Assassinating American Citizens ... for or against?

[G.T.]

I want this woman to answer an honest question:

He was killed in the Bombing of an al-quada hideout in the Yemen Mountains. Do you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with a member of an enemy organization being killed in a military action against said organization.

I have a problem with an American citizen being specifically targeted for death without due process.

^this.

It's kind of redundant. He's a communications leader in a war, residing with the enemy. gee, what would a rational Military do?

 

[8537]

I don't like the idea at all - I can understand the decision in this case, but it's an awful precedent to set.

We set the precedent in the 1860's.

Mike

We "set" it during the war of 1812. But that doesn't mean we need to follow or confirm it in 2011.

Everyone's ra-rah about killing US citizens...until the government decides to use such authority to kill an American citizen we like.

I'd prefer they not have such authority. Due process has treated us well for 220 years.

 

[Texanmike]

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Personally I think you're wrong and you are fishing for boogey men in this case. If you declare war on us you are resigning your citizenship as it is an act of treason. To be quite honest, answer this. Was he not outside the Jurisdiction of the Federal Government? He was in a war, having declared war on the US.

Apparently this alleged 'policy' doesn't sand up Amelia's vagina quite like a neg rep!

You are so full of yourself.



I care about the constitution. You neg rep me for it. You don't like my answer. So now you come here to talk about rep?

He's a tool. I agree with him on a lot of things but he's a drama queen. Kind of embarassed that he's on my side on some issues. Almost like the racist at a political rally. You just wish they would go home.


Mike

 

[G.T.]

I don't like the idea at all - I can understand the decision in this case, but it's an awful precedent to set.

We set the precedent in the 1860's.

Mike

We "set" it during the war of 1812. But that doesn't mean we need to follow or confirm it in 2011.

Everyone's ra-rah about killing US citizens...until the government decides to use such authority to kill an American citizen we like.

I'd prefer they not have such authority. Due process has treated us well for 220 years.

He gave them the authority by bunkering up with the enemy. Chilling right in their living room, voluntarily, and becoming a leader in their cause to destroy our country.

This is not that difficult of a decision.

 

[8537]

I don't have a problem with a member of an enemy organization being killed in a military action against said organization.

I have a problem with an American citizen being specifically targeted for death without due process.

^this.

It's kind of redundant. He's a communications leader in a war, residing with the enemy. gee, what would a rational Military do?

I understand that - and I also completely understand why we did what we did in this case. The military is for fighting foreign enemies. We don't target US citizens with the military

 

[manifold]

According to Amelia Bedelia's nonsensical standard, all Al Qaida has to do is recruit American citizens and place one at every hideout they have, and we wouldn't be able to bomb them.

How fucking retarded is that? Seriously?

Bullshit. That's not what I am saying.

Actually, it's exactly what you're saying. You're just too stupid and/or partisanly blinded to realize it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Stay away from Al Qaeda hide outs, and you won't have anything to worry about.

 

[Amelia]

We're going after the hideouts regardless if he's there or not, get your head out of your ass.

And even if he were being targeted, he's a LEADER in the enemy organization that WE'RE AT WAR WITH.

Do you think war is funny? Think it's cute? Think it's ok to literally pack your bags and move to the middle east and become a LEADER for the ENEMY, in a WAR against your Country, and not be targeted? <-- that's insanity. You're being obtuse and irrational and you're kicking dirt on the people who defend this Country from scum who are AT WAR with us.

Please tell me the difference - as you know it - between an Enemy Combatant, and a Criminal.

When Obama first took heat for putting this guy on his hit list, he said he was considering indicting the guy. He didn't follow through with it. He should have.

You don't put Americans on hit lists without due process. Not and claim to have any constitutional leg to stand on.



We can be happy that a terrorist is taken out but we should not be so glib about this violation of a citizen's constitutional rights to due process. That's how lines get blurred and then obliterated. Set the precedent with someone who is universally disliked knowing that few will complain. And then apply it for shakier and shakier things later. There will be nothing anyone right or left can legitimately say against it, if they don't stand up for the constitution now.

 

[G.T.]

^this.

It's kind of redundant. He's a communications leader in a war, residing with the enemy. gee, what would a rational Military do?

I understand that - and I also completely understand why we did what we did in this case. The military is for fighting foreign enemies. We don't target US citizens with the military

We do if they're sitting with the opposing force.

 

[G.T.]

We're going after the hideouts regardless if he's there or not, get your head out of your ass.

And even if he were being targeted, he's a LEADER in the enemy organization that WE'RE AT WAR WITH.

Do you think war is funny? Think it's cute? Think it's ok to literally pack your bags and move to the middle east and become a LEADER for the ENEMY, in a WAR against your Country, and not be targeted? <-- that's insanity. You're being obtuse and irrational and you're kicking dirt on the people who defend this Country from scum who are AT WAR with us.

Please tell me the difference - as you know it - between an Enemy Combatant, and a Criminal.

When Obama first took heat for putting this guy on his hit list, he said he was considering indicting the guy. He didn't follow through with it. He should have.

You don't put Americans on hit lists without due process. Not and claim to have any constitutional leg to stand on.



We can be happy that a terrorist is taken out but we should not be so glib about this violation of a citizen's constitutional rights to due process. That's how lines get blurred and then obliterated. Set the precedent with someone who is universally disliked knowing that few will complain. And then apply it for shakier and shakier things later. There will be nothing anyone right or left can legitimately say against it, if they don't stand up for the constitution now.

No lines got blurred. You're being purposefully obtuse. This was a cut and dry case of declaring war, declaring with the enemy, and subsequently residing with the enemy.

In a war, when you do that, no trial is necessary. Once you openly declare war on the United States, you have revoked your citizenship via declaring your own treason - - which is a VOLUNTARY bipass of a Treason Trial.

It's a cut and dry case, there's no worries about the precedent. They got it right.

 

[High_Gravity]

^this.

It's kind of redundant. He's a communications leader in a war, residing with the enemy. gee, what would a rational Military do?

I understand that - and I also completely understand why we did what we did in this case. The military is for fighting foreign enemies. We don't target US citizens with the military

All enemies, foreign and domestic. Just because this asshole happened to come out of a vagina on American soil doesn't give him a free pass to do what he wants.

 

[High_Gravity]

I can't believe people here want to give this guy a free pass just because he happened to be born here.

 

[manifold]

I can't believe people here want to give this guy a free pass just because he happened to be born here.

It makes him worse IMO.

 

[Valerie]

Way to sympathize with terrorists who plot to kill innocents!

SANA, Yemen &#8212; Anwar al-Awlaki, the radical American-born cleric who was a leading figure in Al Qaeda&#8217;s Yemen affiliate and was considered its most dangerous English-speaking propagandist and plotter, was killed in an American drone strike that deliberately targeted his vehicle on Friday, officials in Washington and Yemen said. They said the strike also killed a radical American colleague traveling with Mr. Awlaki who edited Al Qaeda&#8217;s online jihadist magazine.


Mr. Awlaki was an important member of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, regarded as the most dangerous Al Qaeda affiliate. He was considered the inspirational or operational force behind a number of major plots aimed at killing Americans in the United States in recent years, most notably the deadly assault at an American army base in Fort Hood, Texas, and attempts to bomb Times Square and a Detroit-bound jetliner.

&#8220;The death of Awlaki is a major blow to Al Qaeda&#8217;s most active operational affiliate,&#8221; President Obama said in remarks at a swearing-in ceremony for the new Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, outside Washington. Mr. Obama said the cleric had taken &#8220;the lead role in planning and directing the efforts to murder innocent Americans.&#8221;

Mr. Obama also called Mr. Awlaki &#8220;the leader of external operations for Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula&#8221; &#8212; the first time the United States has used that description of him.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/w...is-killed-in-yemen.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=world

Anwar al-Awlaki&#8217;s Suspected Ties to Terror Plots

Oct, 29, 2010

* Chicago, Attempted Cargo BombingsPowerful bombs concealed inside two cargo packages and destined for Jewish targets in Chicago were shipped from Yemen and intercepted in October 2010 in Britain and Dubai. Mr. Awlaki is suspected of helping plan the plot.



May 1, 2010

* New York City, Attempted Car BombingFaisal Shahzad tried to detonated a car bomb in Times Square. Mr. Shazad pleaded guilty in the plot and told investigators that he was inspired by Mr. Awlaki.


Dec. 25, 2009

* Detroit, Attempted Airliner BombingMr. Awlaki said that he taught and corresponded with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who is charged with attempting to detonate explosives sewn into his underwear aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 253 as it landed in Detroit. The bomb did not explode.


Nov. 5, 2009

* Fort Hood, Tex., Mass ShootingMaj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist who is accused of killing 13 people in a mass shooting that took place on Nov. 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, Tex., had been investigated by the F.B.I. before the attack for exchanging emails with Mr. Awlaki between December 2008 and June 2009.


May 8, 2007

*Fort Dix, N.J., Planned AttackSeveral of the five men convicted for planning an attack on Fort Dix, N.J., said they were inspired by Mr. Awlaki's lectures.


June 2, 2006

*Toronto, Planned AttacksThe 18 people arrested for planning attacks in Toronto had watched online videos of Mr. Awlaki during their group training.


July 7, 2005

*London, Transit BombingsFour suicide bombers who targeted the city&#8217;s mass transit system at rush hour had been followers of Mr. Awlaki&#8216;s lectures.

Anwar al-Awlaki?s Suspected Ties to Terror Plots - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

 

[WorldWatcher]

According to Amelia Bedelia's nonsensical standard, all Al Qaida has to do is recruit American citizens and place one at every hideout they have, and we wouldn't be able to bomb them.

How fucking retarded is that? Seriously?

Bullshit. That's not what I am saying.

I'm just saying your reason for going after the hideouts should not be that you are specifically targeting the American citizens inside without due process.


When you have to twist someone's position to try to justify your tirade against the person that shows the weakness of your position.






Fifth Amendment:

No person shall .... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; ....

Amelia,

What the targeting of the stronghold because the individual was the head of an international terrorist organization at war with the United States or was the targeting because he was an American Citizen? There is a difference.



Now to your question.

United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."​

We need two witness that have give testimony that he committed treasonous acts. I bet we have that.


United States Code Title 18 § 2381. Treason

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. "​

So now we've affixed the death penalty for committing treason.




That sounds good to me. WorldWatcher approves of the bombing of a terrorist hideout with a treasonous murder contained within.



>>>>

 

[G.T.]

According to Amelia Bedelia's nonsensical standard, all Al Qaida has to do is recruit American citizens and place one at every hideout they have, and we wouldn't be able to bomb them.

How fucking retarded is that? Seriously?

Bullshit. That's not what I am saying.

I'm just saying your reason for going after the hideouts should not be that you are specifically targeting the American citizens inside without due process.


When you have to twist someone's position to try to justify your tirade against the person that shows the weakness of your position.






Fifth Amendment:

No person shall .... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; ....

Amelia,

What the targeting of the stronghold because the individual was the head of an international terrorist organization at war with the United States or was the targeting because he was an American Citizen? There is a difference.



Now to your question.

United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."​

We need two witness that have give testimony that he committed treasonous acts. I bet we have that.


United States Code Title 18 § 2381. Treason

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. "​

So now we've affixed the death penalty for committing treason.




That sounds good to me. WorldWatcher approves of the bombing of a terrorist hideout with a treasonous murder contained within.



>>>>

We don't need the two witnesses because of this part: "or confession on an open court."

We have all kinds of videos, and further he was at an al quada hideout. What's more to confess? He was guilty of treason, subject to death.

 

[Amelia]

Amelia,

What the targeting of the stronghold because the individual was the head of an international terrorist organization at war with the United States or was the targeting because he was an American Citizen? There is a difference.



Now to your question.

United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."​

We need two witness that have give testimony that he committed treasonous acts. I bet we have that.


United States Code Title 18 § 2381. Treason

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. "​

So now we've affixed the death penalty for committing treason.




That sounds good to me. WorldWatcher approves of the bombing of a terrorist hideout with a treasonous murder contained within.



>>>>

Thank you for your reasoned post, WW. I can't be mad at you today.


However, I think we should have taken him to court. Put those witnesses on the record. With cross examination by someone representing the defendant. Get a verdict.

We didn't do it right.


And hardly anyone seems to mind. <--- this scares me.

 

[Valerie]

Amelia,

What the targeting of the stronghold because the individual was the head of an international terrorist organization at war with the United States or was the targeting because he was an American Citizen? There is a difference.



Now to your question.

United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."​

We need two witness that have give testimony that he committed treasonous acts. I bet we have that.


United States Code Title 18 § 2381. Treason

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. "​

So now we've affixed the death penalty for committing treason.




That sounds good to me. WorldWatcher approves of the bombing of a terrorist hideout with a treasonous murder contained within.



>>>>

Thank you for your reasoned post, WW. I can't be mad at you today.


However, I think we should have taken him to court. Put those witnesses on the record. With cross examination by someone representing the defendant. Get a verdict.







We didn't do it right.


And hardly anyone seems to mind. <--- this scares me.

Did you hear about the new Japanese restaurant all the young lawyers have been going to for lunch...........?

















It's called so-sue-me!

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm for killing terrorists after a warrant for their arrest has been issued and ample time for them to turn themselves in has passed.

The hypocrisy on the left is stunning. The old "make love not war" and stick a flower in a rifle barrel was just political B.S. The left wants to kill people and break things just like everyone else as long as they have a radical left wing administration but the freaking cowards don't want to get their feet wet.

You're really very stupid, whitehall. Very, very stupid.

 

[Douger]

Yep. The people that support terruh. That would be the taxpayers.