Research on the relationship between mental illness and violence shows that there are certain factors that may increase risks of violence among a small number of individuals with mental illness. These factors include:

• Co-occurring abuse of alcohol or illegal drugs
• Past history of violence
• Being young and male
• Untreated psychosis

The best way to reduce this risk is through treatment. Yet fewer than one-third of adults and half of children with a diagnosed mental illness receive mental health services in a given year.

you are right----all criminals should be released from jail----
because I would have no problem in FINDING a psychiatric
diagnosis for anyone. There was a big storm crisis----street people DYING of exposure----I found a diagnosis ----just to keep them in the lobby with a meal tray

Where did you come up with that crazy idea? But - people who truly have a mental illness diagnosis of a one of the major diseases like schitzophrenia do not belong in jail. That is the worst place for them to be. Jails are not equipt to handle them and they often end up there on substance abuse, vagrancy, or public nuisance charges. If they commit a violent crime - they need to be in a secure facility that can keep them confined and properly medicated.

If they are a danger to others then they need to be locked away for the safety of others. Far too many mentally ill people stop taking the medication prescribed because they dont feel in control, they know that they are breaking the law by doing so and should be sent to prison when they become a danger. A repeat offence should see them locked away for life in a specialist prison, and surgical intervention used to control them.

I will repeat my mantra what is better to inconvenience 1 person or to see 10 children murdered. As a worst case scenario a mother and her children are deported because of a crime and the children are handed to her husband who is the criminal. The lives of thousands have been saved by her deportation, but hers is in jeapourdy. Is this not a fair outcome

To some extent I agree with you - though not about being sent to prison but rather secure treatment facilities. I also do not believe in any surgical interventions. At one time, lobotomies were used and horribly abused. That was barbaric.

As barbaric as having a child raped repeatedly, disfigured, defiled tortured and finally murdered in the most deprived way possible by someone who could have been stopped by simply giving them a lobotomy. You sound just like the looney left greens who want everyone to run around naked and eat grass. They would rather see thousands die of starvation, disease and hypothermia than shear a sheep for its wool/.

I have never heard of LOBOTOMY as a treatment for sexual offenders and not even sure it would work for that purpose. Castration seems MORE TO THE POINT